Help: Vengeance Paladin stat spread after rolling

[Xciaphas]

I'm struggling with a stat spread on a new character and would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance!

We're starting Curse of Strahd at 3rd level and we rolled for stats. My idea was to play an Oath of Vengeance but rolled the very inconvenient (in my opinion) 15, 13, 13, 11, 11, 9. Now I'm conflicted if a Paladin build is worth it or if I should go a different class entirely. Our Great Old One warlock (pact of the chain) rolled very well and we also have a bard. The other two players are undecided.

I was thinking of doing Variant Human with the following spread and going for Polearm Master at lvl 1, GWM at 4 and Resilient for that +1 Con at 8. Maybe not the most charismatic or tough guy, but he would still pack a punch. Another variant is to get Resilient at lvl 1 and PAM or GWM at 4 (PAM really locks you into 1 weapon but our DM usually changes the drops to mach our builds).
Str: 16
Con: 13
Dex: 11
Int: 9
Wis: 11
Cha: 14

But I'm worried about my low Charisma. Is it viable to play a paladin with such a low main stat?

Other options are for normal human Light Cleric, or V Human divination wizard with Lucky for the ultimate troll but that really puts pressure on our other two members to make a front line. Battlemaster Fighter with PAM, Sentinel and GWM is also doable, or eldritch knight.

So my question is, would a spread like that make for an effective damage dealer ( I plan to ration my slots and rely on Hunter's mark for extra damage)? Should I focus on the PAM or go GWM first? Should I just go a completely different class and not torture myself and the others by forcing the paladin?

Thanks in advance!

[UnintensifiedFa]

First of all, Paladins don’t need super high charisma to dish out damage. It’s primarily a spell-casting stat and the primary use of spell slots on Paladins is divine smite which is totally stat-independent.

Second, have you considered half elf? It would put you back a feat, but you could start out with 16 15 14. In str cha con. If you really are looking at PAM, then this isn’t necessarily as good, but it does give you better cha if that’s really a worry for you.

[CTurbo]

If I were making that character, I would skip the GWM and probably take Res(Con) at 4 and bump +2 Cha at level 8. You don't really NEED both PAM and GWM and if you want both I would consider playing a Fighter instead.

[Rara1212]

Half-Elf is also really good for getting Elven-Accuracy if you wanna make a Dex Paladin, that way you can bump cha/dex at 4, and get 16dex, 14con & 16cha. Coupled with advantage from your channel divinity you can dish out some serious single target damage.

[Xciaphas]

Thanks for the replies.

@UnintensifiedFa
I'm trying to move away from half-elf for the moment as my recent characters have both been half-elves. Seems you have a point though, unless I want to go for save spells, Charisma only influences Divine Sense usage and prepared spells. 14 should be fine.

As for feats, I'm really conflicted on whether to go GWM or PAM, and then only pick up Resilient Con. I feel like the stats don't allow for more but then it's a question of which is more useful. I'm trying to build a damaging character that also provides useful support (ergo paladin, plus the rp potential for a paladin in Curse of Strahd, wow).

PAM allows for more hits but we get Extra Attack in 2 levels, which is not that far off (the 1 attack from lvl 1 to 5 is where martial classes feel the worst to me). On the other hand, there are lots of bonus actions that could be done, Hunter's Mark in particular seems like a very cost-efficient way to use slots for damage and it's a bonus action. So is Misty Step and Vow of Enmity. The DM has ruled that drinking a potion is a bonus action as well.

GWM on the other hand is only truly useful if there is advantage because unless I get +2 Strength at 4, whenever I take the -5 penalty I would have to just roll a straight d20 (until proficiency gets higher at lvl 5 and lvl 9). The second part of the feature could show up in fights against many small enemies and seems useful but still I feel like, if there was support from the party, like a frequent Bless caster or Faerie Fire caster, GWM would be ok even with the penalty.

Then there is level 11 and Improved Divine Smite, which to me seems to be more beneficial with PAM.

So it seems to me that the choice is between PAM and GWM. And I'm stumped.

[KRSW]

I would just like to point out that your rolled stats are actually slightly worse than point buy stats, the total comes out to 26 points. Do you have the worst stats out of the rest of your players? I am just wondering.

Anyways, it looks like you have a total of 3 players including yourself. In a small party I would try to be as powerful as possible and play either a Paladin or Cleric. GWM is great, but I think for your stats if playing a Paladin you should take only PAM and pump Strength. Variant Human is great, if available you can look at Scourge Aasimar as well.

A really good point for PAM is actually the reaction attack which you can make A LOT if your party plays around you having that feat.

[CTurbo]

Thanks for the replies.

@UnintensifiedFa
I'm trying to move away from half-elf for the moment as my recent characters have both been half-elves. Seems you have a point though, unless I want to go for save spells, Charisma only influences Divine Sense usage and prepared spells. 14 should be fine.

As for feats, I'm really conflicted on whether to go GWM or PAM, and then only pick up Resilient Con. I feel like the stats don't allow for more but then it's a question of which is more useful. I'm trying to build a damaging character that also provides useful support (ergo paladin, plus the rp potential for a paladin in Curse of Strahd, wow).

PAM allows for more hits but we get Extra Attack in 2 levels, which is not that far off (the 1 attack from lvl 1 to 5 is where martial classes feel the worst to me). On the other hand, there are lots of bonus actions that could be done, Hunter's Mark in particular seems like a very cost-efficient way to use slots for damage and it's a bonus action. So is Misty Step and Vow of Enmity. The DM has ruled that drinking a potion is a bonus action as well.

GWM on the other hand is only truly useful if there is advantage because unless I get +2 Strength at 4, whenever I take the -5 penalty I would have to just roll a straight d20 (until proficiency gets higher at lvl 5 and lvl 9). The second part of the feature could show up in fights against many small enemies and seems useful but still I feel like, if there was support from the party, like a frequent Bless caster or Faerie Fire caster, GWM would be ok even with the penalty.

Then there is level 11 and Improved Divine Smite, which to me seems to be more beneficial with PAM.

So it seems to me that the choice is between PAM and GWM. And I'm stumped.


PAM is a no brainer over GWM in my opinion. Paladins already deal a huge amount of damage so GWM is not really necessary. Plus you're looking at being stuck with a 16 Str at the very least until level 8 if not level 12 if you want both PAM/GWM. I wouldn't want GWM on a 16 Str character except for maybe a Barb that can always have advantage. GWM is not worth it to use with VoE only. PAM is a great no risk high reward feat and is perfect for Paladins. A level 11 Paladin with PAM is hitting very hard very consistently.

As far as Charisma goes, don't forget it also helps your Aura of Protection which is, IMO, the best Paladin ability. +1 might not seem like much but +3 is a 50% boost over +2. This is huge in a CoS campaign.

but leaving Cha low and boosting Str will work too if you want. I played a Paladin that had 13 Cha until level 8 and it worked out. My guy didn't know or use any spells though(my rp choice) so he was all Smite all the time. It worked just fine. It just would have been better with a better Aura, and is the only reason I even bumped it to 14.