Battle Master Questions

[Nagog]

So I was looking through the Battle Master Maneuvers (I'm thinking of taking Martial Adept for one of my builds), and while they look like great choices and effects for a class that is otherwise very straightforward and blunt mechanically, the fact that many of them rely on the enemy failing a Str save feels kinda... Bad. Early on it's not bad against the enemies you typically face, but as you level up (and the DC of your maneuvers gets higher), the enemies you typically use these limited resources on tend to have much higher Str than the Goblins and Kobolds you were grinding when you first got your Superiority Dice. Is that an accurate assessment, or am I missing something? If I'm correct, what is it that makes Battle Masters viable late-game vs things like Eldritch Knight or Champion?

[NecessaryWeevil]

This was never much of a concern for me, but then I tended to be more interested in things like Goading Attack (which targets Wis). Just like a caster, you'll do better if you select maneuvers which target a variety of saves.

[KRSW]

Just spamming GWM with Precision Attack is a totally viable tactic to use all of your superiority die for.

[Misterwhisper]

An archer with menacing attack is a monster to deal with.

Precision is your bread and butter, the rest is situational.

If, and I mean big if, you ever decide to take martial adept, max out your str or dex and get your combat feat first.

[KRSW]

An archer with menacing attack is a monster to deal with.

Precision is your bread and butter, the rest is situational.

If, and I mean big if, you ever decide to take martial adept, max out your str or dex and get your combat feat first.


I second this, Martial Adept isn't all that great to begin with. Battlemaster is great though.

[Nagog]

Just spamming GWM with Precision Attack is a totally viable tactic to use all of your superiority die for.

But doesn't that get kinda boring after like, 2 battles? I'm interested in Battlemaster because if it's versatility and to break the monotony of "Fighter, it's your turn." "Ok, I attack x number of times. Done."

[Nagog]

An archer with menacing attack is a monster to deal with.

Precision is your bread and butter, the rest is situational.

If, and I mean big if, you ever decide to take martial adept, max out your str or dex and get your combat feat first.


I second this, Martial Adept isn't all that great to begin with. Battlemaster is great though.

I'm thinking of applying it to my Hobgoblin Raven Queen BladeLock. It's definitely not an optimized build to begin with, but the purpose of the character is to help the DM and a few of the players get a taste of the variety to be found in D&D (First-time DM and a large number of players are new), and one of the new players is a Battle Master that hasn't really used any of his abilities rather than attacking, so I hope to kinda show him some of the things he's capable of in-play, then have him out-shine me doing them and really get into the meat of his class.

[KRSW]

Well, it may get boring in some aspects but does saying "I would like to Rage and Reckless Attack GWM both attacks" get boring? Its fairly similar to what the Fighter can do. In my opinion, having the DM let you narrate what your character does for his maneuvers is a lot of what makes Battlemaster and also a lot of the other martial characters fun.

Good tactics: GWM every attack (if you have Superiority Die and Precision Attack), if you hit first attack in a round and the target probably has either an average or below average strength save, trip attack. If they fail their save and you think they are a worthy target: Action Surge and GWM 3 more attacks.

In my opinion, that is the ideal round as a Battlemaster fighter.

All maneuvers have a time and a place, but Trip Attack and Precision Attack are pretty much always useful.

Another thing is, I actually rather enjoy mental math and estimating enemy ACs and deciding whether it is worth using GWM or not. For example, the battlemaster player can ask the DM what the enemy's armor looks like, if they have a shield etc, and then estimate the ballpark of what their AC should be. I usually don't GWM vs enemies with shields.

[Misterwhisper]

Well, it may get boring in some aspects but does saying "I would like to Rage and Reckless Attack GWM both attacks" get boring? Its fairly similar to what the Fighter can do. In my opinion, having the DM let you narrate what your character does for his maneuvers is a lot of what makes Battlemaster and also a lot of the other martial characters fun.

Good tactics: GWM every attack, if you hit first attack in a round and the target probably has either an average or below average strength save, trip attack. If they fail their save and you think they are a worthy target: Action Surge and GWM 3 more attacks.

In my opinion, that is the ideal round as a Battlemaster fighter.

All maneuvers have a time and a place, but Trip Attack and Precision Attack are pretty much always useful.

I think they make much better archers than melee.

Distant opponent:

menacing shot, now they can’t close on you and have disadvantage unless they move to break line of sight

Trip if they are in melee with a teammate, Or goading attack if they are engaged with someone else.

Tripping attack on fliers is solid gold.

Most of their best maneuvers are only weapon attacks, not melee attacks.

My only debate was longbow or hand crossbow.

[KRSW]

I think they make much better archers than melee.

Distant opponent:

menacing shot, now they can’t close on you and have disadvantage unless they move to break line of sight

Trip if they are in melee with a teammate, Or goading attack if they are engaged with someone else.

Tripping attack on fliers is solid gold.

Most of their best maneuvers are only weapon attacks, not melee attacks.

My only debate was longbow or hand crossbow.

That's true. All good points, for my taste though I would rather play a Samurai Archer over a Battlemaster Archer.

[Misterwhisper]

That's true. All good points, for my taste though I would rather play a Samurai Archer over a Battlemaster Archer.

I always wanted to try a mounted combatant but never through it would be worth the investment considering most of the time you probably can’t have the mount with you.

[Nagog]

Well, it may get boring in some aspects but does saying "I would like to Rage and Reckless Attack GWM both attacks" get boring? Its fairly similar to what the Fighter can do. In my opinion, having the DM let you narrate what your character does for his maneuvers is a lot of what makes Battlemaster and also a lot of the other martial characters fun.

Good tactics: GWM every attack (if you have Superiority Die and Precision Attack), if you hit first attack in a round and the target probably has either an average or below average strength save, trip attack. If they fail their save and you think they are a worthy target: Action Surge and GWM 3 more attacks.

In my opinion, that is the ideal round as a Battlemaster fighter.

All maneuvers have a time and a place, but Trip Attack and Precision Attack are pretty much always useful.

Another thing is, I actually rather enjoy mental math and estimating enemy ACs and deciding whether it is worth using GWM or not. For example, the battlemaster player can ask the DM what the enemy's armor looks like, if they have a shield etc, and then estimate the ballpark of what their AC should be. I usually don't GWM vs enemies with shields.

I may be mistaken, but can't you only use 1 Maneuver per round?

[Protolisk]

I may be mistaken, but can't you only use 1 Maneuver per round?

It's one maneuver per attack. So the higher level you go to use more attacks, and get bonus action or reaction attacks, the more chances to use a maneuver.

However, this means you can't stack Precision with any other maneuver on a single attack.

[Nagog]

It's one maneuver per attack. So the higher level you go to use more attacks, and get bonus action or reaction attacks, the more chances to use a maneuver.

However, this means you can't stack Precision with any other maneuver on a single attack.
Oh, good to know!


I always wanted to try a mounted combatant but never through it would be worth the investment considering most of the time you probably can’t have the mount with you.

You could always play a small race and have a medium pet/animal companion to use as a mount. For example, a large dog/wolf could work for a halfling. And a Halfling in full samurai plate riding a white wolf has some really cool aesthetic synergy.

[KRSW]

It's one maneuver per attack. So the higher level you go to use more attacks, and get bonus action or reaction attacks, the more chances to use a maneuver.

However, this means you can't stack Precision with any other maneuver on a single attack.

Yes, this. I should have worded my reply better. I meant that you should just hold precision attack, but if you hit anyway without it then you can make the choice to trip.

[Protolisk]

Additionally, some creatures are immune to the Frightened effect of Menacing Attack. In these cases, it pays off for a ranged fighter to also know Goading Attack, to still inflict disadvantage on the all of the targets attack, except against you, but if you are ranged it might be too difficult for the enemy to reach you. Both Menacing and Goading work of Wis saves, so they are equally useful.

Second, know that for nearly all maneuvers that require a hit, it's only "when you hit" not "when you attack". This means you don't spend the maneuver until after you know you are going to deal at least some damage, unlike spells which you pay the slot cost up front and it might fail. The few "attack" style maneuvers that don't require "when you hit" are Lunging, so it gives you reach in order to actually hit the enemy, and Precision, which you still get to spend after you see your number that you rolled, so you can decide that the 10 you rolled plus whatever bonuses you get (Dex/Str, prof bonus, maybe a -5 from GWM or Sharpshooter) will be enough or will you take the safe bet and go precision. It puts a lot more safety nets for the Battle Master than other resource based classes.

As another idea, remember that for any save an Eldritch Knight needs to use, they needed to pump their Int score. The Battle Master's attack stat and "casting" stat are the same thing, so their saves scale a lot faster than the equivalent Eldritch Knight. For those who'd say that not all of the Eldritch Knight's spells require a save, neither do all of the Battle Master's maneuvers, and the Battle Master is still wholly short rest based, while the Eldritch Knights spells and the Samurai's Fighting Spirit charges need long rests to recharge.

[KRSW]

Second, know that for nearly all maneuvers that require a hit, it's only "when you hit" not "when you attack". This means you don't spend the maneuver until after you know you are going to deal at least some damage, unlike spells which you pay the slot cost up front and it might fail. The few "attack" style maneuvers that don't require "when you hit" are Lunging, so it gives you reach in order to actually hit the enemy, and Precision, which you still get to spend after you see your number that you rolled, so you can decide that the 10 you rolled plus whatever bonuses you get (Dex/Str, prof bonus, maybe a -5 from GWM or Sharpshooter) will be enough or will you take the safe bet and go precision. It puts a lot more safety nets for the Battle Master than other resource based classes.

This is a great summary of why the Battlemaster is good. One thing to add is turning a miss into a hit with precision attack provides far more damage than any other maneuver outside of having someone fail their trip attack save giving you advantage on the rest of your attacks (presumably allowing you to hit with GWM more frequently where it would have otherwise missed).