Simplifying Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization

[BlackOnyx]

Hey all. Looking for a little feedback on my thoughts.


I've been shopping around for some alternate methods of running weapon focus/specialization at my table for a while now. In the process, I've come to realize that (to me at least) they seem to be a bit more trouble than they're worth.


One feat for one weapon? Just to meet a prereq for something else, more often than not?


Nobody likes to swallow that pill.


That in mind, my thought is this--what if the big four (Focus, Greater Focus, Specialization, & Greater Specialization) instead applied to one of two categories:


(A) Melee: Any STR based attack (or STR analogue)


(B) Ranged: Any DEX based attack (or DEX analogue)


I find the simplicity of narrowing things down to two groups enticing, but I don't have quite enough experience with martial builds to pull the trigger on it.


Are there any glaring holes/issues that simplifying to this extent might create?

[DeTess]

I think the biggest issue is that there are melee Dex weapons when someone has weapon finesse, otherwise this is fine. Weapon focus and its ilk are generally conspired to be pretty bad feats only useful as prereqs. Another way you could approach this issue is to give the feats a clause similar to what warblades get with their weapon aptitude feature (so with 1 hour of practice you could swap the weapon your weapon focus feat applies to).

[BlackOnyx]

I think the biggest issue is that there are melee Dex weapons when someone has weapon finesse, otherwise this is fine.


Fair. Perhaps "melee" and "ranged" (at least by themselves) might not be the best titles for each category. Maybe something more like Melee (Power) and Ranged (Finesse)?


I imagine Weapon Finesse attacks would likely fall under the latter ("ranged") and Brutal Throw attacks the former ("melee").

[DrMotives]

In this scenario, a double weapon is still both to specialize in, as you can two-hand choke on a single side of it, or it becomes a 1-handed plus a light off-hand with using both ends at once.

I think a better way is to reduce the number of feats for any given weapon. Most characters aren't swiss army knives, swapping out different weapons over the course of their career. Just make it so that weapon focus gives a +1 bonus to attack at BAB +1, and at BAB +4 also adds the damage bonus. The improved focus & specialization also collapse to a single feat. Or make all 4 of them a single feat, with BAB-based benefits kicking in. But still, let that feat be picked once per weapon. So an archer picks weapon focus (longbow), etc

[Trandir]

Well as far as I know most PC's are built to use one weapon and maybe a backup one.

So broading "weapon X" influence will not solve the problem of": this feat is just a prerequisite.
My suggestion for that is to add those feats as class features for martial classes.
At which level they should get it is everyone quess, I would do one at 3th level and one more every 2 levels after untill 9th level with a total of 4 feats (fighter gets one feat every level for 10 levels this way that class deserve some love).

If you just want to concentrate the feat yes that solution works, probably doesn't change the general opinion on them but now a ninja gets +1 while using kunai, daggers, swords, bows and the occasional short sword with just one feat.

[Psyren]

I think applying it to any Str-based attack at all is too broad. The idea is that it represents extra training/talent with a type of weapon. It also enables things like Weapon Style Feats or a Warpriest's Sacred Weapon, for which its purpose as a tax/entry fee is intended.

If I wanted to make it broader than a single weapon but narrower than any melee attack, I'd go for applying it to a fighter weapon group. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/Fighter/#Weapon_Training_Ex)

[pabelfly]

There are lots of feats and even a few classes like Exotic Weapon Master scattered throughout the various books of 3.5 that focus only on buffing one weapon type. Which makes sense to me, weapons in real-life are used in different ways depending on their design and it took lots of practice to be proficient with a weapon.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Have you considered having Weapon Focus apply to every weapon in a certain Weapon Group (Pathfinder concept) and then keeping Specialization but upgrading it a bit? That way if someone puts that Focus into Light Blades and Specializes in rapiers they still get a bonus with daggers

[MesiDoomstalker]

For my own games, I've rolled all 4 feats into 1 feat (Weapon Focus), applied it to Weapon Groups like others have said and made the benefit based on BAB+Combat Bonus Feats. The values are such that any full BAB character will get the full benefit (eventually) but a Fighter gets the benefits at the same level the RAW feats would be available. +7, +14 and +19, I believe are the values I came up with for Specialization, Greater Focus and Greater Specialization respectively.

[BlackOnyx]

Well as far as I know most PC's are built to use one weapon and maybe a backup one.


I think applying it to any Str-based attack at all is too broad. The idea is that it represents extra training/talent with a type of weapon. It also enables things like Weapon Style Feats or a Warpriest's Sacred Weapon, for which its purpose as a tax/entry fee is intended.


There are lots of feats and even a few classes like Exotic Weapon Master scattered throughout the various books of 3.5 that focus only on buffing one weapon type. Which makes sense to me, weapons in real-life are used in different ways depending on their design and it took lots of practice to be proficient with a weapon.


Good call; at its core, 3.5e's big sell is variety. Limiting players to one of two options solely for convenience's sake just makes things bland.


Half the fun of building characters in d&d is differentiating yourself. It seems I'd forgotten that.




I think a better way is to reduce the number of feats for any given weapon. Most characters aren't swiss army knives, swapping out different weapons over the course of their career. Just make it so that weapon focus gives a +1 bonus to attack at BAB +1, and at BAB +4 also adds the damage bonus. The improved focus & specialization also collapse to a single feat. Or make all 4 of them a single feat, with BAB-based benefits kicking in.


For my own games, I've rolled all 4 feats into 1 feat (Weapon Focus), applied it to Weapon Groups like others have said and made the benefit based on BAB+Combat Bonus Feats.


Have you considered having Weapon Focus apply to every weapon in a certain Weapon Group (Pathfinder concept)


This route seems to be the better answer: shortening the chain rather than lumping everything together into two or three boring piles.


I like the idea of a combined "Specialized Weapon Focus" feat that grants a +1 attack bonus and a +2 damage bonus for characters with the appropriate BAB.


Apply this to Weapon Groups and you have a solution that solves a lot of your problems (multiple "useless" and "over-specialized" feat requirements) while still allowing characters to differentiate themselves.


(Unless anyone has any other insights, I think this might be the path I take.)

[heavyfuel]

I allow it to be applied to similar weapons.

If you're playing Pathfinder, then the work is already done for you with weapon groups.

Instead of "Weapon Focus" it becomes "Weapon group focus".

If you're playing 3.5, you could either import the PF mechanics (adding 3.5 exclusive weapons to whatever group you see fit) or allow something similar like "weapon focus: swords" which apply to all swords.

[Skysaber]

Actually, I think your idea is an excellent step in the right direction, but does not go far enough. We have been playing under a similar houserule for years, except the whole tree (Weapon Focus, Specialization, etc), apply to ALL attacks, even by spell or unarmed.

The result? People are still not inclined to take them. They're just not very good feats, even expanded to cover everything.

I think the big difference is that people grumble less and actually use them when required by their build, etc. Rather than forget they have them (as I've seen in some games).

Ultimately, it strengthens fighters, so helps them feel less underpowered.

[heavyfuel]

Actually, I think your idea is an excellent step in the right direction, but does not go far enough. We have been playing under a similar houserule for years, except the whole tree (Weapon Focus, Specialization, etc), apply to ALL attacks, even by spell or unarmed.

The result? People are still not inclined to take them. They're just not very good feats, even expanded to cover everything.

I think the big difference is that people grumble less and actually use them when required by their build, etc. Rather than forget they have them (as I've seen in some games).

Ultimately, it strengthens fighters, so helps them feel less underpowered.

You're kidding, right? A feat for ~10% more damage in every attack and people complain? Plus additional chance for riders from maneuvers and such? Yeah. I'll take it on literally every martial character as soon as I take my main feats.

[Elves]

Making Weapon Focus be +2 plus one at BAB 6/11/16 wouldn't be horrible. Yes, have it apply to weapon groups.

Presumably the goal of these feats is to be solid, unspectacular options for chars who don't want to specialize in a specific gimmick like charging/tripping. So if there's any depth that gets added to them, it should be about how to make "I move and attack" or "I swift action teleport over there and full attack" more interesting.