A silly theory about the Prophecy

[Morquard]

So we know that Thor believes Odin made the Prophecy so that Durkon learns about the Snarl and then dies at the right time, so that Thor then can educate him on its true nature and give him the task to convince Redcloak.

Roy believes that Odin did it because "they needed Durkon". Any other cleric would have given up on them long ago. Odin wants Xykon to win even less than Hel.

Both of those make sense, I suppose, but I present to you another theory! And that theory can be summarized in one word: Kudzu.

How, you may ask? Ok, maybe it needs a bit more. Well first of, I think we can agree that without the exile, Durkon would never have left on his own. And Hylgia would not have returned to dwarven lands on her own either, so the two would never had met, much less having a baby together. Even IF either of them had done that, the chance of them hooking up would have been slim in that case. They felt a kinship in the dungeon, Durkon thought she too must have been exiled, why else would a sane dwarf leave Dwarfland, and she thought he must hate dwarves as much as she and ran away, because which sane dwarf would want to stay in Dwarfland. That kinship would have been missing if they'd just met randomly in a tavern.

But why is that so important? Well easy. The gods are shaped by belief, we've heard and seen it a few times now. The dwarves learn of Kudzu (who maybe rises to prominence in the future) and think "Well if Thor AND Loki bless the union of two of their clerics with a child, then they can't hate each other as much as we always thought!"

And slowly that belief spreads through the northern continent. And being shaped by belief, well Thor and Loki can't really go against that just because it's inconvenient, they will hate each other less. Maybe become friends and brothers again.

It's divine family therapy, that's what it is!

[woweedd]

So we know that Thor believes Odin made the Prophecy so that Durkon learns about the Snarl and then dies at the right time, so that Thor then can educate him on its true nature and give him the task to convince Redcloak.

Roy believes that Odin did it because "they needed Durkon". Any other cleric would have given up on them long ago. Odin wants Xykon to win even less than Hel.

Both of those make sense, I suppose, but I present to you another theory! And that theory can be summarized in one word: Kudzu.

How, you may ask? Ok, maybe it needs a bit more. Well first of, I think we can agree that without the exile, Durkon would never have left on his own. And Hylgia would not have returned to dwarven lands on her own either, so the two would never had met, much less having a baby together. Even IF either of them had done that, the chance of them hooking up would have been slim in that case. They felt a kinship in the dungeon, Durkon thought she too must have been exiled, why else would a sane dwarf leave Dwarfland, and she thought he must hate dwarves as much as she and ran away, because which sane dwarf would want to stay in Dwarfland. That kinship would have been missing if they'd just met randomly in a tavern.

But why is that so important? Well easy. The gods are shaped by belief, we've heard and seen it a few times now. The dwarves learn of Kudzu (who maybe rises to prominence in the future) and think "Well if Thor AND Loki bless the union of two of their clerics with a child, then they can't hate each other as much as we always thought!"

And slowly that belief spreads through the northern continent. And being shaped by belief, well Thor and Loki can't really go against that just because it's inconvenient, they will hate each other less. Maybe become friends and brothers again.

It's divine family therapy, that's what it is!
Were they ever friends? Fairweather allies, maybe. But friends? Loki doesn't do friendship. Never has, really. And, of course, are they even brother shere? In the myths, Loki wasn't Thor's brother, adopted or otherwise.

[Rrmcklin]

Were they ever friends? Fairweather allies, maybe. But friends? Loki doesn't do friendship. Never has, really. And, of course, are they even brother shere? In the myths, Loki wasn't Thor's brother, adopted or otherwise.

There have been several mentions of their familial connection, including Thor flat out calling Loki his brother.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I like the theory.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's divine family therapy, that's what it is!
Bravo, this post made me grin :smallbiggrin:

[Morquard]

Were they ever friends? Fairweather allies, maybe. But friends? Loki doesn't do friendship. Never has, really.
a) I said "maybe" and b) If the world starts thinking they can be friends, then they can be. That's how this works.

[Squire Doodad]

I'm pretty sure the prophecy is about RC and stuff...
But this did make me smile :smallbiggrin:

[D.One]

I like the way you think. Wrong or right, it's funny. :smallbiggrin:

[Schroeswald]

Absolute best way to make your kids like each other, force them to be unable to not like each other.

[Morquard]

Were they ever friends? Fairweather allies, maybe. But friends? Loki doesn't do friendship. Never has, really.
Just wanted to comment on that. For all we know they were best buddies for the first 3,882,540 worlds, but then one of Loki's famous but harmless pranks spectacularly backfired. The people of that world were convinced that a) Loki must be evil and b) that he hates Thor for doing something like that to him.
Since now he actually hated Thor, the people of the next world believed that too, and it just got worse and worse from there.

Odin misses the times when his boys would hang out together and not try to murder each other.

[D.One]

Just wanted to comment on that. For all we know they were best buddies for the first 3,882,540 worlds, but then one of Loki's famous but harmless pranks spectacularly backfired. The people of that world were convinced that a) Loki must be evil and b) that he hates Thor for doing something like that to him.
Since now he actually hated Thor, the people of the next world believed that too, and it just got worse and worse from there.

Odin misses the times when his boys would hang out together and not try to murder each other.

Maybe next world people will think Hel is not daughter of Loki, but daughter of Odin and older sister of both Thor and Loki...

[Squire Doodad]

Maybe next world people will think Hel is not daughter of Loki, but daughter of Odin and older sister of both Thor and Loki...

Aaaaand we're done. Don't need to get that Marvel Asgardian lore all over our OotS.
Nice try though :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

And Hylgia would not have returned to dwarven lands on her own either, so the two would never had met, much less having a baby together. Even IF either of them had done that, the chance of them hooking up would have been slim in that case.
Tiny nit to pick: Hilgya's return to the dwarven lands was entirely irrelevant to Kudzu's birth.

But why is that so important? Well easy. The gods are shaped by belief, we've heard and seen it a few times now. The dwarves learn of Kudzu (who maybe rises to prominence in the future) and think "Well if Thor AND Loki bless the union of two of their clerics with a child, then they can't hate each other as much as we always thought!"
I doubt Thor's worshippers, at least, would imagine that he blessed their union; Thor simply understands unexpected pregnancies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html).

[Morquard]

Tiny nit to pick: Hilgya's return to the dwarven lands was entirely irrelevant to Kudzu's birth.

If Durkon would NOT have been exiled, he would not have left dwarven lands. He would not have met Hilgya, unless she returns on her own. Which she wouldn't have. And even if she had, the chances of them actually meeting and hooking up would be slim (as I wrote in my first post).

Hence the Exile was necessary for them to meet. And them MEETING was entirely relevant for Kudzu's birth.

[Peelee]

If Durkon would NOT have been exiled, he would not have left dwarven lands. He would not have met Hilgya, unless she returns on her own.

They met in the Redmountain Hills, not in Dwarven lands. She did not return to Dwarven lands until well after Kudzu was born (to the best of our knowledge).

[Morquard]

They met in the Redmountain Hills, not in Dwarven lands. She did not return to Dwarven lands until well after Kudzu was born (to the best of our knowledge).

Yes exactly. {Scrubbed}

[Peelee]

And Hylgia would not have returned to dwarven lands on her own either, so the two would never had met, much less having a baby together.

You posit that Hilgya had to return to dwarven lands in order to have the baby. But they made the baby long before Hilgya returned to Dwarven lands. Ergo, Hilgya did not have to return to the dwarven lands in order to meet Durkon and make Kudzu.

[Rrmcklin]

Hilgya returned to Dwarven Lands because she missed Dwarven Lands. She explicitly says that. Pregnancy or no pregnancy, it's something she most likely would have done eventually, even if you assume getting pregnant made her do it sooner.

[Rrmcklin]

Sorry for the double post, but I want to point out another flaw in the OP's reasoning.

Things can be done for multiple causes/reasons - it doesn't have to be an and/or. So both Thor and Roy can be right about why the prophecy was done (and I imagine they both were), and your theory can be true. I don't think it is, mind you, you can several facts wrong and the whole idea is very farfetched and unappealing to me. But I suppose it's technically possible.

[Squire Doodad]

Sorry for the double post, but I want to point out another flaw in the OP's reasoning

In case you forgot, you can always edit posts to add on more info.



Things can be done for multiple causes/reasons - it doesn't have to be an and/or. So both Thor and Roy can be right about why the prophecy was done (and I imagine they both were), and your theory can be true. I don't think it is, mind you, you can several facts wrong and the whole idea is very farfetched and unappealing to me. But I suppose it's technically possible.

I'd say that while the prophecy was done for Thor's reasoning, it ultimately had the greatest impact because of Roy's reasoning. Durkon might be a necessary component for this whole campaign, but it isn't just because he is a cleric who is empathetic and can disregard CHA checks, but because he is Durkon, and because he's the glue of the Order.

[Rrmcklin]

In case you forgot, you can always edit posts to add on more info.



I'd say that while the prophecy was done for Thor's reasoning, it ultimately had the greatest impact because of Roy's reasoning. Durkon might be a necessary component for this whole campaign, but it isn't just because he is a cleric who is empathetic and can disregard CHA checks, but because he is Durkon, and because he's the glue of the Order.

Didn't forget, but didn't know it actually was a forum rule. I'll keep that in mind.

[Fyraltari]

It seems to me that the comic implies Odin was on one of his "bad days" when he made that prophecy and so did it without any real reason and Thor has been assuming that because it worked out in his favor then that was what Odin intended, but seeing as Odin doesn't even remember doing it he realises that was dumb luck. Which is why he doesn't want to tell Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1145.html).

[woweedd]

It seems to me that the comic implies Odin was on one of his "bad days" when he made that prophecy and so did it without any real reason and Thor has been assuming that because it worked out in his favor then that was what Odin intended, but seeing as Odin doesn't even remember doing it he realises that was dumb luck. Which is why he doesn't want to tell Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1145.html).
Or it was one of his good days, and he's stuck in a Bad day now, meaning he can't remember why he made it. Plus, I think it kinda cheapens Durkon's arc, if he really WAS exiled for unfair, ****ty reasons: The comic devoted some time to pointing this out.

[KorvinStarmast]

Or it was one of his good days, and he's stuck in a Bad day now, meaning he can't remember why he made it. Plus, I think it kinda cheapens Durkon's arc, if he really WAS exiled for unfair, ****ty reasons: The comic devoted some time to pointing this out. A vote for this interpretation.

[CriticalFailure]

The "spindles wind the string forward but not back" quote seems to be Odin acknowledging that he can often prophesize and see ahead but not remember what's happened in the past or what' going on in the present very well...?

[Squire Doodad]

The "spindles wind the string forward but not back" quote seems to be Odin acknowledging that he can often prophesize and see ahead but not remember what's happened in the past or what' going on in the present very well...?

I believe it was meant to be something along those lines. Odin has memory issues, but he's still capable of seeing into the future. Thus, he can see (wind) things that are ahead (forward) in time, but not before (back) his current point in time.

[D.One]

A vote for this interpretation.

D.One, god of uniqueness, also votes Yes.

[ijuinkun]

Pretty much everything that Odin says up until "It's a mango" seems reasonable and lucid, but from that point onward he seems to have gone into "loopy" mode until the point on the next page where he talks about how the God Laws were made restrictive on purpose in order to reduce fighting between Gods.