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View Full Version : Optimization Mastery of Undeath



Fynzmirs
2019-09-01, 09:17 AM
So, in the upcoming campaign I want to try playing as a follower of Velsharoon. His basic philosophy would be that the cycle of Life and Death is indeed sacred, but it is just a way to surpass mortality and embrace undeath. So, undead = good, liches = good, but trying to escape death = bad, wiping out all life = bad and living miserable lives = bad.

We are starting at level 1 but I have an unhealthy habit of designing my characters all the way up to 20th level. My role in the party would be that of an arcane spellcaster and (surprisingly) of a healer, to highlight the duality of this character's philosophy (we will have both and off-caster and an off-healer, so I don't need to worry about underperforming that much).

Mechanical goals:
- capable healer
- the biggest possible access to necromancy goodies
- would really like access to Planar Binding and some thematical binds (Dybbuk and Maurezhi comes to mind)
- Finger of Death

Note 1: I do understand problems that come with playing as a character with many minions yet I feel that I have enough experience with that particular playstyle to avoid bogging down the game.

So, a Wizard Necromancer by himself fulfills all of those goals except for the first one, that's why I think Wizard would be the best main class for this build. Wizard 13 is required to get Finger of Death, Wizard 6 gives Undead Thralls, Wizard 14 gives a nice capstone.

My first build idea was Necromancer 14/Life Cleric 6, plain and simple. Starting as human with Magic Initiate (Druid - Shilleagh, Druidcraft, Goodberry) and comboing Goodberry with Disciple of Life would allow solid out of combat healing at level 2 (I insist on starting as a wizard if possible). I was thinking about Death and Grave domains, but Death domain doesn't really do much imo (I mean, yeah, I could have double cantrips, yay...) and Grave is all about fighting the undead, so... well, no. Life domain gives me a bit more healing and surprising synergy with things like Vampire Touch, Enervation or Life Transferance. Also, this way I can get Inflict Wounds and Revivify, both great necromancy spells.

Then I stumbled upon the Circle of Spores. Provided that I can convince my DM to ignore some unnecessary restrictions (Fungal Infestation WIS times per long rest? GGtR, really? HOW COULD YOU?) this can put some twist into this build and give a bit of a Witch Doctor-esque flavour, which I totally adore. A hermit living in the woods, helping some villagers but dabbling into dark magic gives many great opportunities for roleplay. Infestation cantrip is a welcome (if a bit, oh well, a LOT underpowered) addition - and with Spike Growth it's even playable. Summoning animals and the whole "nature" thing was at first putting me off, yet I came to the conclusion that "Survival of the fittest, death before ruin and glory for the undead" is a nice little catchphrase. This guy would be like a Shepard, who helps those with potential grow, watches them ultimately fall and gives them the eternal reward of undeath.

So here I am, sitting with those three subclasses and thinking about how to mix them together in the best way possible. I considered cutting off Life Cleric entirely, but just a single level in this class gives me Bane, Inflict Wounds, Healing Word and a nice flat boost to healing that pairs exceptionally well with both druid and wizard spells. I don't care THAT much about getting Necromancer capstone but I do love Finger of Death.

Note 2: If my DM decides to go by the book with Circle of Spores druid the whole subclass suddenly looses much of its charm. Maybe some other druid subclass could work in that case?

Note 3: I don't really care about high level spells, because 9th level magic seems completely out of character for this guy and 8th level wizard spell do include a nice necromancy spell (Clone) but it seems to be against character's philosophy. Upcasting Planar Biding and Create Undead will propably do the job even better than 8th and 9th level spells.

What's you opinion on how I should build this character? Necromancer 14/Life Cleric 6? Necromancer 13/Life Cleric 1/Circle of Spores Druid 6? Or maybe something strange like Necromancer 14/Life Cleric 3/Circle of Spores Druid 3? Are there any other possible synergies or ideas that you would want to share?

stoutstien
2019-09-01, 10:42 AM
Have you looked at the grave clerics yet. It sounds like it has most of what you need and want

intregus
2019-09-01, 12:31 PM
Or death clerics from the DMG or a Multiclass of grave/death cleric and necro wizard.

Is your table open to homebrew classes?

Rentirith
2019-09-01, 02:13 PM
While it's unearthed arcana and a bit on the op side (ok, a lot on the op side) you could do the wizard all the way with the theurgy school focused on the death domain. That will give you:

- access to some cleric spells at level up so long as you have the domain spells scribed (for example, if at 1st level you take false life and Ray of sickness as 2 of your spells, then once you choose this subclass at 2nd level you can make your two level up spells good ones like inflict wounds and/or healing word).
-Use a 'channel divinity' feature to either improve your spell attack roll or DC on your spell cast (uses bonus action) by 2 or increase your damage on a melee hit by a bunch (note this counts on any melee attack; so spiritual weapon or bigby's hand works, but flaming sphere type spells won't)
-Double cantrips casting when using a necromancy cantrip at level 6 if the targets are within 5 ft of each other.
-Ignore resistance to necrotic damage at level 10
Double cast necromancy spells at 5th level or lower once you hit level 14, again as long as the targets are next to each other.

Again, this is major cheese. I played a life theurgy wizard from 1 to 5 and I was just an average wizard who was wasting spells to heal others, but I could tell that once we got past that point I would have been much stronger than I should have been. If this option is attractive to you but you are unsure that your dm would allow it, maybe offer to loose the spell strength increasing portion of the channel divinity. This brings it more in line with a regular wizard.

Edit: I will also remind you that the best necromancy spells are not necromancy spells at 9th level, especially if you have the classic necromancer capstone. You would take the spells wish and true polymorph: on day 1 wish for a simulacrum. On day 2 get your party together to support you if this fails (more up to the dm at this point for drama) and cast true polymorph to turn your simulacrum into an ancient white dracolich. The dracolich template doesn't change ability scores, so that undead dragon still only has an intellgence of, like, 10. So get someone to feeblemind the thing (since it is friendly towards you still as long you are concentrating on the true polymorph spell, you might be able to tell it to not resist any spells? It gets fuzzy there) and then for good measure cast bane on it, or any other methods of reducing the charisma save. Once you have done all you can, use your Undead Thralls ability and if it fails, finish concentrating on the true polymorph spell. Once that hour is up, you have a completely real ancient white Dracolich under your ongoing command.
If the creature does make it's save, drop concentration on the true polymorph spell and kill the simulacrum, since you can't use the feature on the same creature more than once. Then the next day start this whole paragraph over again. Repeat until you have death as your steed. Then... profit?

Fable Wright
2019-09-01, 02:41 PM
Off-beat thought for you: Play an Arcana Cleric, primarily for access to one key feature: Divine Intervention.

At the start of every day, starting at level 10, Commune with Velsharoon and ask him if he will intervene and allow a mortal to escape life and death on this day. (That is, see if you can work out with the DM if you can roll odds of Divine Intervention before the adventuring day, and then have access to Finger of Death later that day.)

Now, normally Finger of Death would be outside of the scope of Divine Intervention, but Arcana Cleric adds spells to the Cleric's list. Level 6-9 Wizard spells such as said Finger of Death. It's not too much a stretch for the DM to allow Divine Intervention for that, even if you don't have the level 17 feature yet.

There's also a couple other unique features you can add here that no one else can do. Namely, Divine Intervention for Gate at level 10.

Step 1: Prepare a Magic Circle (it's a domain spell) to receive the Gated creature.
Step 2: Divine Intervention for a Gate.
Step 3: Planar Bind any summon you feel is appropriate—remember that they're a divine gift, after all.

(I do recommend pairing up with a Divination Wizard to force the failed saves if you can, but I'm not sure if it's worth the two level Wizard dip, or bringing some other way for long-term storage of the Gated creature to retry the Binding.)

Downside: No Undead Thralls.
Upside: Spirit Guardians, Booming Blade + Shillelagh + Potent Cantrips, a vast array of potential Planar Bound minions that are unsummonable by any other character such as the Boneclaw, Bodak, Pit Fiend, and more. You're not only a capable healer, but you're able to remove curses and blights that would alter the circle of life and death with a single Mass Healing Word. Also, you're about quality of minions rather than quantity, which your GM will thank you for so much.

ShikomeKidoMi
2019-09-02, 04:40 AM
I was thinking about Death and Grave domains, but Death domain doesn't really do much imo (I mean, yeah, I could have double cantrips, yay...)

Double Toll the Dying is actually pretty good. Inescapable Destruction isn't good but it isn't entirely bad if you plan on using Finger of Death a lot. Life is a lot better if you want a healing focus, though.

Circle of Spores isn't particularly strong, as Druids go, but it's certainly thematic as hell.

Nhorianscum
2019-09-02, 08:18 AM
Straight necromancer wiz with life transference checks all the boxes. Indestructable life makes your HP total arbitrary.

Alternately Cleric1/Theruge 19 is really dumb if UA is on the table.

Keep in mind that we'll be phasing out zombies/Skeles from not-danse-macabre in favor of much meatier undead once 6th+ level spells are up.

Segev
2019-09-03, 07:49 AM
Straight necromancer wiz with life transference checks all the boxes. Indestructable life makes your HP total arbitrary.

Alternately Cleric1/Theruge 19 is really dumb if UA is on the table.

Keep in mind that we'll be phasing out zombies/Skeles from not-danse-macabre in favor of much meatier undead once 6th+ level spells are up.

What is Life Transferrence, and is "Indestructible Life" just the name of the Necromancer's "nothing can reduce my max hp" ability, or something else?

Nhorianscum
2019-09-03, 08:06 AM
What is Life Transferrence, and is "Indestructible Life" just the name of the Necromancer's "nothing can reduce my max hp" ability, or something else?

Self damage for a reasonably strong heal

There are things that increase max HP so Necromancer eventually just has an arbitrarily high amount of HP. It's useful if you're planning to self damage a lot

Nagog
2019-09-03, 08:53 AM
What is Life Transferrence, and is "Indestructible Life" just the name of the Necromancer's "nothing can reduce my max hp" ability, or something else?

"Indestructible Life", from my research, is a 14th level subclass feature for the Warlock Patron "The Undying", which I found on a 5e wiki, but I'm pretty sure it's not RAW. That and 14th level Warlock does not multiclass well with what's required for the OP's party role (particularly to involve healing and support spells)

stoutstien
2019-09-03, 08:56 AM
On the subject of warlocks, celestial locks can heal undead minions which is actually pretty rare in 5e

Nhorianscum
2019-09-03, 04:15 PM
"Indestructible Life", from my research, is a 14th level subclass feature for the Warlock Patron "The Undying", which I found on a 5e wiki, but I'm pretty sure it's not RAW. That and 14th level Warlock does not multiclass well with what's required for the OP's party role (particularly to involve healing and support spells)

Eh whatever the equivilant is on Necromancer.

Inured to Undeath, the level 10 ability, there we go.

Mutazoia
2019-09-03, 05:42 PM
I would suggest going Spore Druid to lvl 6 then jumping to Wizard to be able to double your Raise Dead spell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ71u2PK9bo