Social Combat

[ZenBear]

I need help building compelling encounters for a group that is highly social in their skill and spell preferences. They constantly attempt to Intimidate, Deceive, Frighten, and Charm their way through encounters and I want to find entertaining way to incorporate that into combat encounters. Notably one of my PCs is a Luchador.

[nickl_2000]

I will try and think of ways to do it, but I have to ask. How did he make the luchador?

[intregus]

Also, pat yourself on the back!

That's so awesome that you're changing the game to engage the players in their strengths!

[ZenBear]

I will try and think of ways to do it, but I have to ask. How did he make the luchador?
I made him a hombrew Rogue subclass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?570946-Roguish-Archetype-The-Luchador). The player is a big fan of pro wrestling.

Also, pat yourself on the back!

That's so awesome that you're changing the game to engage the players in their strengths!
Thanks! I want everyone to have fun, so I need to adjust the game to compensate for players' preferences.

The rest of my party is a loli paladin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtwPNIZ5fgg) with another homebrew subclass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?562892-Oath-of-the-Waifu), an insane Kenku Raven Queen Warlock, and a murderhobo Fire Genasi Evocation Wizard. They are very provocative characters but prefer to socially bully before resorting to violence. In an effort to better accommodate their antics, I need to play off of their skills instead of letting them invalidate encounters that would otherwise be tense battles.

[Damon_Tor]

Rather than a simple pass/fail on checks, give each NPC a "resolve" score which acts as the social equivalent of hitpoints. Everytime a PC passes a social check against an NPC, that NPC loses 1d4+Cha resolve. At 0, they relent to the PCs' pressures.

The "damage dice" of these attempts can be less or greater if the PCs have obtained social "weapons" to use. A position of authority acts as a social weapon, so a PC with a noble background might have a 1d8 persuasion dice for example.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I worked out some full fledged social combat rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502068-5e-Social-Combat-Mechanics) back in... holy geez was that really three years ago? You guys might like them?

[Bjarkmundur]

Rather than a simple pass/fail on checks, give each NPC a "resolve" score which acts as the social equivalent of hitpoints. Everytime a PC passes a social check against an NPC, that NPC loses 1d4+Cha resolve. At 0, they relent to the PCs' pressures.

The "damage dice" of these attempts can be less or greater if the PCs have obtained social "weapons" to use. A position of authority acts as a social weapon, so a PC with a noble background might have a 1d8 persuasion dice for example.


I worked out some full fledged social combat rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502068-5e-Social-Combat-Mechanics) back in... holy geez was that really three years ago? You guys might like them?

You can realistically combine them to make a rudimentary social, combat system. Simpler than Grod's and more refined than Damon's you just have to decide on the math, and whether you want to use attack rolls or saving throws.

I'm trying to visualise how this would flow, sine when DMing I don't personally like putting passive players in the spotlight. I am a passive player, so I'd know just how panic inducing it is when a DM does that.

I'd probably go for a more checkboxy approach. Check out Matt Colville skill challenge videos. I remember doing some of these when running 4e, and that worked nicely. Especially since passive players could just roll insight to give the next player in line advantage on their roll.

Do you mean that they try to roleplay out of combat encounters, or skill check their way out, since there is a huuuuge difference. If they are just rolling their way out of your combats, there might be more to it than you realized. I'm not gonna go into it without receiving an answer, though.

I hate Intimidation as a skill. I completely replaced it in my game; bad guys aren't scary if they can be intimidated. And if you can't intimidate the bad guy you have a skill that's completely useless. Charming, negotating or bluffing the bad guy is not bypassing an obstacle, since those can only be done by actually role-playing. And is some cases, might just turn the obstacle into a different obstacle. I mean, if you try to bluff the cultist from opening the portal, you are suddenly on speaking turms with a cultist, and by not fighting him you'll most likely let him go. You ve just managed to change the date and location of your problem, not eliminate it.

[Arcangel4774]

Maybe thet have multiple targets that need to be taken care of and luring them away, scaring off their allies, convincing them to turn on eachother is the best way to fight. Especially if the force is shown to be too difficult to take on all at once

[Telok]

Understand, if you really want a usable social combat mechanic you need to have the opponents be active participants too. Thus they can affect the PCs, otherwise it's just the same roll vs. DC with more steps and math.

[LudicSavant]

The social interaction rules in the DMG (on page 244) are a model which I wish more DMs would take note of. They encourage everyone in the party to participate and leverage a variety of tools and interactions to affect the end result, instead of just boiling down to "make a Charisma check."

A couple notable points from there:

- If multiple characters contribute in a meaningful way to the conversation, one player in the party makes the Persuasion check, but gets Advantage. This is important, because it encourages everyone to jump in, rather than just the "party face."

- The DC of the Charisma check (and whether it is even possible to attempt at all) is influenced significantly by an NPC's attitude, which can be changed over the course of a conversation by means like appealing to their bond, trait, or flaw in roleplaying.

- Investigative skills like Insight can be very useful in determining the NPC's characteristics or other information useful in changing their attitude (and thus opening them up to a Charisma check to persuade them).