Are there any sorcerer spells that are useful in epic levels when you only have CL 3?

[Voidstar01]

im playing a Dragon PC in an epic level game, my racial Hit Dice put me in young adult age category, giving me a caster level of 3, are there any spells that still maintain any level of usability under these circumstances?

[Malroth]

True Strike
Benign transposition
See Invisibility
Fog cloud

[heavyfuel]

Nerveskitter comes to mind. Be aware that you lose your Swift action on your first round and that you can actually use it on other people if you're feeling like a team player.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Grease is a definite. Anything mindless and can't fly, like a golem, and anything that doesn't have ranks in Balance is utterly neutered by it.

Also, pyrotechnics is good for anything that can't see through smoke (which is most things).

Least wish prestidigitation. Or most non-damaging cantrips, really.

Summon monster I for a few abilities you can't get natively, such as burrowing. And if you're small enough, you can use it for short-term flight, as well.

Check some of the stuff on this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?155518-Tucker-s-Kobolds-PEACH-3-5). If you have setup time, you might be surprised how well you can do.

[gooddragon1]

Enlarge person on an ally.
Alter self to allow control of your size. (Not sure if you have access to 2nd level spells)

[Elves]

True Strike, Nerveskitter, Benign Transposition. Potentially Unseen Servant, Jump if jump pumping, Enlarge Person although psionic Expansion is better, Protection from Evil. Ray of Enfeeblement could have niche use.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't forget that having a caster level allows you to craft alchemical items. Don't bother with direct damage unless you can craft in bulk; instead, use healing and status effect items such as eggshell grenades, healing salve, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, and smoke sticks.

Can you trade your spells for maneuvers via the Eberron draconic archetype? Can you boost your effective sorcerer level via one of the various means that true dragons have?

[Voidstar01]

Don't forget that having a caster level allows you to craft alchemical items. Don't bother with direct damage unless you can craft in bulk; instead, use healing and status effect items such as eggshell grenades, healing salve, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, and smoke sticks.

Can you trade your spells for maneuvers via the Eberron draconic archetype? Can you boost your effective sorcerer level via one of the various means that true dragons have?

I'm already a wyrm of war, sovereign archetypes only cause you to loose your extra spells that come from cleric or domain spell lists example: a silver dragon
"Can also cast cleric spells and those from the Air, Good, Law, and Sun domains as arcane spells" (taken straight from SRD) a loredrake silver dragon looses those in exchange for loredrake benefits, so it still cast as a 3rd level sorcerer but without the ability to cast any spells it would only have access to by virtue of it's domains or that only appear on the cleric list

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you can get some free metamagic (such as multiple metamagic feats on a single rod), try Widened, Sculpt Spell'd grease. Imagine an 80' cone of solid grease coating literally everything and everyone in front of you. Even if you fail the SR checks, all solid ground before you is buttered up nicely. And if you can manage to get through the SR and saves, it disarms anyone whose weapon and/or hand and/or gauntlet gets hit with more greasy goo than the worst movie popcorn.

Talk about battlefield control.

[edit] Chained, Repeating, Twin, Fell Drain sonic snap and the same for launch bolt (with Colossal bolts) are both quite nice, as well.

Also, check this out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?592497-Cantrips-vs-Martial-20).

[GrayDeath]

Power of the True Form (if you are a Dragon that has an alternate Form) and as always, Scintillating Scales are not a bad pick either.

But palying a YOUNG Dragon in an EPIC campaign ... you will suck. Badly.

Even if the others are only Fighter/Prestige CLass Bruisers ^^

[Zancloufer]

What exactly are you playing that has 21+ levels and CL 3 as a Young adult dragon? Pretty sure even the weakest of dragons have at least CL 5 by epic levels.

More on topic: Nerveskitter is probably the best by a mile. Not sure there are many other choice level 1 spells with CL 3 that would even make a difference at level 21+. Maybe Grease or True Strike is very limited applications?

[Feantar]

Trying not to repeat suggestions already issued by others... although it needs to be said that nerveskitter is awesome.


True Casting might be useful in some cases.
Extract Drug from BoVD can give you alchemical bonuses to certain things, which are really rare and thus always useful. Depends on your class.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What exactly are you playing that has 21+ levels and CL 3 as a Young adult dragon? Pretty sure even the weakest of dragons have at least CL 5 by epic levels.Honestly, by level 20, you'd be way better off as a full-caster who has body-swapped with a dragon, or has acquired options to wild shape into one more or less permanently.

Say you're a dragon in humanoid form, or whatever, but mechanically, you're a loredrake Dragonwrought kobold (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) sorcerer 5/swordsage 2/retooled jade dragon mage 10, or whatever.

[Voidstar01]

What exactly are you playing that has 21+ levels and CL 3 as a Young adult dragon? Pretty sure even the weakest of dragons have at least CL 5 by epic levels.

More on topic: Nerveskitter is probably the best by a mile. Not sure there are many other choice level 1 spells with CL 3 that would even make a difference at level 21+. Maybe Grease or True Strike is very limited applications?

Shadow dragon 17, 17 Racial HD, LA +4, DM disallowed LA buyoff. One of 3 dragons in the party. from a power perspective it's WAAYY stronger than anything else I've built or theory crafted, sitting with 53 AC, 292 HP, DR 8/magic (DR 5/-), fast healing 3, two breath weapons (1 from a graft), a natural attack array of 6 attacks (also 1 from graft) most hitting at +25, and Acid resist 30 (graft again). Way better than any of the other super janky builds in my head.

[Voidstar01]

But palying a YOUNG Dragon in an EPIC campaign ... you will suck. Badly.


young ADULT, I wasn't that dumb, and i'm the third dragon to join the party so ideally it should be fine

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Strength of the True Form:

(Dragons of Eberron, p. 15)

Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer 1
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Duration: 1 round Should be "See Text"
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell can be cast only by a creature that has been altered due to the use of polymorph, alternate form, or a similar effect. Compare the natural armor, damage reduction, and physical ability scores of the caster's current and original forms; for the duration of the spell, the caster uses the highest value in each category. This spell has no visible effect.

If the caster has the Silent Spell feat, he can apply it to this spell without increasing the casting time.

[Voidstar01]

Strength of the True Form:

Shadow Dragons don't have an alternate form, I guess it could be useful if I somehow gained access to polymorph, but feel like at that point I might as well just buy a wand for it

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Shadow Dragons don't have an alternate form, I guess it could be useful if I somehow gained access to polymorph, but feel like at that point I might as well just buy a wand for itThere are plenty of ways to alter your form, even if only through items. Pathfinder has alter self as an item, 3e has the phylactery of change (1/day polymorph) and the psychoactive skin of proteus (which is crazy good no matter your level), and strength of the true form means your stats are always at least as good as your base form, no matter how you appear.

[Voidstar01]

There are plenty of ways to alter your form, even if only through items. Pathfinder has alter self as an item, 3e has the phylactery of change (1/day polymorph) and the psychoactive skin of proteus (which is crazy good no matter your level), and strength of the true form means your stats are always at least as good as your base form, no matter how you appear.

I just looked up what a psychoactive skin was, yea that's pretty good, if I didn't value all my magic items I have so highly i'd use my starting wealth to buy one, i'll take the spell for now

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I just looked up what a psychoactive skin was, yea that's pretty good, if I didn't value all my magic items I have so highly i'd use my starting wealth to buy one, i'll take the spell for nowSanctified psychoactive skin (so it's [Good]) with Words of Creation gives you a free ML for an extra HD of critters you can turn into. Then spend a bit of extra money to otherwise improve the manifester level to a minimum of 15. If the creator has the Reserves of Strength feat and uses it to craft, you can even boost it past ML 15 as high as you're willing to spend money for.

You could always take Ancestral Relic...

[Voidstar01]

Actually now that i think of it, i'd still be better off buying a wand or ring for the spell, since i have no way to extend the duration (i don't even have a 2nd level slot to extend it let alone a sixth level to persist it) and a ring with a constant strength of the true form spell in as low as 2000GP (1x1x2000)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Actually now that i think of it, i'd still be better off buying a wand or ring for the spell, since i have no way to extend the duration (i don't even have a 2nd level slot to extend it let alone a sixth level to persist it) and a ring with a constant strength of the true form spell in as low as 2000GP (1x1x2000)Well, the psychoactive skin lasts forever until you change it, and strength of the true form lasts as long as its attendant effect lasts, according to the spell description. Though that "Duration: 1 round" completely screws that up.

[Quertus]

So, I'm not technically repeating anyone if I recommend Kauper's Skittish Nerves. But, really, the rebranded Nerveskitter is better.

Personally, I've had the most fun with Prestidigitation and Benign Transposition. But you can always get those in wand form.

[Voidstar01]

I don't think the duration of strength of the true form is ever implied to be the length of the shapechanging effect it says "for the duration of the spell"(emphasis mine). Since alternate form is an ability, not a spell, and specifically listed as working with this spell it can be assumed the spell being referred to is strength of the true form itself, meaning the duration in question is 1 round, meaning without metamagic to increase it's duration or reduce it's casting time it's mostly useless (with the exception of applying natural AC against all attacks in the next round)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't think the duration of strength of the true form is ever implied to be the length of the shapechanging effect it says "for the duration of the spell"(emphasis mine). Since alternate form is an ability, not a spell, and specifically listed as working with this spell it can be assumed the spell being referred to is strength of the true form itself, meaning the duration in question is 1 round, meaning without metamagic to increase it's duration or reduce it's casting time it's mostly useless (with the exception of applying natural AC against all attacks in the next round)Huh. Looks like it's a complete waste of paper and ink, unless you Persist it.

[Kalkra]

Wings of Cover.