The Best DM I've Ever Been, But...

[Bjarkmundur]

My autumn campaign is finally underway after summer break, and it's amazing how much I've grown as a DM. I want to thank you all for enduring my relentless nitpicking and weird questions, your insight and advice have drastically changed the atmosphere of my games in just a couple of months. And the best part, the players noticed it! They all complemented me and told me that I've become the best DM I've ever been!

This has mostly to do with setting. Before I used to focus on the adventure, the story, and the obstacles. I've now completely changed my focus to NPCs, locations and events in my setting the players are all free to interact with. It's like night and day, I tell you. They also told me that my inspiration Houserule mechanic is the best general Houserule they've seen implemented. Fair to say, we all had a great time.

There are still some places I'm struggling with incorporating this new style of Gameplay.

In our next session I've laid down a simple and short "go there, kill that" side quest. I've created a couple of scenes leading up to the quest and a handful of interesting NPCs to interact with on the way. My troubles stem from the combat itself.

I have two 2nd level characters fighting a CR1 Scarecrow with crowd control. In a vacuum, this encounter isn't terribly exciting. Instead of redoing the encounter from scratch I want to look at this as an opportunity to exercise my DM toolkit, and find a way to spice up the combat with some additional goals, a second source of conflict or something to interact with. I want it to be something more in the narrative rather than reverting to my old style and think 'how would a video game make this interesting'.

So, a 2v1 fight in the middle of a crop field against a stun locking enemy, what can you imagine would fit in nicely in a low-magic urban setting?

Problem 1: Scarecrow is immune to charm, and my second player's spell list is ALL charm spells.
Problem 2: Due to the scarerow's multiattack, the Barbarian is going to spend a lot of the time frightened and out of the fight.
Problem 3: Even if I solve problem 1 and 2, it's still just "hit thing until it dies" and exists completely disconnected from the narrative. It's not like a fight from Pirates of the Caribbean where the fight is simply a stage for the narrative to take place.
Problem 4: My Barbarian is likely to start looking up ways to prevent himself to be in this position again. What methods can I expect him to find to better resist the frightened condition in the future.

[Contrast]

Problem 1: Scarecrow is immune to charm, and my second player's spell list is ALL charm spells.

I wouldn't say this is a problem in so much as it is a lesson for your player about spell choices :smalltongue: Just make sure it isn't a consistent theme and it's fine. At level 2 there isn't a world of difference between the classes anyway so cantrip slinging or using a weapon are perfectly viable.


Problem 2: Due to the scarerow's multiattack, the Barbarian is going to spend a lot of the time frightened and out of the fight.

Out of the fight? Barbarian is actually in an OK spot seeing as the scarecrow doesn't have a ranged attack itself and he can reckless attack. Again, perhaps a lesson about making sure you bring some thrown/ranged weapons with you.

If you don't want the barb to feel so bad about being 'frightened' perhaps fluff it as being bombarded by a flock of illusory crows at the scarecrows command which hamper fighting and prevent moving closer.


Problem 3: Even if I solve problem 1 and 2, it's still just "hit thing until it dies" and exists completely disconnected from the narrative. It's not like a fight from Pirates of the Caribbean where the fight is simply a stage for the narrative to take place.

My immediate thought was splitting the scarecrows HP into 2 or 3. When it exhausts its first chunk in the field they see an energy flicker away to a nearby barn. When they get inside turns out this was the barn where the farmer was in the middle of making a whole load of half assembled scarecrows which is now possesses in turn, each one slightly less complete. Might need some tweaks to not make the fight harder as a result.

If you want comedy rather than dark the final one would just be a 1HP stick hopping about trying to hit them for 1 damage :smallbiggrin:


Problem 4: My Barbarian is likely to start looking up ways to prevent himself to be in this position again. What methods can I expect him to find to better resist the frightened condition in the future.

I mean the simplest way is to choose Berserker as their subclass next level. It's actually one of the bigger advantages of the subclass given the problems with the exhaustion stuff.

[Sigreid]

Don't solve any of the problems and let them figure out what they are going to do. They will adapt going forward if they learn that 1. you can't be a one trick pony and 2. enemies don't look up your stat block to make sure that they're vulnerable to your choices. This is the kind of encounter that turns inexperienced and unprepared characters into seasoned adventurers that make sure they're ready for anything.

[stoutstien]

Don't solve any of the problems and let them figure out what they are going to do. They will adapt going forward if they learn that 1. you can't be a one trick pony and 2. enemies don't look up your stat block to make sure that they're vulnerable to your choices. This is the kind of encounter that turns inexperienced and unprepared characters into seasoned adventurers that make sure they're ready for anything.

Second this. I'm a firm believer that all encounter should be built based on a pseudo party and not each individual party member. Build Fair and let it happen organically.

Scarecrows are a great example of why res Wis is an great feat for barbarians

[JNAProductions]

Second this. I'm a firm believer that all encounter should be built based on a pseudo party and not each individual party member. Build Fair and let it happen organically.

I agree with this to an extent.

So long as the players are all having fun working through the challenges, then build that way. If, however, a player or players are starting to get frustrated because what they built for isn't working, then I'd start tailoring for their advantage.

In this circumstance, though, I think you're fine to just leave the Scarecrow as-is.

[Bjarkmundur]

....half assembled scarecrows... ....If you want comedy rather than dark the final one would just be a 1HP stick hopping about trying to hit them for 1 damage :smallbiggrin:

This is perfect!

I agree with all of you, and I'm glad that we came up with a solution that doesn't require me tailoring the encounter specifically to the players, although I can say it is a common practice for smaller groups.

The Scarecrow has 36HP, the twig blight has 4HP.

When the scarecrow is bloodied (18hp) I'll have it split up into 4 twig blights, each with 4 HP. That should result in shorter stun-locking and give me a chance to make a fun description as the scarecrow falls apart into individual animated sticks. This will add an event in the middle of the encounter, and prevent it from getting stale or frustrating. You guys are the best, cheers!

[stoutstien]

I agree with this to an extent.

So long as the players are all having fun working through the challenges, then build that way. If, however, a player or players are starting to get frustrated because what they built for isn't working, then I'd start tailoring for their advantage.

In this circumstance, though, I think you're fine to just leave the Scarecrow as-is.

Yes, as long as the party figures our it's a construct they will have a good idea what should and will work. The fire vulnerability is pretty obvious and gaze takes the whole action so it feels alot more scary than it is. The worse case the barbarian wastes a rage or the caster learns it's immune to charm and blows a slot. Scare crowd can be shut down a bunch of option because they themselves are pretty much a one trick npc

[Zhorn]

This might just be me here, but if it's in the middle of a crop field AND there's scarecrows with fire vulnerability, I'd opt to have the field highly flammable also.
Sure, the fire damage makes short work of the scarecrows, but now the players are surrounded by fire. If if the scarecrow was lit on fire, as it runs and flails about it leaves a lesser flamewall in its wake.

[Bjarkmundur]

This might just be me here, but if it's in the middle of a crop field AND there's scarecrows with fire vulnerability, I'd opt to have the field highly flammable also.
Sure, the fire damage makes short work of the scarecrows, but now the players are surrounded by fire. If if the scarecrow was lit on fire, as it runs and flails about it leaves a lesser flamewall in its wake.

Definitely using this! You are a genius, Zhorn!

Does a square-on-fire just act like oil-on-fire? (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Oil#content) Meh, we're using theater-of-the-mind, so It'll be more about putting out the fire and avoid taking damage as they do so. Would be a shame to burn down the farm they are helping. The Harpers probably won't reward renown for that, at least xD
How do I even rule that? You try to put out the fire. Roll a... wisdom... check...? ...to be careful?... enough to not burn yourself in the progress?

....Does it break the immersion that a crop catches on fire during harvest season? Nah, I don't even think they've been to a farm during mid-summer. xD

[Sigreid]

I agree with this to an extent.

So long as the players are all having fun working through the challenges, then build that way. If, however, a player or players are starting to get frustrated because what they built for isn't working, then I'd start tailoring for their advantage.

In this circumstance, though, I think you're fine to just leave the Scarecrow as-is.

The counter to this is you also aren't building specifically to foil the characters. If a player wants to specialize in something, that's fine. It will probably work as intended most of the time if the opponents aren't all designed to counter it. That it won't always work just gives others a better opportunity to show off once in a while.

[Bjarkmundur]

Ermm..

How do two adventures go about putting out a cropfire, in a narratively dramatic fashion?

I'll just tack on a sentence at the end of the encounter "An you put out the remaining fires, taking 5 fire damage each"

[Sigreid]

Again, I'd let them figure it out and judge their solution.

Beyond that, a few things come to mind. Shape water or create water are easy answers. The mold earth cantrip can also be used to bury some of the flame. Failing that, do they have a shovel or a bucket? Nothing wrong with fighting the fire by putting your back into it.

[Laserlight]

"Players set enemy, and entire countryside, on fire" is more or less a given in this sort of situation, as far as I can tell.

[Sigreid]

You could always have a druid shape changed into a bear and wearing a broad brimmed hat come and help them put it out before lecturing them that "Only you can prevent forest fires".

[Safety Sword]

I literally don't worry about how my players or their characters are going to get themselves out of the situations I create.

Bluntly, that's their problem. And half of the fun of our game.

[Foff]

If they're not prepared, kill them dead...

[Aprender]

Field is on fire when the PCs see a moving scarecrow.
They attack.
They win fight.
They put out fire.
Townsfolk rush in.
PCs expect congratulations.
Townsfolk ask what happened to their magic firefighting scarecrow?

Profit?

[stoutstien]

Field is on fire when the PCs see a moving scarecrow.
They attack.
They win fight.
They put out fire.
Townsfolk rush in.
PCs expect congratulations.
Townsfolk ask what happened to their magic firefighting scarecrow?

Profit?

The idea of a firefighter scarecrow robot is amazing.

[rlc]

These aren't really problems.

[Nagog]

Problem 1: Scarecrow is immune to charm, and my second player's spell list is ALL charm spells.
Problem 2: Due to the scarerow's multiattack, the Barbarian is going to spend a lot of the time frightened and out of the fight.
Problem 3: Even if I solve problem 1 and 2, it's still just "hit thing until it dies" and exists completely disconnected from the narrative. It's not like a fight from Pirates of the Caribbean where the fight is simply a stage for the narrative to take place.
Problem 4: My Barbarian is likely to start looking up ways to prevent himself to be in this position again. What methods can I expect him to find to better resist the frightened condition in the future.(Trimmed for comment length)

For all of the issues, I'd throw in a civilian-level npc into the mix who they can deduce is somehow controlling or manipulating the Scarecrow to their own ends. They'll attempt to stay out of range of the party's attacks, but the party should still know they're there directing the Scarecrow to attack the party. This will provide a target the caster can charm to potentially confuse the Scarecrow, and a target the Barbarian can attack even if he's Frightened of the Scarecrow. When the Civilian is incapacitated/removed from the fight, the scarecrow is no longer being directed and will obviously change attack patterns and such, but still be a threat if it hasn't already been dealt with. The why and how the civilian is directing the Scarecrow is how you loop the encounter in to the storyline.


Ermm..

How do two adventures go about putting out a cropfire, in a narratively dramatic fashion?

I'll just tack on a sentence at the end of the encounter "An you put out the remaining fires, taking 5 fire damage each"

For this, I'd just present the challenge to them and hear what kind of plans they have. They may not even end up using fire to kill it, but if they do, I'd ensure they know (as while playing in the Theater of the Mind is fun and immersive, sometimes logical conclusions from setting to action don't quite connect before the action is completed) the possible outcomes of their decision. If they decide to burn it anyway, ensure they know what resources they have at their disposal and what the issue is and see what they come up with. Perhaps the caster has Ray of Frost and fires the ray through the burning crops to put it out? Could cause further damage to the crop, but the cold won't spread like fire does. Perhaps there's a well nearby the Barbarian could use to gather water and form a water brigade, or if you have a druid perhaps they use Call Lightening to attempt to have the summoned stormcloud rain on the crops. All of these are possible solutions, and encourage your party to think outside the video game mechanics box many RPGs have players stuck in.

[Sol]

Problem 1: Scarecrow is immune to charm, and my second player's spell list is ALL charm spells.

The phrasing you used above is a bit of a red flag to me. Is your player's spell list really all charm spells? As in, they apply the charmed status, that the scarecrow is immune to?

Are you sure that they aren't instead spells that belong to the Enchantment school of magic, which includes but is not restricted to charm effects?

There's a lot more creatures that are immune to the Charmed condition than that are immune to all Enchantment spells and effects.

Somewhere around half of all obviously-mind-affecting Enchantment spells call out that creatures immune to the Charmed status can't be affected (or automatically save against them), but many gems of the school, such as Hideous Laughter, Hold Person/Monster, Confusion and even Command, do not have this restriction.

[Bjarkmundur]

Somewhere around half of all obviously-mind-affecting Enchantment spells call out that creatures immune to the Charmed status can't be affected (or automatically save against them), but many gems of the school, such as Hideous Laughter, Hold Person/Monster, Confusion and even Command, do not have this restriction.

COMMAND! Thank you good sir!

[stoutstien]

The phrasing you used above is a bit of a red flag to me. Is your player's spell list really all charm spells? As in, they apply the charmed status, that the scarecrow is immune to?

Are you sure that they aren't instead spells that belong to the Enchantment school of magic, which includes but is not restricted to charm effects?

There's a lot more creatures that are immune to the Charmed condition than that are immune to all Enchantment spells and effects.

Somewhere around half of all obviously-mind-affecting Enchantment spells call out that creatures immune to the Charmed status can't be affected (or automatically save against them), but many gems of the school, such as Hideous Laughter, Hold Person/Monster, Confusion and even Command, do not have this restriction.

It has Immunies to hold person+ it's not humanoid, confusion would work but over kill for a low cr opponent like said scarecrow, THL and command are good tho.

It's also low key immune to sleep do to unconscious immunity which is an odd one to have. Even the golems don't have it.

[Demonslayer666]

Appropriately challenging the party is always a difficult line to toe. Make it too difficult and you are out to get the players, too easy and there's no risk vs. reward.

Fun is the goal.

If you think an encounter you designed is suddenly going to be too difficult, you can always add in something they can discover that will help them. A local NPC is willing to fight with them but they need gear, the local alchemist can brew up a potion to help with the fear save, someone may know of a vulnerability or immunity, etc.

Blindly facing something too challenging is not fun for me as a player, and as DM, I don't do that to my players. They get fair warning, and if they throw caution to the wind, then it's on them.

[Safety Sword]

Appropriately challenging the party is always a difficult line to toe. Make it too difficult and you are out to get the players, too easy and there's no risk vs. reward.

Fun is the goal.

If you think an encounter you designed is suddenly going to be too difficult, you can always add in something they can discover that will help them. A local NPC is willing to fight with them but they need gear, the local alchemist can brew up a potion to help with the fear save, someone may know of a vulnerability or immunity, etc.

Blindly facing something too challenging is not fun for me as a player, and as DM, I don't do that to my players. They get fair warning, and if they throw caution to the wind, then it's on them.

Appropriately challenging is easily adjusted mid-fight. If you think it's too easy you can always add hit points on the fly, squeak an attack bonus up a little, etc.

You can of course go the other way too... but why would you? :smallamused:

[Demonslayer666]

Appropriately challenging is easily adjusted mid-fight. If you think it's too easy you can always add hit points on the fly, squeak an attack bonus up a little, etc.

You can of course go the other way too... but why would you? :smallamused:

Yeah, you can, but my players would notice easily and that would show how poorly it was designed.

The answer to why, of course, is fun.