Half-Caster/Fighter

[Sornjss Lichdom]

What bass class do you find is the best blend of these. Now I know that I should pick one or the other, but there really is no comp. Caster in this world, and I wanted some magic. So what's out there, and how do you play it like, I dont know, a warmage or somthing. Plz and Ty.

[PlatinumJester]

Duskblade from PHB2. I played one once and it was great fun though the campaign ended that session. Raptoran Duskblades are cool :smallcool:.

ToB uses a spell type system for maneuvers but they don't use actual magic. Though I recomend ToB to anyone using a martial class.

[Fax Celestis]

Spellthief or Hexblade are okay, though Duskblade is really really awesome at this.

[DraPrime]

Duskblade without a doubt. Combine it with the Battle Caster feat from Complete Arcan and you'll be able to cast spells in heavy armor.

[KIDS]

Duskblade from PHB2 is widely considered the good one-class fighter/mage that you can take to lvl 20 and be happy all the way.

[PlatinumJester]

Spellthief or Hexblade are okay, though Duskblade is really really awesome at this.

The Hexblade is cool but quite underpowered compared to the Duskblade wo can channel his spelss through his weapon.

Maybe ask your DM to add a few spells to the Duskblade spell list since it i rather lacking i if you do this ask for: Wraithstrike (SC), Caltrops (SC) and Shield (PHB).

[Sornjss Lichdom]

I thought of hexblade but as menchend it is rather underpowered, though very flavorful, i might try to get my dm to change it up a bit, what should be done to the hexblade to make it better?

oh and were do you get the spellthief from, CA?

[PlatinumJester]

I thought of hexblade but as menchend it is rather underpowered, though very flavorful, i might try to get my dm to change it up a bit, what should be done to the hexblade to make it better?

oh and were do you get the spellthief from, CA?

To make a Hexblade better you play a Duskblade. Hexblades use Charisma for spells which is a dump stat whereas Duskblades use Int which is a decent stat.

Spellthief is here (sorry about the lack of table) :


Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Sneak Attack +1d6, Steal Spell (0th or 1st), Trapfinding - - - -
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Detect Magic, Spellgrace +1, Steal Spell Effect - - - -
3 +2 +1 +1 +3 Steal Energy Resistance 10 - - - -
4 +3 +1 +1 +4 Steal Spell (2nd) 0 - - -
5 +3 +1 +1 +4 Sneak Attack +2d6, Steal Spell-Like Ability 0 - - -
6 +4 +2 +2 +5 Steal Spell (3rd) 1 - - -
7 +5 +2 +2 +5 Absorb Spell 1 - - -
8 +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Steal Spell (4th) 1 0 - -
9 +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 Arcane Sight, Sneak Attack +3d6 1 0 - -
10 +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Steal Spell (5th) 1 1 - -
11 +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Spellgrace +2, Steal Energy Resistance 20 1 1 0 -
12 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Steal Spell (6th) 1 1 1 -
13 +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Discover Spells, Sneak Attack +4d6 1 1 1 -
14 +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Steal Spell (7th) 2 1 1 0
15 +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Steal Spell Resistance 2 1 1 1
16 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Steal Spell (8th) 2 2 1 1
17 +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Sneak Attack +5d6 2 2 2 1
18 +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Steal Spell (9th) 3 2 2 1
19 +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Steal Energy Resistance 30 3 3 3 2
20 +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Absorb Spell (Immediate Casting), Spellgrace +3 3 3 3 3

Spells Known


Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
4 2' - - -
5 2 - - -
6 3 - - -
7 3 - - -
8 4 2' - -
9 4 2 - -
10 4 3 - -
11 4 3 2' -
12 4 4 3 -
13 4 4 3 -
14 4 4 4 2'
15 4 4 4 3
16 4 4 4 3
17 5 4 4 4
18 5 5 4 4
19 5 5 5 4
20 5 5 5 5

'-A spellthief only knows these spells if he has a sufficient Charisma score to have a bonus spell of this level.

Hit die: d6

Class Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Jump, Knowledge(arcana), Knowledge(local), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device

Skill points: 6 + Int modifier


Class Features


Proficiencies: Spellthieves are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor (but not shields). A spell theif can cast spellthief spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Sneak Attack (Ex): As the rogue ability. Damage increases as above.
Trapfinding (Ex): At 1st level, as the rogue ability.
Steal Spell (Su): A spellthief that deals sneak attack damage against a foe with spellcasting abillities may forgo 1d6 damage to steal a spell (slot for spontaneous casters, actual prepared spell for preparing casters) of a level depending on spellthief level (see table). The spellthief selects a spell to steal, which he gets if it is there; otherwise, the DM determines it randomly. The ability does nothing if the target has no spells prepared or has no remaining spell slots. A willing person can 'give' a spell by allowing the spellthief a standard action to touch them and take a spell. Next round, the spellthief may cast it, but it is cast as if the owner had cast it (spell DC, range, etc.) The spellthief must provide all components normally required to cast the spell. A spellthief can store up to half his class level in stolen spells. He can't apply metamagic to these stolen spells unless they were prepared as such.
Detect Magic (Sp): A second level spellthief can cast detect magic as a spell-like ability a number of times equal to his charisma modifier (minimum 1).
Spellgrace (Su): A spellthief of 2nd level or higher gains +1 competence bonus on all saves against spells, increases to +2 at 11th, and +3 at 20th
Steal Spell Effect (Su): A spellthief of 2nd level of higher can steal an active spell effect from a creature by forgoing 1d6 points of sneak attack damage. The spell must have been able to be cast on the spellthief initially (e.g. mage armor can be stolen, but true strike cannot). He keeps it for 1 minute per class level or until the effect expires naturally. A spell thief may take a spell effect from a willing creature with a standard action.
Steal Energy Resistance (Su): At 3rd level, a spellthief may steal a portion of a creature's energy resistance with a successful sneak attack, forgoing 1d6 sneak attack damage to steal 10 energy resistance from the affected creature. The creature's resistance is subsequently reduced by 10 for the duration, which is 1 minute. Resistance can be taken from a willing target with a standard actionl creatures with immunity keep the immunity. At 11th, the amount increases to 20, at 19th 30.
Spells: At fourth level, a spellthief gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, with caster level as half class level, and the spells known on the table above. His spells are selected from the abjuration, enchantment, divination, illusion, and transmutation schools on the Sorc/Wizard list. His spells per day chart is identical to the ranger or paladin's, but charisma is his casting stat. He casts spontaneously. A spellthief can cast spells in light armor without spell failure.
Steal Spell-Like Ability (Su): At 5th level, as Steal Spell, but with spell-like abilities instead, and the creature cannot use the ability as long as the spellthief still has it, up to one minute.
Absorb Spell (Su): At 7th level, whenever a spellthief makes a successful save against a spell that targets him, he may attempt to absorb it. To do so, he must suceed on a class level check against DC 10+spell's caster level. Once absorbed, the spellthief can cast it normally on his action or use the energy to cast one of his own spells known. At 20th level he can cast the spell, or use the energy to cast his own spell, as an immedaite action.
Arcane Sight (Sp): A 9th level spellthief gains the ability to use arcane sight as a swift action a number of times per day equal to his charisma modifier (minimum 1).
Discover Spells (Ex): A spellthief of 13th level who steals a spell from a caster discovers which spells of the same level that spellcaster has prepared (or knows, for sorcerors/favored souls).
Steal Spell Resistance (Su): At 15th level, as Steal Spell, but instead of stealing spells, it reduces the enemies spell resistance by 5, and the spellthief gains spell resistance equal to 5+class level (maximum equal to the original spell resistance of the target). A spellthief forgoes 3d6 sneak attack damage to use this ability, and it remains for a number of rounds equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Sheriff of Moddingham: We'd really prefer that you link to where this non-SRD, non-OGL material has been made available by WotC - rather than reproduce it all here. But since they did offer it as part of the CAdv preview, (as noted by the link below), I'll leave it here.

[Sornjss Lichdom]

man, ty you kindly.

oh and ill look into the hexblade thing, change it to int, and add some fighting cappabilaties to it.

[DraPrime]

Spellthief is from Complete Adventurer, but it's really dependent on fighting spellcasters. If you don't fight any you're usefulness drops.

[deadseashoals]

Clerics and Druids make the best fighting/casting hybrids :smallbiggrin: Probably not what you meant, however. If your DM allows psionics, Psychic Warrior makes a very good fighter/caster hybrid.

[Fax Celestis]

Spellthief is from Complete Adventurer, but it's really dependent on fighting spellcasters. If you don't fight any you're usefulness drops.

Well, or having spellcasters in the party that'll let you borrow their spells.

[ChaosDefender24]

I like Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana/SRD, it's nice if you want to play something remotely like a traditional gish while using only one class. The duskblade naturally plays completely differently, using the majority of his spells to do extra damage spellsword-style as opposed to buffing one's self up.

[Gralamin]

Here is a link to the Spellthief:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=1

[Azerian Kelimon]

Swordsage. Use the variant described in their section that allows them to use BOTH common magic and blademagic. Enjoy what might be second only to a few casters.

[Fax Celestis]

Swordsage. Use the variant described in their section that allows them to use BOTH common magic and blademagic. Enjoy what might be second only to a few casters.

Utterly, utterly broken.

[Kurald Galain]

Or, just to throw in something alternative, a Swashbuckler / Wizard / Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom.

Although frankly Duskblade is better.

[Azerian Kelimon]

*Revels in the thought of pitting a level 30 party against a level 23 arcane swordsage variant*

I'm shuddering. What I've suggested is likely a bigger oversight than allowing a facotum/factotum gestalt whose abilities double up. It's effectively a single class per level gestat.

[Hawriel]

silly me I would just make a fight/mage or sorc and call it a day

[Azerian Kelimon]

But that requires multiclassing. Jus' use the swordy. And if you gestalt, with this variant it's a three gestalted char. You cast 9th level spells, use 9th level maneuvers, and are a jack 'o all trades at everything else.

DM's scream in pain now.

[Fizban]

If Duskblade doesn't have enough spells for you, then there's always the Battle Sorcerer Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer).

[Miles Invictus]

In terms of spells known and spells per day, you're better off taking Fighter 1/Sorcerer X/Eldritch Knight X over Battle Sorcerer.

I'd rather go Duskblade, though, and persuade the DM to modify the spell list.

[Generic PC]

I can vouch for Duskblades awesomeness. Honestly, casting in Adamantine Full Plate is great (via battle Caster). even better when you can do more damage than a pure fighter (with a channelled spell) and have a better AC. This actually happened to my Dwarf (I know. mold breaking!?!?!) duskblade. the fighter had more hitpoints, but that was the only way in which he was a better tank than me. In other words, a Duskblade can be dangerous.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

A Mystic Swordsage is the perfect class for me. Infinite customization. Folks complain that there is no school for archery when all one needs is the variant and every bowman's dream in terms of spells is on call. The assassin selection from FR alone is priceless. Sure, one can pull all kinds of broken behavior from the build, but that's only if you are playing out of the spirit of the thing.

[Kurald Galain]

If Duskblade doesn't have enough spells for you, then there's always the Battle Sorcerer Variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer).

Ironically, the battle sorcerer actually knows less spells than the duskblade, until level 12 or so, and can cast them less often per day. They do get higher-level spells earlier, though.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Spellthief or Hexblade are okay, though Duskblade is really really awesome at this.

I wouldn't say "really really awesome." I'd lean more towards "They don't suck at it like the Hexblade." They're probably a bit overpowered early on (see "Dice Bag Duskblade" for doing more than a dozen dice of damage at very low level, like 1-5) and then kind of slack off after the first few levels thanks to a sloppy spell list (seriously, they actually stop getting new touch spells). CharOp tells you to multiclass out of it to get useful touch spells. Still, the Duskblade is solid for 20 levels, and will always do loads and loads of damage.

Cleric and Druid are much more effective caster/fighters, and I find Psychic Warrior to be nicely designed from my experience.

Another option is the Battle Sorceror from UA.

Personally, I've never found any of the arcane/martial blends offered by WotC to be particularly satisfying from a design perspective, and I had been considering writing my own for quite a while, though I never quite got around to it (I did make a handful of Duskblade variants, though, expanding the types of characters you could build and the number of concepts you could fulfill using just that class). Duskblade and Battle Sorceror are about as good as it gets, though.

Oh, and of course, though not designed for melee, pure Wizards and Sorcerors can use clever tactics to do well in it. And also of course, there are gish builds using PrCs that get near-full BAB, lots of special abilities, casting in lots of armor, and 9th level spells, but that are incredibly sloppy before mid-level or so.


A Mystic Swordsage is the perfect class for me. Infinite customization. Folks complain that there is no school for archery when all one needs is the variant and every bowman's dream in terms of spells is on call. The assassin selection from FR alone is priceless. Sure, one can pull all kinds of broken behavior from the build, but that's only if you are playing out of the spirit of the thing.

On the subject of an archery ToB style, see the "Falling Star Style" thread. Creates the Falling Star discipline, which is focused on archery, and includes only a couple supernatural maneuvers which have the special requirement of being under an open sky (much like the Stone Dragon maneuvers require you to be earthbound).

[Sornjss Lichdom]

Hem Hem, I cant do a full caster, which any type of sorc, druid, or cleric would fall under. though to burst everybodies bubble, all spell casting has been removed, rangers and pladins have to take the combat varient in CW. But i think when we get to PrC we get spell casting, with a cut spell list, like the assassin.

[serow]

Psychic Warrior.
The most balanced fighter-mage class in existence.

Unless you want broken, then you might wanna try something else.

EDIT:

Hem Hem, I cant do a full caster, which any type of sorc, druid, or cleric would fall under. though to burst everybodies bubble, all spell casting has been removed, rangers and pladins have to take the combat varient in CW. But i think when we get to PrC we get spell casting, with a cut spell list, like the assassin.In that case, maybe a Suel Arcanamach from Complete Arcane.