How boned am i without mindblank and freedom of movement at epic levels?

[Voidstar01]

I REALLY want to sell my cowl of warding to buy some Psychoactive Skins (proteus and troll). But I have an inkling of a thought that that's a bad decision, I have immunity to paralysis and sleep effects racially but...

[Efrate]

Well if anything hits you in melee without fom you are grappled and will never escape because you cannot hope to compete with grapple modifiers unless you specificly build for it. Or any terrain that is disadvantageous, or nearly any spell/effect that creates a lingering effect, or webs, or severe undergrowth, Especially in epic.

As long as you avoid anything with the ability to read thoughts, have mindsight, or use any enchantment spell or effect ever, or any fear effect, or frightful presence, or any other charm or compulsion and possibly has ranks in diplomacy you can function in without mind Blank.

So you are okay versus mundane archers that are humanoid.

With epic wbl, you should be able to afford your skins with just a few encounters. Nothing they give you is going to compete with blanket immunity to most effects that affect you. Get a soulfire something and you have immunized to most common attack methods.

Skins are good, but shutting off nearly an entire school of magic and the most common special attack method of everything is better.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Quick and easy solutions, for cheap: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items

(Note: There is a banner of protection from evil that affects all allies within a 30' radius in Heroes of Battle for 8,000 gp. Also, if you want a 3/day command item, go with the psionic power personal mind blank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindBlankPersonal.htm) made by a psychic warrior for a version 2 levels lower; it's 3/day in case of dispelling.)

[edit] (And heart of water grants freedom of movement when you need it. A 3/day item, or even just a wand, is much cheaper than a ring or that cowl.)

[Zaq]

Like anything else, it depends on the encounters you face. But if your GM treats Epic as more than “like non-Epic, but with bigger numbers,” you’re likely to be happy for defenses that hard-nope the attacks that would prevent you from getting to play.

[Asmotherion]

-Not having imunity to divination will result in scry-teleport assasination eventually.

-Not being imune to mind affecting will result in you being dominated.

-Not being imune to graples and control spells will result with you in a graple or rendered useless by simple spells such as Evard's B.T. or Solid Fog variants.

And also have a way of being imune to Death Effects and Energy Drain. Otherwise don't expect to stay Epic for long.


The only reason it's more passable at lower levels to be without those imunities is because you don't face enemies with access to those methodes at the same frequency. At epic levels virtually every creature has one or more ways to get you under those effects.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd encourage you to get as many "no buttons" as possible in epic. The more immunities you have, the safer you'll be. That's why I linked that thread and suggested what I did. Those two effects are extremely important, since they're the equivalents of highly potent, wide-spectrum antibiotics. Add in some immunity from death effects via death ward armor, or what have you, and both 50% miss chance (for immunity from targeted effects, including attacks of opportunity), improved evasion (for protection against AoEs) and some sort of extra protection against ranged attacks (such as Exceptional Deflection) and you should have a fairly decent suite of defenses going. More is better, of course, so get as many as you reasonably can (preferably for as cheaply as possible).

The psychoactive skin of proteus can grant you a ton of immunities if you choose the right forms for the right situations, though I don't think the skin of the troll will be terribly useful. Remember, every time you use the psychoactive skin of proteus, you recover hit points as though you've rested for 8 hours. You've got plenty of at-will healing available, right there.

[Sutr]

The mind blank can be ignored if you can get a protection from some alignment. Mind blank can even be worse if you have a dedicated bard.

[Quertus]

Well, the Quertus school of surviving epic level definitely endorses a "just say no" attitude. Plenty of other epic characters - including some of my own - have not adhered to this strategy. Basically, it boils down to how much of what kind(s) of risk do you want the character to experience*? Do you want to risk being mind controlled, and attacking your party? Do you want to risk being grappled / turned to stone / disintegrated, and be sitting out until your party Resurrects you? Do you want to risk being level drained, possibly permanently, possibly to death? There are no right answers to these questions - this is simply a matter of preference, of what type of game you want to play (with this character).

But, short answer? From an efficiency standpoint, those are both rather important for getting to "play/win the game". Any chance a party member could just cast them on you?

* Plus, what are they likely to encounter. If you're diving into Hell with a bad Will save, and no protection from fear, expect that you'll be running away a lot.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Against generic monsters Mind Blank is not too critical and can even trip you up. Custom built NPCs and monsters on the other hand you risk being one shot by a mind affecting attack. However improved grab with triple digit grapple modifiers exists and will render your character permanently inoperable even after the -20 for the monster ignoring the grapple so I highly recommend having a defense against grapple at minimum if not outright FoM (available as a ring as well).

[Voidstar01]

So what i'm understanding is this: I NEED mindblank, but my build in particular could probably function without freedom of movement (breath blasting dragon that functions at 90% efficiency when taking exclusively double move actions) because the best way to avoid effect is to just not be there. I think ill replace the cowl of warding with a ring of mental fortitude (I don't think my DM is the kind of guy to scry assassinate people) and a ring of freedom of movement (cheaper) since my ringslots are currently empty, then replace my bag of holding to a lower tired version to pay for skin of the proteus.

[danielxcutter]

So what i'm understanding is this: I NEED mindblank, but my build in particular could probably function without freedom of movement (breath blasting dragon that functions at 90% efficiency when taking exclusively double move actions) because the best way to avoid effect is to just not be there. I think ill replace the cowl of warding with a ring of mental fortitude (I don't think my DM is the kind of guy to scry assassinate people) and a ring of freedom of movement (cheaper) since my ringslots are currently empty, then replace my bag of holding to a lower tired version to pay for skin of the proteus.

Your. Ring. Slots. Are. Empty.

How in the Nine Hells did you guys get to Epic?

Seriously, there are literally hundreds of rings in 3.5e, probably, and you didn't even get one? What's the optimization level and what does your build look like?

As a side note, many "no buttons", so to speak, can be replicated at least partially with spellcasting; either your own or an ally's.

[Psyren]

The mind blank can be ignored if you can get a protection from some alignment. Mind blank can even be worse if you have a dedicated bard.

I wouldn't say it can be ignored necessarily. You'll be protected from dominate and charm, but lots of epic monsters can hold you or drive you crazy instead, and pro:evil does nothing there.

[Sutr]

That's fair, Ignored is too strong mitigated is better. More posted due to last time I played epic I used a smite to song paladin. We had a new guy swear by mind blank and get eaten missing plus ten to all saves and attack rolls.

That is an edge case though.