Warforged Integrated Plating Question

[Khrysaes]

When you make a Warforged on D&D Beyond, it defines the integrated plating bonus as an unarmored bonus, regardless of plating type.

Is this accurate? Could I be a heavy plated warforged monk and still use my monk abilities?

[Greywander]

I believe the darkwood core counts as unarmored, but composite or heavy plating counts as wearing armor. So for a monk I think you'd need to use the darkwood core.

On the other hand, for things like the Defense fighting style or Heavy Armor Master, I think the heavier plating would count as armor for the purpose of gaining those bonuses.

[Khrysaes]

I believe the darkwood core counts as unarmored, but composite or heavy plating counts as wearing armor. So for a monk I think you'd need to use the darkwood core.

On the other hand, for things like the Defense fighting style or Heavy Armor Master, I think the heavier plating would count as armor for the purpose of gaining those bonuses.

Thats what I figured, and as a DM i would rule it as such. I just thought it was interesting that on DnDBeyond that it is marked as unarmored. Additionally, when you select the defense fighting style it doesn't add its bonus regardless of what plating style is picked.

[Dualswinger]

The irritating thing for Warforged I’ve found from most official sources is that it’s basically whatever is least helpful.

The “heavy” option counts as wearing armour for things like Monks or Bladesingers, but not for armoured fighting style or Forge Cleric bonuses.

[TyGuy]

The irritating thing for Warforged I’ve found from most official sources is that it’s basically whatever is least helpful.

The “heavy” option counts as wearing armour for things like Monks or Bladesingers, but not for armoured fighting style or Forge Cleric bonuses.

This. Not sure how it's irritating since it would be broken otherwise, it's already really good.

You need armor proficiency for the composite and heavy. You gain no benefit from armor, like defensive fighting style. But you aren't unarmored, so you can't tack on unarmored defense, mage armor, draconic resilience, etc.

[JackPhoenix]

This. Not sure how it's irritating since it would be broken otherwise, it's already really good.

You need armor proficiency for the composite and heavy. You gain no benefit from armor, like defensive fighting style. But you aren't unarmored, so you can't tack on unarmored defense, mage armor, draconic resilience, etc.

OTOH, it's not HEAVY armor, so you can take heavy plating and not lose barbarian abilities. Minor benefit, but still a benefit.

[Dualswinger]

This. Not sure how it's irritating since it would be broken otherwise, it's already really good.

You need armor proficiency for the composite and heavy. You gain no benefit from armor, like defensive fighting style. But you aren't unarmored, so you can't tack on unarmored defense, mage armor, draconic resilience, etc.

I agree, it probably would be broken if it did stack, but KB could have worded it better, or at least been more explicit in what does and doesn't stack in the book.

[stoutstien]

We will have to wait to see of they changed wording in the new book. I doubt it but I can hope they cleaned up the text.

[Nagog]

To be fair, no race with natural armor stacks with Monk' or Barbarian's Unarmored Defense, as both of them state that your AC is 10+Dex+(Relevant stat), rather than the Bladesong one that states "Add your Int bonus to your AC". That being said, if you wanted to go Darkwood Core Bladesinger then multiclass into Monk, you'll have 3 stats factored into your AC while Bladesong is active, giving you a nice chunk of AC when you need it. MAD as all hell, but equally Tanky.

[Reevh]

I've always thought that a warforged Cleric 1/Wizard X would be an unreasonably tanky character.

[Khrysaes]

To be fair, no race with natural armor stacks with Monk' or Barbarian's Unarmored Defense, as both of them state that your AC is 10+Dex+(Relevant stat), rather than the Bladesong one that states "Add your Int bonus to your AC". That being said, if you wanted to go Darkwood Core Bladesinger then multiclass into Monk, you'll have 3 stats factored into your AC while Bladesong is active, giving you a nice chunk of AC when you need it. MAD as all hell, but equally Tanky.

Except by RAW you cant be a warforged bladesinger. Nor would you have 3 stats to ac, as it would be 11 + dex + prof + int. No need to mc monk.

Additionally, the other monk abilities like unarmored speed bonus and martial arts was more of what i was asking for. Not the ac.

As natural armor goes. With the exception of monk/barbarian multiclass it was my understanding that you pick which ac method you want to use. For the multiclass it is whichever comes first.

[CorporateSlave]

Sounds like there is some official ruling otherwise, but as DM, based on the wording (and given that WGTE came out much later than the PHB), I would rule that if the RAW says it counts as "armor" then it is "armor" and follows the rules of what can and cannot stack with armor. (i.e. Composite Plating & Heavy Plating - cannot work with Unarmored Defense, Unarmored Movement, etc.) Darkwood Core (unarmored) would "work" with Unarmored Defense and Unarmored Movement, but does not stack with those, because the general rule in the PHB is: "If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use." So a Monk Warforged with Darkwood Core could either use the Monk Unarmored Defense Feature, or the Warforged Darkwood Core Feature, but not both at the same time.

Now it gets a bit stickier when taking about stacking with features (such as Feats) which don't explicitly calculate AC, but may give a bonus (Defense fighting style) or some other advantage like damage reduction (Heavy Armor Master).

Frankly, I would have a hard time ruling against Defense Fighting Style functioning as per normal. All the RAW says is: "While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC." The RAW for Warforged: "Composite Plating (armor)" and "Heavy Plating (armor)". They both rather explicitly use the word "armor." Sure, further up it says: "You gain no benefit from wearing armor,..." but it ought to be pretty clear they mean "You get no benefit to your AC from wearing armor," I mean, a suit of the King's Guard's plate mail with visor down could provide the benefit of disguise (or a smaller Warforged could potentially use it as concealment to "hide in plain sight") we're saying that can't work for a Warforged because it might be interpreted as a Benefit?

By the same token, I would have misgivings about Heavy Plating (armor) being compatible with Barbarian Rage. It even has both the words "heavy" and "armor" in it!

But for that matter, either one way or the other ought to work - if it can't stack with Heavy Armor Master because it isn't Heavy Armor, then it ought to work with Rage...because it isn't Heavy Armor.

[Khrysaes]

Sounds like there is some official ruling otherwise, but as DM, based on the wording (and given that WGTE came out much later than the PHB), I would rule that if the RAW says it counts as "armor" then it is "armor" and follows the rules of what can and cannot stack with armor. (i.e. Composite Plating & Heavy Plating - cannot work with Unarmored Defense, Unarmored Movement, etc.) Darkwood Core (unarmored) would "work" with Unarmored Defense and Unarmored Movement, but does not stack with those, because the general rule in the PHB is: "If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use." So a Monk Warforged with Darkwood Core could either use the Monk Unarmored Defense Feature, or the Warforged Darkwood Core Feature, but not both at the same time.

Now it gets a bit stickier when taking about stacking with features (such as Feats) which don't explicitly calculate AC, but may give a bonus (Defense fighting style) or some other advantage like damage reduction (Heavy Armor Master).

Frankly, I would have a hard time ruling against Defense Fighting Style functioning as per normal. All the RAW says is: "While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC." The RAW for Warforged: "Composite Plating (armor)" and "Heavy Plating (armor)". They both rather explicitly use the word "armor." Sure, further up it says: "You gain no benefit from wearing armor,..." but it ought to be pretty clear they mean "You get no benefit to your AC from wearing armor," I mean, a suit of the King's Guard's plate mail with visor down could provide the benefit of disguise (or a smaller Warforged could potentially use it as concealment to "hide in plain sight") we're saying that can't work for a Warforged because it might be interpreted as a Benefit?

By the same token, I would have misgivings about Heavy Plating (armor) being compatible with Barbarian Rage. It even has both the words "heavy" and "armor" in it!

But for that matter, either one way or the other ought to work - if it can't stack with Heavy Armor Master because it isn't Heavy Armor, then it ought to work with Rage...because it isn't Heavy Armor.

Basically my thoughts. Decide if it is or is t armor. Then that ruling stads. Thus if it isnt, heavy plating works as a monk. No need to invest in dex, be a str monk.

So long as its consisten. It just confused me that dnd beyond doesnt have it as armor. Thus not benefitting from defense style or forge cleric.

[Tetrasodium]

When you make a Warforged on D&D Beyond, it defines the integrated plating bonus as an unarmored bonus, regardless of plating type.

Is this accurate? Could I be a heavy plated warforged monk and still use my monk abilities?
By strict raw, yes. By RAI imo, agaun that is a yes. WGTE pg69 has this to say about integrated plating (bold is my doing)

Integrated Protection. Your body has built-in defensive layers, which determine your armor class. You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you apply its bonus as normal.
You can alter your body to enter different defensive modes; each time you finish a long rest, choose one mode to adopt from the Integrated Protection table, provided you meet the mode’s prerequisite.


The question of monk/barbarian UAD type abilities has long been settled by druid (likewise with the Juggernaut iron fist & monk martial arts dice). You can use one or the other but 5e does not have anything like enhancement/natural armor bonuses they do not stack.
If you look at the integrated protection options at the bottom of page 69, there are some that require medium or heavy armor proficiency & darkwood core specifically says unarmored; however... even though composite & heavy plating say "(armor)", nowhere does it say "you are considered to be wearing armor". A warforge in either of those who picks up medium or heavy armor mastery gains zero benefit aside from the statbump because they are not wearing medium or heavy armor, their body is armor as quoted above, the difference is significant. I have both a warforged evoy monk& a warforge juggernaut barbarian in my game & at no point has either been a problem or overpowered compared to the other 3 meat based races. What they are is viscerally different from the others





The irritating thing for Warforged I’ve found from most official sources is that it’s basically whatever is least helpful.

The “heavy” option counts as wearing armour for things like Monks or Bladesingers, but not for armoured fighting style or Forge Cleric bonuses.

you are right about the first part, the second part not somuch as noted above, your body being armor & being considered wearing armor are two different things. A wildshaped druid is not considered to be wearing armor & neither is a lizardfolk or tortle. The druid can wear barding while wildshaped & in eberron druids do not follow Mielikki or any other FR specific deity of nature & the druidic sects are very different meaning there is no mechanical or lore reason for most druidict sects in eberron to follow that particular bit of faerun lore. For whatever reason Wotc says that pretty much any form a druid is capable of transforming into [quote="https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/chris-avellone-and-philip-daigle-planescape-torment-enhanced-edition"]can use a dragonborn's breath weapon[/url ](I'm unaware of any beast lacking a "mouth" & can't imagine any non-plant non-ooze non-aberration without a mouth) yet for whatever reason Wotc ignores both their own advice in the druid podcast and the actual RAW both strict & even the most skeptical reading of "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you
can’t use any of your special senses, such as darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.". The dragonborn only needed a mouth, Warforged plating is plainly stated as being part of their body & unquestionably noet a special sense so like anything with a mouth & dragonborn breathweapon it should work for any wildshape form with a body I suppose it would not apply to an ethereal beast, but I'm not aware of any of those either. For whatever reason Wotc made up rules & changed their spirit of permissiveness guidance (linked podcast) to say no for integrated plating & wildshape/UAD. Wotc is unquestionably in conflict with both RAI, RAW, and lore of the setting that has warforged as extremely different from meat based races. The fact that warforged can do so many things meat based races can't (and vice versa if you include eat/taste/smell without a tracker's mask/wear armor/breed/etc) is a central tenant of the Lord of Blades' ~code/propaganda.

[Khrysaes]

snip.

Okay. So the first part makes sense. Plating is their body, much like a tortle's shell, therefore a heavy plated monk and barbarian is fine, but you gain nothing from forge cleric or defensive fighting style as it is not armor.

Second part makes less sense, and i didnt watch the podcast.

Drqgonborn druids can breath weapon in qnimal form. Mqkes sense if it is a magical effect.

Tortle, lizardfolk, barbarian, and warforged would/should lose their ac, as all of them are derived from physical aspects of their body which dont exist in the new animql one. Though if you kept them that could be fun to roleplay as a robotic animal. Or a bear in a turtle shell, or with scales.

Monk, as when wild shaping you retain your mental stats, qnd their ac is perception or awareness based, should/would keep their ac, or at least the 10 + wis + animal forms dex.

[Tetrasodium]

Okay. So the first part makes sense. Plating is their body, much like a tortle's shell, therefore a heavy plated monk and barbarian is fine, but you gain nothing from forge cleric or defensive fighting style as it is not armor.

Second part makes less sense, and i didnt watch the podcast.

Drqgonborn druids can breath weapon in qnimal form. Mqkes sense if it is a magical effect.
The quote was something like "so basicaly anything with lungs can use it then?" > "I'd actually go a lfew steps further & say anything with a mouth."

Both current mechanics & Established lore puts warforged plating in the same "magic" as the dragonborn's breathweapon in more than one way. The first uses only 5e rules... Back in 3.5 a rust monster was near beholder class scary to warforged. In 5e, the rust monster antennae has no effect non magical ferrous equipment, the warforged plating is unaffected on grounds that it is magical. The second is the fact that it has long been established you can't simply mine adamantine or mithral by killing warforged (composite & heavy plating used to be adamantine/mithral body feats). The reason being: (http://keith-baker.com/eberron-thoughts-do-warforged-dream-of-iron-defenders/)

Continuing with the discussion of healing, warforged heal in two ways. First, I’ve always seen warforged as doing a certain amount of self-smithing… mending and patching while others are sleeping. However remember that warforged are in part living creatures. Even aside from the livewood tendrils, their metal components aren’t dead metal. A warforged juggernaut literally grows spikes on his armor… and pieces of metal sliced off a warforged will corrode, which is why you can’t strip adamantine-plated warforged and sell them for parts. Warforged are made of steel, leather, and stone, but all of these elements are magical in nature; they are living constructs.





Tortle, lizardfolk, barbarian, and warforged would/should lose their ac, as all of them are derived from physical aspects of their body which dont exist in the new animql one. Though if you kept them that could be fun to roleplay as a robotic animal. Or a bear in a turtle shell, or with scales.

Monk, as when wild shaping you retain your mental stats, qnd their ac is perception or awareness based, should/would keep their ac, or at least the 10 + wis + animal forms dex.

You might have a valid point with regards to the nonmagical scales & shell of lizardfolk & tortle. However, your point falls dead by the fact that it is entirely unsupported by RAW and the fact that warforged plating is both part of their body as well as magical. If a dragonborn's magical breathweapon works on anything with a mouth per wotc, then a warforged body's magical plating should by extension have that plating work on anything with a body.

Wotc has this bizarre tradition of ignoring RAW & making up rules when it comes to druids. In the wildshape podcast (linked earlier) they say that wildshape is written in the spirit of permissiveness because it would be impossible to write anything not encyclopedic that encapsulates every possibility, then when a case like warforged plating or tortle shell/lizardfolk scales they say "but wait it needs to be magical" even though there are no rules supporting that houserule out of wotc. When warforged plating is magical, they say "but wait beasts aren't living constructs"... beasts are also not humanoids, dragonborn, dwarves, half orcs, or any other race... but all of those get their nonsensory racial traits in wildshape by both plain and strict reading of RAW.

Now if wotc wants to be honest & admit that warforged plating doesn't work in wildshape because they are still punishind druids for the sins of 3.5's coDzilla, great! go for it & gm's can make their choice with eyes wide open instead of thinking there must be some reason they aren't seeing. As to monk & barian UAD, it doesn't seem like there is any question whatsoever.