First-time 3.5 player - how to build these character concepts

[Leoben1987]

Hi! I'm a long-time lurker but first-time poster looking for some character help.

I've played 2e, 5e, and a bunch of Star Wars D20. I played 3.5 once but that was around 15 years ago so I'm very rusty. I'm familiar with D&D in general and have played RPGs for over a decade so I have a strong understanding of game rules and mechanics, but 3.5 is particular in that it offers a ton of character building options, so many that it's very hard to decide how to build them. I have a couple of character concepts in mind and I was hoping that the experts on the board could point me in the right direction.

Concept 1:
A human that was orphaned and raised in an abandoned keep on a mountaintop by a dragon. The dragon is killed by dragon-hunters but the character escapes and comes down from the mountain looking for revenge. I originally thought of this concept for 5e and was going to build it as a Draconic/Ancients Sorcadin. It was going to be a gish with War Caster and Great Weapon Master that used Green Flame Blade, Booming Blade, and Sorcerer slot smites to wreck things in melee while throwing out the occasional fire element spell. Some combos I wanted to do were Dragon's Breath + Quickened GFB for fire-damage stacking, quicked booming blade + multiattack, etc.

Concept 2:
An adolescent magic savant that plays into the manic pixie dream girl trope. She is good-natured, very strong-willed, quirky, etc. but when she gets angry she incinerates everything around her. She sometimes messes up and goes a little too far. She could be either an innate magic-user or a learned user, but her identity should be a split between providing utility and nuking. The main thing is I don't want her to feel 'vanilla'. I know specialized evokers are very good at incinerating things, but I've read about them and I'm looking for something with a little bit more flavor. I'd like the character to have an interesting combo so that her play pattern in fights isn't just casting fire-element spells over and over again.

Regarding the campaign setting and requirements, we're playing Ptolus. The DM has told us that it will be relatively easy to access magic items and equipment because the setting is very high magic.

Books we are allowed to use are the following:
- Player's Handbook
- Player's Handbook 2
- Complete Adventurer
- Complete Arcane
- Complete Champion
- Complete Divine
- Complete Mage
- Complete Scoundrel
- Complete Warrior
- Heroes of Battle
- Heroes of Horror
- Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords

Other info:
We're starting at level 1, and I think the idea is going 1-20 (or until we all die in an unsalvageable situation), and we are rolling for stats. In terms of how min-maxy I am as a player, I like my characters to be powerful, but I don't want to build a character that is super contrived just to be able to pull off some obscure combo with a dozen moving parts. I'm willing to sacrifice some effectiveness if the flavor of the character is right.

I know this is a huge ask and I certainly don't expect anyone to build me a full character, I'd just like to know different options to approximate these concepts and to get an idea of how they would behave in game, when they'd come online, etc.

Many thanks to everyone for your help :)

[Kayblis]

Welcome back to 3.5!:smallbiggrin:

3.5 is a system with tons of options and can fit almost any concept somewhat effectively. One big change from 5e you'll notice is that all classes are straight, 5/10/20-level classes with no branching paths. 3.5 encourages multiclassing to fit a character's concept, so it's common to see "Barbarian builds" that have 4 levels of Barbarian alongside Fighter, Ranger, and others. The mechanical focus is what dictates the build. Also, there are Prestige Classes(PrC), which are special classes with prerequisites to enter, and work as elite, focused classes that represent organizations or realized concepts. Most of them are available from level 6 onwards.

The first concept fits well into a Dragonfire Adept. It's a class from Dragon Magic, maybe you can talk with your DM about it, and it's based around using the powers of dragons, specially their breath attack. They're not strong melee combatants and wield no magic, but they have many unique features such as incantations that provide team support and special buffs.
Other than the DFA, you have Sorcerers with draconic bloodlines, half-dragons, Silverbrow humans, and Dragonborns, that fit the concept to varying degrees. For PrCs there's the Dragon Disciple from the DMG, an admittedly not good class, but fits the concept pretty well.

For the second, I believe you can make it shine with simple Sorcerer, maybe with the fey bloodline. Wizard Evoker fits the concept too, and you can take any focused wizard into the Master Specialist PrC for freebies and minor abilities related to the school. There's also a thing called Reserve Feats, which gives you at-will abilities as long as you have an unspent spell of that kind prepared - so Fiery Burst lets you do an at-will fire burst in an area that deals damage equal to 1d6 times the highest fire spell you have prepared(3d6 for a prepared fireball, 4d6 for a Fire Shield, etc) without expending the spell. This lets you effectively cast low-level damage all day for the cost of a feat. Sorcerers just need to know a spell of that level and have a free slot, and with metamagic like Heighten you can count any spell known as "able to cast" the spell at any higher level.
Wizard has more utility because more spells known, Sorcerer has more fire power because more spell slots and no need to prepare them.

[Mr Adventurer]

It's interesting, in your first concept I had no idea what you wanted it to actually do until you told me your 5e plans for it. You can make draconic-themed, sorcerous gishes easily in this edition and I'd probably recommend something like Warblade 1/Sorcerer 4/Warblade +1/Abjurant Champion 5 to start out.

I wouldn't recommend Dragonfire Adept as I don't see any overlap between that class' capabilities and what it looks like you actually want to do.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For the first one, the standard 3.5 Sorcadin is Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8. Take Arcane Strike to pump spell slots into your attacks, and use Wraithstrike with two-handed Power Attack for huge full attacks.

For someone who likes to make fire, go with an Archivist in HoH, as you'll be able to access just about every spell in the game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?445204-Lowest-level-versions-of-spells) (it's in the spoiler in the first post). Flavor the character as a collector of ancient and forbidden knowledge, and probably pick up Paragnostic Apostle and/or Seeker of the Misty Isle after Archivist 11. I'd make this character a Gray Elf in the core Monster Manual.

[Elves]

I think the second concept fits a spontaneous spellcaster best. If she has to prepare all those fireballs at the start of the day, she has to plan to be angry, which makes it less surprising and impulsive when she does go off. The idea of the magic changing to match her mood is spontaneous much more than prepared.

So I recommend a blaster sorcerer for her.

Edit: yes there are reserve feats but they don't exactly form impressive novas.

[Silvercrys]

I want to second the 3.5 Sorcadin for the first character, no need to change it too much just need the right prestige classes (Spellsword is a DMG prestige class, Abjurant Champion is a Complete Mage one, Sacred Exorcist is in Complete Divine). Straight Duskblade from the Player's Handbook II wouldn't be a miss, either, it's like the 5e Paladin but it casts arcane spells.

For the second you have a few different options.

Straight Sorcerer is good, as mentioned.

Warlock (Complete Arcane) is a pretty good conceptual match, it's primarily a blaster but you can take a bunch of shapes to change the area of your blasts from round to round and you get some utility (but not a ton) in the form of at-will powers like all day flight and at-will invisibility. The 3.5 Warlock isn't bound to pact making flavor like the 5e one is, if that's a concern.

Could even multiclass Warlock with Sorcerer and take the Eldritch Theruge prestige class in Complete Mage, too, if you want more utility (though you won't get 9th level spells that way unless your DM will let you qualify for Eldritch Disciple with a Lesser Chasuble of Fell Power or something).

There's also Swordsage from Tome of Battle, you can set your weapons on fire and get some fire blast maneuvers from the Desert Wind discipline, but your magical utility is basically zip here.

[Zaq]

It's a shame you can't use psionics, because I love the feel of the erudite for #2. Makes it actually cost you options to unleash the fire, but it also makes it so you aren't ignoring half your powers if you don't go into burnination mode.

But if it's banned, it's banned.

You could maybe go with a fixed-list caster (warmage, dread necromancer, or beguiler) and focus on hacking extra spells onto your list? Hack on utility spells if you use warmage as a base and hack on fiery spells if you use beguiler or DN as a base. (The idea is that fixed-list casters know their entire lists at once but usually only get spells in a particular theme. Using feats and other game elements, though, you can add extra spells to their lists.)

[Mordante]

Maybe you can plan your first 4 or 5 levels when starting a new campaign from level 1. But do you really expect to reach level 20 in the foreseeable future? The campaign might change, your needs might change. The party might change. What seemed like a great idea at the start when you were level one might be not so great when you reach level 10 maybe a year later.

Just think of a nice background story and go from there.

When I were to start from lvl 1 or at least sub level 5. My background story would be fairly simple. A low level character would IMHO be relative young, from human perspective late teens early 20's. So there wouldn't be years of heroic stuff or anything really special. Just a kid growing up, on the street, in a noble court or where ever.

[Leoben1987]

Thanks all for the great responses! You've given me some very interesting ideas.

I'm going to look into the 3.5 equivalent of the Sorcadin as it looks like it would be more interesting to play than a full caster. I have a couple more questions about this build: what does its standard routine look like in combat, and how long does it take for it come online?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Thanks all for the great responses! You've given me some very interesting ideas.

I'm going to look into the 3.5 equivalent of the Sorcadin as it looks like it would be more interesting to play than a full caster. I have a couple more questions about this build: what does its standard routine look like in combat, and how long does it take for it come online?
Sorcadins don't really come online until level 8, when you're taking your first level in Abjurant Champion. Before that point, you have less than 3/4 base attack, and less than 3/4 spellcasting. As such, they're not great to play from level 1, particularly around level 4-5.

In combat, you focus on making full attacks, using swift-action buff spells like wraithstrike along with full Power Attack. Before combat, you have significant buff spells to cast; some last a long time (hour/level spells, at higher levels also 10 min/level spells with Extend Spell), some you have to cast before an encounter (lion's charge, haste, and polymorph, for example). Note that polymorph (and draconic polymorph, the upgraded version) grant Pounce when used to change your shape to a bladerager troll, which is a great all-round fighting form.

The "next level up" from a standard sorcadin mainly deals with buff spells; more specifically, it deals with extending their duration through Persistent Spell. There are a few ways to get free metamagic to make this work; the easiest ones are Incantatrix 3 and Spelldancer 1.

[Falontani]

1. Honestly it sounds like you are a fun gish type. I would look into Swordsage, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Duskblade. You can really make a gish out of anything, but Sorcadin is the classic gish. A warblade/Sorcerer into Jade Phoenix Mage could be potent.

2. Psionic is really what your character sounds like, specifically either a Wilder or Erudite into Anarchic Initiate. Instead then look at Sorcerer into Wild Soul, or perhaps a Spirit Shaman.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I played a Sorcadin from 1st level. It basically plays like a Paladin that gradually gets spells. Wear armor at first and get low level spells with no somatic components.