[Pathfinder 1e] Construct Armor?

[Jack_Simth]

Trying to sort out Construct Armor (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/building-and-modifying-constructs/?/#Construct_Armor)...


Construct Armor

Requirements: Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells animate objects, the construct modified must be the same size as the creator

CR increase: +1

Cost: 35,000 gp

This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer first damage the construct. When a construct is destroyed while serving as armor, the wearer loses all the benefits, but regains all the hindrances until the armor is removed, which takes the same amount of time that removing breastplate armor does. If the construct is still active, the creator can order the removal of the armor with a swift action, at which point the construct leaves the creator’s space and enters a space adjacent to the creator. Donning construct armor takes a full-round action if the construct is still active. The creator cannot don a construct with this modification if the construct has been destroyed. The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.

Various questions....
1) Is that "Cost" listed "increase in crafting cost" or "increase in Market price" - as in, does it add 35 days to the time to create, or 70?
2) "the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator" - So does this mean that if I decide to wade into melee while wearing a construct that has a full attack routine with three attacks, that I use those three attacks (as I'm controlling it), or am I stuck with just using my melee weapon (in either case, I explicitly use my own BAB)?
3) In either case of 2, do I use the Construct's strength & dexterity scores, or mine?
4) Do I use it's movement modes & speeds, or my own?

[StSword]

By RAW, construct armor in pathfinder gives you no non defensive benefits.

Since attacks that hit hit the golem, the golem's defensive abilities like magic immunity and damage resistance would naturally apply to those attacks.

Other than that, you get nothing.

Unless you take the swift action to have the golem remove itself and fight by your side.

So if you're trying to play a tank, it's very useful. If your someone who can arrange for defense without armor, you can use it for a stealth pet, so useful. Other than that, not so much.

If your table allows third party material, there are certainly books with more generous options.

Monster Menagerie The Construct Companion includes the Mobile Suit Golem modification that allows one to pilot a golem and use all its physical attributes, attacks, etc, as would make sense to begin with.

They also produced the Four Horsemen Presents: Base Class Engineer, which can be summed up at "Iron Man, with golems."

[Jack_Simth]

By RAW, construct armor in pathfinder gives you no non defensive benefits.

Since attacks that hit hit the golem, the golem's defensive abilities like magic immunity and damage resistance would naturally apply to those attacks.

Other than that, you get nothing.

Unless you take the swift action to have the golem remove itself and fight by your side.

So if you're trying to play a tank, it's very useful. If your someone who can arrange for defense without armor, you can use it for a stealth pet, so useful. Other than that, not so much.


This would also imply that I don't get any non-listed penalties associated with it, wouldn't it? E.g., if the construct I'm wearing has a speed of 20 feet, and I have a move of 30 normally, I keep my move of 30 while wearing the construct (because "counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure" - speed is not on the list). Likewise, if the construct has a status condition (other than "Destroyed") it doesn't affect me at all.

[Silvercrys]

Well, it seems to be "yes" to speed and "No" to status effects by RAW.

For speed, yes, it explicitly calls out a bunch of ways it is like a breastplate without mentioning speed reduction, as you said. It might not even count as wearing medium armor for abilities that are restricted by armor type... though it also refers to "donning the construct armor" so it probably counts as some kind of armor for Monk abilities, etc.

As far as status effects, the text specifies that attacks damage the construct first without specifying what happens to status conditions, so I think they affect you by default; the Construct Armor appears to simply be acting as an additional pool of HP for your character.

That said, it might be reasonable to interpret either or both of those the other way; the construct armor counts as a breastplate for "weight" and "armor check penalty", which might include how quickly you can move in it, and since attacks "damage" the construct armor first, status effects might transfer to the construct as well, leaving you immune to the various things constructs are immune to.

I think the enchantment is probably too cheap to provide Construct immunities, myself, and I don't think it does by the RAW, but some people will take the damage thing to imply status effects as well, I'm sure. Obviously if the construct has a status of some kind and you don it during that status's duration, it won't affect you, though.

Edit: I found an FAQ here (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9op2) that backs me up. It looks like even though the construct is worn, you're still two separate creatures, and the construct just doesn't have its own initiative and doesn't act independently. You use your own movement speed and attacks while acting, but you ~should be able to command the construct armor to act as a standard action because it's under your command and it will carry you using its speed/movement modes and use its attacks as you direct. I think you can even, technically, move yourself and the armor 30 feet and then order the construct to move its speed and attack something using its actions. It just can't do anything unless commanded.

[StSword]

You use your own movement speed and attacks while acting, but you ~should be able to command the construct armor to act as a standard action because it's under your command and it will carry you using its speed/movement modes and use its attacks as you direct.

No go, the construct is noted to be incapable of independent action while being worn, with the noted exception being that it can take itself off.

[Silvercrys]

No go, the construct is noted to be incapable of independent action while being worn, with the noted exception being that it can take itself off.The exact text is: "the construct performs no independent actions"; this could be interpreted as either "the construct can do nothing, it has no independent actions" or as "the construct can not act without being commanded, it does not act independently."

The FAQ is clear as mud on this particular point, and in fact contradicts itself a bit when it says attacks have to break the construct's DR and destroy the construct before they can deal damage to you... but then it claims that any attack the construct is resistant or immune to bypasses the construct's HP.

So I'm not even sure Paizo knows how they meant the ability to work at this point.

[Jack_Simth]

Silvercrys: Not quite what I meant by status effects.

Suppose an Enlarged wizard was wearing a flesh golem, and got hit by a Cone of Cold. The golem slows, but that is a property of the golem, and only affects it.

[Noxangelo]

try give this a read, it might have some ideas for you

https://rukitanuki.wordpress.com/2015/02/10/assembling-iron-man-armor-in-the-d20-system-part-1/

[StSword]

The exact text is: "the construct performs no independent actions"; this could be interpreted as either "the construct can do nothing, it has no independent actions" or as "the construct can not act without being commanded, it does not act independently."

The FAQ is clear as mud on this particular point, and in fact contradicts itself a bit when it says attacks have to break the construct's DR and destroy the construct before they can deal damage to you... but then it claims that any attack the construct is resistant or immune to bypasses the construct's HP.

So I'm not even sure Paizo knows how they meant the ability to work at this point.

Well it could mean my interpretation, in which they meant independent as Merriam Webster defined it "B) not requiring or relying on something else."

Or it could mean your interpretation, in which case it's meaningless drivel because controlled constructs only obey orders to begin with, and requires the belief that Paizo intended for people wearing construct armor to enjoy two full round actions all day every day. Two full attacks. Charging than full attack. Spellcasting while full attacking. All for 35 thousand gold.

Controlled constructs can be given orders for advance, after all. Like "attack anyone who attacks me while wearing you."

So when there are two options, and only one of them makes sense, I'd suggest going with the option that makes sense.

[Railak]

I've got a question, what about the construct's special abilities? Like the iron golems breath weapon, would you be able to use that attack while wearing it?

[Silvercrys]

Well it could mean my interpretation, in which they meant independent as Merriam Webster defined it "B) not requiring or relying on something else."

Or it could mean your interpretation, in which case it's meaningless drivel because controlled constructs only obey orders to begin with, and requires the belief that Paizo intended for people wearing construct armor to enjoy two full round actions all day every day. Two full attacks. Charging than full attack. Spellcasting while full attacking. All for 35 thousand gold.

Controlled constructs can be given orders for advance, after all. Like "attack anyone who attacks me while wearing you."

So when there are two options, and only one of them makes sense, I'd suggest going with the option that makes sense.That isn't at all what I think it says.

I think it might say it doesn't act without being commanded to take specific actions.

You can't command it to attack anyone who attacks you while you're wearing it because that would require it to act independently.

But you might be able to command it to take specific actions each turn by spending your standard action.

I don't think the feat is clear.