Factotum Ur Priest Mystic Theurge dip question

[Elves]

Take factotum 8/high fort class 1/wiz1/urpriest2/mystic theurge 8. What high fort class would you dip?

(Yes, I know any number of better MT builds that get full double nines but I'd like to keep the factotum 8 on this one.)

[Silvercrys]

Hmm.

Barbarian or Warblade are probably the best dips, yep.

Wildrunner 1 qualifies you for the strictly superior Arcane Heirophant instead of Mystic Theruge -- it has 3/4 BAB and some (admittedly not amazing) class features.

Factotum 9 technically avoids a dip by qualifying for Ur-Priest directly, though that probably isn't what you meant, heh.

Yeah I got nothing. You need Factotum 8 and a dip or Factotum 9 to qualify for Ur-Priest unless there's a full arcane caster with a good Fort save to replace Wizard with. It ~might exist but if it does, I don't know about it.

Edit: Actually, wait, Dragonslayer gets you there! Just need to waste a feat on Dodge since Iron Will is also an Ur-Priest prereq.

Factotum 8/Wizard 2/Dragon Slayer 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theruge 7.

[Bphill561]

Shaper of Form requires 6 transmutation spells, some easy skills, and a feat tax of spell focus transmutation and great fortitude. If you already happen to be a transmutation specialist and can swing the feats, it will give you +2 fort, spell progression, and some interesting abilities.

Marshal might be another option not on your list if you put anything into charisma (like for divine metamagic). You could get the minor aura that adds charisma to you spell penetration rolls.

[Elves]

Wildrunner/Arcane Hierophant would be good, but the nature theme doesn't fit the character goal unfortunately.

As for omitting the Wizard level...if Mystic Theurge could advance Arcane Dilettante casting, applying it to Factotum might not be terrible -- fewer spells, but up to 7ths instead of 5ths.

The specific wording is:


When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class

Factotum certainly counts as an "arcane spellcasting class". It has a caster level. And it does gain spells each day.

The question is, is "spells per day" a specific thing that implies a "Spells Per Day" column in your class table? Or does satisfying the requirement linguistically still count? (And even if the former: text trumps table....)

So is Arcane Dilettante eligible for prestige advancement, or would that be a gross misreading?

[Silvercrys]

I just realized it looks like you're already using Precocious Apprentice to qualify for Mystic Theruge, heh. That gives you Factotum 8/Wizard 1/Dragonslayer 1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theruge 8 and caps your Ur-Priest casting so you basically just lose one caster level on Ur-Priest from your old build.

As far as using Mystic Theruge to progress Factotum casting, I believe you can do that but only if you qualify with Wizard 1/Precocious Apprentice anyway, same as the Warlock.

"By spending 1 inspiration point, you can mimic a spell as a spell-like ability."

It ought to qualify for the same prestige classes Warlock does in Complete Arcane, though, like Green Star Adept and Acolyte of the Skin. Green Star Adept might not be a bad Factotum prestige class, actually.... *wanders off to tinker with a new character*

[Elves]

You're right, that's another hole in the build isn't it. I guess you have to either lose a bunch of skill points by taking wizard at 1st, or take Magical Training in addition to Precocious.


I skimmed Troacctid's spreadsheet and found a few decent +1 CL possibilities instead of Dragonslayer: Mindbender, Escalation Mage, Osteomancer, Blood Magus, Runesmith. +0 CL possibilities include Havoc Mage and Witch Hunter.

[Rebel7284]

Illumian Factotum 8/Savage Bard 1/Ur Priest 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 9

This requires a bit of cheese, but gets Cunning Surge and double 9s.

Requires
1. Precocious Apprentice
2. That Illumian sigil that allows you to heighten two spells (Chose your Precocious Apprentice spell to cast 3rd level spells)
3. Alternate Spell Source/Southern Magician don't remember which one works better.
4. Iron will can be obtained from a magical location of course.

Ultimately it's weaker than many other full casters because of all the catching up it needs to do, but it's certainly amazing if it survives to 20.

[Elves]

I don't think it's cheese unless it stinks (ie nonstandard rules interpretations).

SM has the suspect line "The actual source of the spell's power doesn't change", so slightly cheesy when you need to pull it out.

ASS requires both arcane and divine casting already but that build could take it fine at level 12.

Why savage instead of normal bard?

[Silvercrys]

Why savage instead of normal bard?Savage Bard has the good Fort/Will saves for Ur-Priest, regular Bard has good Ref/Will, I believe.

[Elves]

I'm stupid, you can just take Alternative Source Spell as soon you take ur-priest 2. Factotum certainly qualifies for that feat. No need for Precocious. This actually fits better with the fac8/wiz1/x1/ur2/theurge8 version, taking ASS at 12th.

[Silvercrys]

Well, there isn't even any need for Wizard 1 then, is there? You can do Factotum 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theruge 9 if Alternative Source Spell is your entry to MT. Or Factotum 8/Dragon Slayer 1, whichever.

I guess you need a feat between Ur-Priest 2 and MT though. Huh.

[Elves]

I guess you just chaos shuffle to solve that problem. So yes, the extra level's unnecessary on those terms. But we're back where we started since that extra level is still necessary for fortitude bonus. I see the appeal of savage bard.

Using ur-priest to advance factotum instead of wizard would be dumb because ASS lets you use DMM on arcane slots, which doesn't work with SLAs.


Are there any PF/third party arcane fullcaster base classes with good fort?

[Silvercrys]

I guess you just chaos shuffle to solve that problem. So yes, the extra level's unnecessary.

Using ur-priest to advance factotum instead of wizard would be dumb because ASS lets you use DMM on arcane slots, which doesn't work with SLAs.Well, that mainly depends on whether you'd rather be able to persist 5th level Wizard spells or cast 7th level ones as SLAs, I suppose. Was mainly spitballing since you'd asked about advancing Factotum and ASS allows you to qualify for MT without having any levels in another Arcane class.

Yeah, feat shuffle works if you don't mind the cheese and can pay a spellcaster to do it for you. I think Feat Retraining from the PHB II might work as well (not actually looking at the rules for that at the moment so don't take my word for it).

But yeah, you're basically good to go if you use ASS and Factotum 8/Wizard 1/Good Fort 1/Ur-Priest 2/MT 8. Still get 9s/5s at level 20 even if you dip Barbarian there instead of Mindbender or whatever.

[Elves]

Yes, only open question is about possible PF/3rd party base classes, which I might be open to.

Or other early qualification shenanigans akin to Tainted Spellcaster>level drain.

The build Rebel mentioned is beautiful, this is just for a specific character whom bard and illumian don't fit.

[Silvercrys]

Magus does, but it's basically like taking Duskblade 1 / MT 9, you only get 4th level spells.

Ditto for the Occultist and Spiritualist, and they don't even have arcane spells, either.

Those are the only Pathfinder casters I know of with good Fort. If there's anything 3rd party I wouldn't know about it though, I stay pretty far away from 3rd party stuff for the most part unless... well, there are a handful of authors I follow but mostly I only use DSP stuff, heh.