Mundane Whale Hunting?

[Blackhawk748]

I've been playing a lot of Atlas recently and I do a fair bit of Sperm Whaling in there. This got me to thinking of how this would work in DnD, particularly without magic.

A Sperm Whale has 141hp and an AC of 16. Now the AC isn't a huge issue until you realize that it's some low level schmuck throwing a harpoon and that means they have like a +3 to hit. Then add in the fact that one harpoon is gonna do like 1d10+1 and then it's slow effect and I'm struggling to figure out how DnD people hunt whales?

The conclusion I came to was Ballistas because I wouldn't want to be near the thing with a 4d6+12 Bite attack. The issue with that is that it's gonna take a lot of bolts to kill it and then the Ballistas will cut into your weight.

So, ideas?

[Mike Miller]

With fish (specifically fish, but the aquatic type generally works here too if they have no land or air capacities), I feel as though their AC should be used for underwater combat. If the whale is at the surface, it has far fewer movement options than when it is deep underwater. It is also focused on breathing at the surface. I think applying penalties to its AC is reasonable here.

[Saintheart]

Well, there's the Harpoon out of Stormwrack. When it hits and lodges in, the target can't charge or run, and the target does as much damage taking it out as it did as the weapon went in (assuming it can take it out - whales don't have free hands). Maybe they all take the Fleshgrinding quality, the harpoon gets thrown, lodges, and then the whalers make full withdrawal actions and wait for it to kill the whale?

[Elves]

In most land animals there are certain valves or flood gates in many of their veins, whereby when wounded, the blood is in some degree at least instantly shut off in certain directions. Not so with the whale; one of whose peculiarities is, to have an entire non-valvular structure of the blood-vessels, so that when pierced even by so small a point as a harpoon, a deadly drain is at once begun upon his whole arterial system; and when this is heightened by the extraordinary pressure of water at a great distance below the surface, his life may be said to pour from him in incessant streams. Yet so vast is the quantity of blood in him, and so distant and numerous its interior fountains, that he will keep thus bleeding and bleeding for a considerable period; even as in a drought a river will flow, whose source is in the well springs of far off and undiscernible hills.

In other words, if you wanted to do a low-magic whaling adventure you would probably make special rules about whales taking bleed damage when hurt, and give them DR/piercing due to blubber. Little as-needed modifications like this are better than assuming the general system is accurate to any resolution.

[EisenKreutzer]

Contrary to popular belief, whaling harpoons were not used to kill whales. The role of the harpoon was to hold the whale close to the surface. The harpoon was attached to the light boats by rope, making it impossible for the whale to dive deep to avoid the whalers.
Once the whale surfaced to breathe, the whalers used lances to kill the exhausted animal.

[Telok]

Yeah, you're really looking at cutting off the whale's mobility and running it to exhaustion before stabbing it to death with long pokey things.

Interesting thought: weight encumbers land creatures due to gravity. Flip it around. You could decide that bouyant objects could encumber swimming creatures when they try to take the bouyant item underwater. Would the whaling boats be enough to encumber a whale?

[Blackhawk748]

With fish (specifically fish, but the aquatic type generally works here too if they have no land or air capacities), I feel as though their AC should be used for underwater combat. If the whale is at the surface, it has far fewer movement options than when it is deep underwater. It is also focused on breathing at the surface. I think applying penalties to its AC is reasonable here.

I would assume it would make it flat footed, yes.


Well, there's the Harpoon out of Stormwrack. When it hits and lodges in, the target can't charge or run, and the target does as much damage taking it out as it did as the weapon went in (assuming it can take it out - whales don't have free hands). Maybe they all take the Fleshgrinding quality, the harpoon gets thrown, lodges, and then the whalers make full withdrawal actions and wait for it to kill the whale?

Fleshgrinding is expensive, so I don't see that helping


In other words, if you wanted to do a low-magic whaling adventure you would probably make special rules about whales taking bleed damage when hurt, and give them DR/piercing due to blubber. Little as-needed modifications like this are better than assuming the general system is accurate to any resolution.

Huh, so thats how that works. Interesting. Thats also a thought.


Contrary to popular belief, whaling harpoons were not used to kill whales. The role of the harpoon was to hold the whale close to the surface. The harpoon was attached to the light boats by rope, making it impossible for the whale to dive deep to avoid the whalers.
Once the whale surfaced to breathe, the whalers used lances to kill the exhausted animal.

Well I knew there was more to it, but even then, I wouldn't want to get close to a Sperm Whale.

[EisenKreutzer]

Well I knew there was more to it, but even then, I wouldn't want to get close to a Sperm Whale.

No, you most definitely wouldn’t. Whaling was extremely dangerous back then.
In fact, the book Moby **** (which is a decent source of info on old school whaling) was inspired by a real life event:
A sperm whale bull (or whatever a male sperm whale is called) started attacking and sinking whaling vessels. Whalers had driven the sperm whale population into a small area of ocean where the whales were attempting to breed while hiding from whaling ships.
Apparently one bull had had enough, lost its mind and started ramming whaling ships. It sunk a few ships before it was brought down.

[Thurbane]

Maybe Moby was a Monster of Legend?

[Divine Susuryu]

A sperm whale bull (or whatever a male sperm whale is called) started attacking and sinking whaling vessels. Whalers had driven the sperm whale population into a small area of ocean where the whales were attempting to breed while hiding from whaling ships.
Apparently one bull had had enough, lost its mind and started ramming whaling ships. It sunk a few ships before it was brought down.

Sperm whales are nothing to mess with - it's an apex predator, after all. If it weren't for the spermaceti, I suspect that whalers would have stuck to smaller species.


Moby ****

For some reason, this is astonishingly funny to me.

[EisenKreutzer]

For some reason, this is astonishingly funny to me.

I considered editing it to say Moby Dong.

[Afghanistan]

Well, there's the Harpoon out of Stormwrack. When it hits and lodges in, the target can't charge or run, and the target does as much damage taking it out as it did as the weapon went in (assuming it can take it out - whales don't have free hands). Maybe they all take the Fleshgrinding quality, the harpoon gets thrown, lodges, and then the whalers make full withdrawal actions and wait for it to kill the whale?

This makes me curious, how optimized can we make the Harpoon, what is the biggest thing we can kill with it, and more importantly imo, how cheap can we make it and mass produce it while still maintaining efficiency? :smallamused:

[ExLibrisMortis]

With the harpoon, you limit the distance the whale can move to 20', and it must stay within 30' of the rope's anchoring point. Apparently sperm whales have 15' reach, so even locked down like that, you're going to need something better than a lance to hit them safely, under 3.5 mechanics. A pike has 15' reach, which allows one to avoid AoOs when moving into range, but is not sufficient to avoid all attacks by itself. It seems like Spring Attack would solve the problem, except that it requires +4 base attack, which is a bit high for a common sailor. Lunging Strike is likewise locked behind a base attack requirement. Willing Deformity and Abberation Blood both lead to reach-increasing feats, but the fluff would be rather uncongenital to the whaling community. It seems that whaling is indeed a dangerous profession at levels 1-3. In that range, if you want to be safe, I think you're better off attacking with ranged weapons, and definitely put a net in there, because it'll halve the whale's speed again.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Telok
Would the whaling boats be enough to encumber a whale?

Check out the Nantucket sleighride (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantucket_sleighride).


Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer
Whalers had driven the sperm whale population into a small area of ocean where the whales were attempting to breed while hiding from whaling ships.

This was depicted in the recent movie Heart of the Sea, based on the book of the same name.

[EisenKreutzer]

This was depicted in the recent movie Heart of the Sea, based on the book of the same name.

Yep, I saw that a few years ago. Made me interested enough in the event to do some research about it.

[Saintheart]

This makes me curious, how optimized can we make the Harpoon, what is the biggest thing we can kill with it, and more importantly imo, how cheap can we make it and mass produce it while still maintaining efficiency? :smallamused:

There's a thread about that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?135695-3-5-Harpoon-master).

Harpoon + Sovereign Glue + Immovable Rod is probably the most hilarious combination suggested.

[Vizzerdrix]

There's a thread about that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?135695-3-5-Harpoon-master).

Harpoon + Sovereign Glue + Immovable Rod is probably the most hilarious combination suggested.

The frog guys can do something similar with spit and a shield.

I like the idea of making the head out of that cold material that auto damages each round of contact.

[Blackhawk748]

With the harpoon, you limit the distance the whale can move to 20', and it must stay within 30' of the rope's anchoring point. Apparently sperm whales have 15' reach, so even locked down like that, you're going to need something better than a lance to hit them safely, under 3.5 mechanics. A pike has 15' reach, which allows one to avoid AoOs when moving into range, but is not sufficient to avoid all attacks by itself. It seems like Spring Attack would solve the problem, except that it requires +4 base attack, which is a bit high for a common sailor. Lunging Strike is likewise locked behind a base attack requirement. Willing Deformity and Abberation Blood both lead to reach-increasing feats, but the fluff would be rather uncongenital to the whaling community. It seems that whaling is indeed a dangerous profession at levels 1-3. In that range, if you want to be safe, I think you're better off attacking with ranged weapons, and definitely put a net in there, because it'll halve the whale's speed again.

That's an isue I'm seing in DnD, you need to engage the whale in ranged combat even if you Harpoon it, cuz that bite is gonna wreck you.

I was curious and so i looked at what a Fiendish Whale would be like.

The answer is terrifying.

[DrMotives]

That's an isue I'm seing in DnD, you need to engage the whale in ranged combat even if you Harpoon it, cuz that bite is gonna wreck you.

I was curious and so i looked at what a Fiendish Whale would be like.

The answer is terrifying.

Fiendish whale is pretty much immune to harpooning unless they're magic. The DC for the save to avoid being pinned by a harpoon is damage + 10, so their DR 10/magic makes them immune to low-level whalers.