Level 6 Lore Bard! What to do?!

[oddassortments]

Hey all! Im currently playing in an open world home brewed campaign as a half elf lore bard. We're only at level 5 so I'm still trying to find my niche in the group and im looking forward to level 6. That being said the rest of the party is:

Party:
lvl5 Tabaxi assassin rogue
lvl5 Warforged(Skirmisher) open-hand Monk
lvl5 Gnome Divination Wizard
lvl5 Human Paladin of Vengence
lvl5 Teifling Great Old One Warlock
And myself,
lvl5 Half-elf Lore Bard

A little about my character:
-background is criminal spy, recently learned her mother was a spy her whole childhood and is following in the family footsteps
-trained as a dancer, so focuses on being acrobatic and agile with equal emphasis on style and gracefulness
-is prone to turning invisible as a reaction (roleplaying wise, not mechanic wise)
-grew up in a library, and entertained children with educational shows with her family, so very passionate
about books and knowledge and caring for the little bitty kiddies

Current spell list:

Cantrips
-Dancing lights - because who wouldn't want to watch a dance performance where someone made a LITERAL LIGHT HUMAN to dance with
-Vicious Mockery - because bard. and also she loves to berate people about their bad posture
- Mage Hand - utility. and also to use inside of a glove. #vogue

1st
-featherfall - Acrobatics sometimes fail.
-Dissonant whispers - Run away!!
-Bane - Bane because bane
-Faerie fire - Glitter bomb that gives you advantage
-healing word - because you cant fight if you're unconscious. Also, I believe I'm the only one who can get this.

2nd
-invisibility - Rp'ing plus stealth option
-heat metal - It's too darn hot, It's too darn hot

3rd
-major image - versatile, and I've got a good DM for illusion spells. But he's super clever. I major imaged a wall, the enemy immediately tried climbing it. the spells in that instance was thwarted, but if i make a floor and its 50 ft drop, it might work next time. :D

Magical Secrets
-Thorn whip
For a while I was considering eldritch blast at level 6 magical secrets. but with the recent addition of the warlock to the party, and myself being the type of person that wants my fellow players to have their particular spheres of awesome, i've decided not to pick that and let it be theirs. I'm now a fan of thorn whip, with a possible reflavoring as a length of fabric rather then a vine. 2d6 is better then vicious mockery but it also pulls the target up to 10.

but now the second magical secrets slot is a bit more hazy.

current ideas:

-Fly
Im imagining this would allow me an insane maneuverability to do all of my bardiness, plus very minor shenanigans combined with thorn whip and the 10 foot pull
-Healing spirit
Great bonus action healing, at the cost on concentration. looking at this for primarily combat use, without giving into the out of combat crazy potential. not too interested in breaking the game. just want some more solid healing being without a cleric.
-Revivify
Even though bards can get raise dead at level 10, I'm not sure if the party wants to wait until then to be protected for dying.
-Pass Without Trace
As a spy/bard im very invested in this option. but the monk, rogue, and wizard all have crazy high dex and stealth bonuses. and the paladin just kinda opts out of stealthy tactics as soon as they begin. so I'm not sure how good this would be with current party setup.
-Misty Step
Misty step seems really viable to me. bamf closer to ally to heal them. bamf away from an enemy to avoid being hit in my squishy face. 2 of us trapped in a corner by a bear? bamf 30 ft to the backside of the bear, thorn whip him to free my ally to move, then run the heck away with out any AoO. Im a fan.
-Counterspell
Oddly enough this one is at the bottom of the list. I know that bards essentially make really good counterspellers, but our wizard already has it and so far we've only run into 1 spell casting enemy. So i'd probably wait until lvl 10 to pick this one up. But its still on the list because, ya know, it's counterspell.

I could keep going, but thats just an idea of where my head is at whilst looking at the spell lists. Id absolutely love an input or advice any one has, as well as any synergistic ideas with spells later on. Im looking at control/utility tactics. Trying to find some spells I could utilize well with both greater invisibility and fly, which would be my go to concentration spells. or maybe adding another big concentration spell. still figuring it all out. But thanks you in advance for any assistance!

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Your party has a good little bit of damage, so you might not want to take my normal pick - fireball. If I had to take just one spell, it'd be counterspell, since the bard will be better at using it than the wizard will - Jack of All Trades applies. The stealth bonus from pass without trace is probably enough to get your paladin to take part in those tactics. I'm leery of fly because you're going to have a lot of concentration-restricted options, and you should be grabbing a flying mount with one of your level 10 magic secrets. Healing spirit I have the same reservations about, especially if you aren't going to use it out of combat.

If you want to take thorn whip for character reasons, I won't tell you not to, but the level 6 magical secrets are a huge power point for you and using one of them on an OK-at-best spell isn't necessarily the best thing to do. My picks would be counterspell and pass without trace for this character.

[oddassortments]

Thank you for the response! Yeah, the other characters have crazy stats so damage output is pretty high. and the point you raised about thorn whip is so valid it hurts, but this is one of the situations where im torn between optimization and rping.

The only thing I'd add is that because we have the paladin in the party i'm hesitant to steal his find greater stead thunder far earlier then he can. Both the rogue and monk have crazy movement and usually get to the enemy before I can get there to support, and also, the wizard has a fear of heights and wont take fly... so im torn. But you make an excellent point about Pass without trace's boost being enough to get the paladin to tip toe.

[Bobthewizard]

I also like shield with this level 6 pick. It's absence is my biggest hurdle to playing a bard.

Or at some point a 1 level dip is sorcerer could get you both shield and absorb elements along with a couple damage cantrips, at the cost of slowing down your bard spell selections.

[Nidgit]

Your party seems pretty light on both frontliners and healing, so it might be good to invest in supporting those. As such, Conjure Animals and Healing Spirit are both excellent spells that I would consider.

If you're pretty invested in Thorn Whip, Spirit Guardians also makes for a great combo to really bring on the pain. Shield is also a good choice if you find yourself frequently in the line of fire.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Thank you for the response! Yeah, the other characters have crazy stats so damage output is pretty high. and the point you raised about thorn whip is so valid it hurts, but this is one of the situations where im torn between optimization and rping.

The only thing I'd add is that because we have the paladin in the party i'm hesitant to steal his find greater stead thunder far earlier then he can. Both the rogue and monk have crazy movement and usually get to the enemy before I can get there to support, and also, the wizard has a fear of heights and wont take fly... so im torn. But you make an excellent point about Pass without trace's boost being enough to get the paladin to tip toe.

I actually agree with you about find greater steed. And since you don't want to use the insane power of healing spirit, I also didn't recommend conjure animals. Ranger and druid spells might be the way to go since you haven't got one of those.

My experience with pass without trace is limited, but the game I'm DMing now has an earth genasi. I've run the first two encounters of Lost Mines of Phandelver into the beginning of Out of the Abyss with this party, and the genasi's pass without trace ability has been extremely powerful. The party is a monk, cleric, warlock and paladin, no one has stealth proficiency, and they've been leaning heavily on stealth-based tactics just because that spell makes them feel they can get away with it. And for the most part, they have, even when being at a severe vision disadvantage. I suppose it depends on the kind of spy you are. George Smiley probably doesn't need pass without trace (but he's probably not a bard), but Harriet Tubman definitely does.

I wonder, can you achieve the RP goal of thorn whip in a different way?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

For optimization:

Counterspell can be campaign changing.

My Bard once stopped our Wizard from Fireballing a whole bar full of commoners.

I also shut down some terrible teleport or plane shifting a bad guy was about to do.

Don't discount its defensive usefullness. While the Rogue is uncanny dodging, u are Counterspelling for the whole party.

Does it fit with your character giving a "no no" with the shake of a finger?

I dunno.

Revivify is useful too but can be controlled by a DM limiting access to diamonds.

[FabulousFizban]

you take counterspell, and conjure animals. You conjure swarms of ravens - 8 allies with 2d6 damage and resistance. Don't abuse conjure animals often, or you DM will get mad.

[Reynaerde]

If you're pretty invested in Thorn Whip, Spirit Guardians also makes for a great combo to really bring on the pain.Yeah, if Thorn Whip is something you are going for, get yourself something to draw your opponents into.

I'm not quite sure why, but Tiny Servant (maybe a book?) seems to really fit your character too. It's not as powerful as the other suggestions discussed here, though.

[Warlush]

First of all I want to say that I love your creative use of cantrips for rp. It's that kind of fun that made me fall in love with D&D.

My first instinct is to go with Aura of Vitality just because everyone taking damage will love you for it.
Then the obvious power gamer in me says Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians equals crazy damage, defense, and action economy abuse.

But I think the real dark horse is Vampiric Touch. You're so beautiful It's deadly. Whoaaa here she comes, watch out boy she'll chew you up. Then when you get Find Steed you can twin it on your mount, flank and murder. Maybe even fluff it as a kiss.

Cheers.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

It's been a bit since they've come up in my games, but I think healing spirit is basically an all-around upgrade to aura of vitality.

[Tallytrev813]

Im a big fan of Crusader's Mantle depending on party makeup.


You have 1 Rogue, 1 Paladin, and 1 MONK.

The Rogue wont get a LOT of mileage from it, but the Paladin will (And it's thematic).

The Monk...however...will destroy with this passive buff.

1d4 per attack, the monk will be taking 3-4 attacks per turn.

1d4 for the rogue, 2d4 for the paladin, and 3d4 for the Monk, thats adding 6d4 radiant damage per round as a passive buff allowing you to cast other spells or attacks.


*Another common pick would be Aura of Vitality if you want to heal, or Healing Spirit. Seems like the party needs healing maybe?

[sithlordnergal]

So, looking at your party, I would suggest forgoing Thorn Whip. Instead I would snag:

- Counterspell: because you are the best Counterspeller in the game. You get to add half your proficiency bonus to any counterspell check, or dispel magic check

- Crusader's Mantel: You'll be giving a wonderful buff for your allies, one that the frontliners will adore.

[pmay1]

Aid would be good if you think there isn’t enough healing in the party.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Find steed for mobility, protection and a nice double buffs.

Every lore bard I play have find steed, this spell is amazing.

[oddassortments]

I also like shield with this level 6 pick. It's absence is my biggest hurdle to playing a bard.

Or at some point a 1 level dip is sorcerer could get you both shield and absorb elements along with a couple damage cantrips, at the cost of slowing down your bard spell selections.

Shield was also on the list for a while, and definitely still there. May take a dip in divine Sorcerer later to pick that up. possibly after level 10.

[oddassortments]

I actually agree with you about find greater steed. And since you don't want to use the insane power of healing spirit, I also didn't recommend conjure animals. Ranger and druid spells might be the way to go since you haven't got one of those.

My experience with pass without trace is limited, but the game I'm DMing now has an earth genasi. I've run the first two encounters of Lost Mines of Phandelver into the beginning of Out of the Abyss with this party, and the genasi's pass without trace ability has been extremely powerful. The party is a monk, cleric, warlock and paladin, no one has stealth proficiency, and they've been leaning heavily on stealth-based tactics just because that spell makes them feel they can get away with it. And for the most part, they have, even when being at a severe vision disadvantage. I suppose it depends on the kind of spy you are. George Smiley probably doesn't need pass without trace (but he's probably not a bard), but Harriet Tubman definitely does.

I wonder, can you achieve the RP goal of thorn whip in a different way?

I just want to let you know you have absolutely sold me on Pass without trace. The more I think about it I do feel that it fits both thematically and for utility.

On a side note, do you think it would increase the potency of thorn whip if I spoke to the DM and he agreed that with thorn whip I could also make a contested check to pull and creature prone? Just to beef it up as a trade for taking it as a cantrip magical secret? Just a thought I had.

[oddassortments]

Yeah, if Thorn Whip is something you are going for, get yourself something to draw your opponents into.

I'm not quite sure why, but Tiny Servant (maybe a book?) seems to really fit your character too. It's not as powerful as the other suggestions discussed here, though.

TIny Servant is 5000% on my list for lvl 10. My character makes wigs. so i kinda want a wig servant I wear on my head.

[oddassortments]

First of all I want to say that I love your creative use of cantrips for rp. It's that kind of fun that made me fall in love with D&D.

My first instinct is to go with Aura of Vitality just because everyone taking damage will love you for it.
Then the obvious power gamer in me says Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians equals crazy damage, defense, and action economy abuse.

But I think the real dark horse is Vampiric Touch. You're so beautiful It's deadly. Whoaaa here she comes, watch out boy she'll chew you up. Then when you get Find Steed you can twin it on your mount, flank and murder. Maybe even fluff it as a kiss.

Cheers.

Thank you! I do have a lot of fun with cantrips. This character especially uses them during every performance she makes.

Spiritual weapon was considered. But it's bonus action damage, and I know that bards already have inspirations, healing words. But the fact that its not concentration is still really excellent. I'm not sure if it scales as nicely as I'd like though. Spirit guardians on the other hand is a great suggestion, but I dont think id ever really want to be within 15 ft of enemies.


And I'm in love with the femme fatale idea, and the song choice put it in great context. This character is more of an artsy, young, driven kindergarten teacher. She may definitely get along with femme fatales, and is one in her own right, I'm not sure if she'd want to drain an enemies life force with her steed. But the thought of it makes me smile.

[oddassortments]

So, looking at your party, I would suggest forgoing Thorn Whip. Instead I would snag:

- Counterspell: because you are the best Counterspeller in the game. You get to add half your proficiency bonus to any counterspell check, or dispel magic check

- Crusader's Mantel: You'll be giving a wonderful buff for your allies, one that the frontliners will adore.

I hadn't considered crusader's mantel before now, but I think it's a great idea. This character is currently making a battle wig, so I can definitely see it glowing brightly and making everybody just do better.

And given the pace of the campaign, and the wizard already having counterspell, I'm worried I'm gonna take it and not use it as much as pass without trace or healing spirit. But I'm still torn about it.

[Guy Lombard-O]

I just want to let you know you have absolutely sold me on Pass without trace. The more I think about it I do feel that it fits both thematically and for utility.

On a side note, do you think it would increase the potency of thorn whip if I spoke to the DM and he agreed that with thorn whip I could also make a contested check to pull and creature prone? Just to beef it up as a trade for taking it as a cantrip magical secret? Just a thought I had.

Since you're OK with Pass Without Trace as an option, and since you don't seem to want to step on anyone else's toes in choosing spells, I'd have to ask: did/will the wizard take Fly? It's a great spell (upcasts nicely, although your party is too big to Fly everyone), and gives you another great utility/accessibility option. But if the wizard already has it or plans to get it, there might be better choices for your party.

It seems like maybe your best bet might be Pass Without Trace and Conjure Animals. Many of the other spells listed here are also fantastic: counterspell, fly, crusader's mantle, etc. (personally, I did take Fly with a magical secret). But all of those spells are available to the other members of your party. These two aren't.

EDIT: Spiritual Guardians is another great choice unavailable to anyone else in your party. But it involves getting close to opponents (which is another reason why I definitely wouldn't pick Thorn Whip).

RE-EDIT: Actually, maybe if you and the wizard both take Fly, you'd be able to Fly all 6 of you at 9th level. So maybe more synergy than stepping on toes?

[oddassortments]

Aid would be good if you think there isn’t enough healing in the party.

Ya know, given my parties moderately low HP, Aid has come up multiple times. I'm clearly not a cleric, but I can basically pre-heal everybody by 5+ HP before the battle, the only draw would be 2 spell slots used before the battle for all 6 of us. But then again, healing word for all 6 of us would be 6 slots total. So it works in my favor.

[oddassortments]

Since you're OK with Pass Without Trace as an option, and since you don't seem to want to step on anyone else's toes in choosing spells, I'd have to ask: did/will the wizard take Fly? It's a great spell (upcasts nicely, although your party is too big to Fly everyone), and gives you another great utility/accessibility option. But if the wizard already has it or plans to get it, there might be better choices for your party.

It seems like maybe your best bet might be Pass Without Trace and Conjure Animals. Many of the other spells listed here are also fantastic: counterspell, fly, crusader's mantle, etc. (personally, I did take Fly with a magical secret). But all of those spells are available to the other members of your party. These two aren't.

EDIT: Spiritual Guardians is another great choice unavailable to anyone else in your party. But it involves getting close to opponents (which is another reason why I definitely wouldn't pick Thorn Whip).

RE-EDIT: Actually, maybe if you and the wizard both take Fly, you'd be able to Fly all 6 of you at 9th level. So maybe more synergy than stepping on toes?

There's so much about this i agree with. The fly synergy is absolutely a thing to consider.

With fly, thorn whip becomes a bit more viable, but even then really only when im flying during battle.

Conjure Animals is now Solidly on the List!

EDIT: Conjure Animals with this character is basically going to be Cinderella with a flute, so its an amazing fit.

[Keravath]

Ya know, given my parties moderately low HP, Aid has come up multiple times. I'm clearly not a cleric, but I can basically pre-heal everybody by 5+ HP before the battle, the only draw would be 2 spell slots used before the battle for all 6 of us. But then again, healing word for all 6 of us would be 6 slots total. So it works in my favor.

You might want to look into the Inspiring Leader feat at some point if you want temp hit points for everyone as opposed to the Aid spell.

Magical secrets are an important aspect of all bards and especially lore bards. My bard picked up Fireball and Counterspell. Fireball just because it can be important to apply damage at the right time if the opponents are big enough and it never really hurts to have more than one character capable of casting it. Counterspell is also particularly useful on bards due to Jack of All Trades adding 1/2 of your proficiency to all checks for it to succeed.

As other folks have mentioned, thorn whip wouldn't be a great choice if only because if you are within 30' of your opponents you may be too close given the relatively low AC and hit points. You also probably don't want to be pulling enemies closer to you as a general strategy. The cases where folks use thorn whip with spirt guardians are usually clerics with better armor and a shield.

I'd also suggest picking up hypnotic pattern. It is a bard spell that can be extremely effective and even encounter changing under the right circumstances.

As for other secrets, shield is a good spell to have available. However, you could pick it up with a level in sorcerer or alternatively a level in hexblade warlock (if that could fit your spy backstory ... to be honest, two levels of hexblade warlock would provide you with armor, shield and weapon proficiencies, shield and hex spells, 2 short rest 1st level spell slots and 2 invocations including the Mask of Many Faces invocation which allows you to cast Disguise Self at will, which is probably the best possible ability for any kind of spy ... obtained with two levels of any sort of warlock ... you could also pick up the invocation that allows you to cast Silent Image at will ... both of which could be very thematic for your character).