PF1, Gestalt, Mythic, and High Level Builds.

[Ualaa]

The game is Pathfinder (1st edition), and the players will be Gestalt (using Fractional BAB, Fractional Saves, and Best Progression for abilities like Sneak Attack, a Prestige Class on only one side of the build, no classes that advance two types of casting at once), probably a 32 point-buy, and base races (human, elf, halfling) or featured races (aasimar, half-giant, tiefling).

Alignment is open, but they'll need to cooperate; I'm not sure if they'll be mostly good or mostly evil.

Characters will eventually become mythic, via Ascension (the least mythic/lowest tier character will advance by one tier [random which character, if they're equally non-mythic/low tier], upon killing something that's mythic and higher tier then they are).

For sources, we'll be using Paizo/Pathfinder content, plus:
- (Dreamscarred Press) Path of War, Path of War: Expanded, Ultimate Psionics.
- (Drop Dead Studio) Champion of the Spheres, Spheres of Might, (Ultimate) Spheres of Power.
- (Legendary Games) Mythic Hero's Handbook.

The casting classes will have to take the sphere version if it exists... so a Cleric will be (Sphere)Cleric, but they can use the Spheres of Power classes too.

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I'm not necessarily looking for fleshed out builds, more so ideas.
I'll be the DM of the game, so have some flexibility in builds, but would like to stick towards (mostly) the same build rules as the players.

In the middle stage of the campaign, probably 24th to 32nd level, the gods will be forced upon the mortal realm, similar to 'The Time of Troubles' from the Forgotten Realms.
I'd imagine some will perish, and previous non-deities will ascend, ideally all of the characters will be part of that latter group.

I envision the gods to range from 40th (a lesser power) to 50th (a greater power); given that classes don't go beyond 20th, that means multiple classes.

The gods can be monsters, but that will eat as many levels (on both sides of the Gestalt) as the CR rating of the mob.
Still, the point-buy on top of the racial modifiers (even numbers, minus 10 -and- odd numbers, minus 11), plus their racial abilities; a Succubus (CR 7) with +16 Cha, Teleport at-will, etc, would be 33 Levels || 33 Levels (as a Lesser Power, base 40 levels).

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What would you make, if your build was?
01-20 Class A || Class B
21-40 Class C || Class D
And potentially:
41-50 Class E || Class F

Dips are fine, but ideally not a lot of them, as I'd like to make quite a few of the "gods".

[AvatarVecna]

I'm not even really sure what you're looking for here. Are you looking for us to put forth character concepts for you to build for us? Are you looking for us to build characters? If so, what level are we starting out at? Actually, rather than answer that directly, look up the "Big 16 Questions" and fill them out, so we can get going on this.

[Coventry]

Edit: Whoops! I saw this thread over in the RPG forum, so replied assuming it was a request for theory. I am not interested in joining a game using this character. The thread has since been moved.

Here's my original response:

Let's see ... starting with a Nymph (CR 7) (STR +0, DEX +10, CON +8, INT +6, WIS: +6, CHA +14)

Those are decent racial bonuses for Dex-based melee, Cha- or Wis-based spellcasting). As a special treat, she gets a deflection bonus to AC and a racial bonus to all saves based on her Charisma, freeing up the ring slot typically spent on protection.

That ties up levels 1-7 on both sides. It seems natural (pun intended) to fill in the other 13 levels of druid spellcasting on one side. Getting to a BAB of +16 or higher by level 20 would ensure she has full iterative attacks if she wants, so that suggests a martial class on the other side of those 13 levels.

Maybe swashbuckler to take advantage of that racial DEX bonus? Or perhaps an Avenger Vigilante for 13 levels? Sadly, neither really take advantage of her CHA bonus. So, I would instead put those 13 levels in Oracle of Battle ... and then extend the class to the full 20 by using up 7 levels in the next set.

So that is two full tier 1 caster classes and maximum BAB already taken care of.

With a CHA bonus that high, it makes sense to look at the other classes that benefit from a high score: Sorcerer, Summoner, Bard and Skald. All four of them have strengths: raw firepower, minions, skills and buffs, skills and other buffs. Being a sorcerer on top of a druid and an oracle seems like overkill to me, so I would grab Summoner (synthesist) for 13 levels to fill in one side ...

... and then I would head off into the fun that is the Medium class for the other 20 levels. That classes ability to switch between configurations (or, we need a lawyer for the group? Fine, I'll pop over to the hall of justice early tomorrow morning to have a séance and channel a trickster. We'll be fine.)

To summarize: Nymph 7 / Druid 13 / Medium (20) // Oracle (Battle Mystery) (20) // Summoner (Synthesist) (13).

[Khosan]

I do have a 1-20 gestalt build I tinkered with a while back. I don't know what I'd do taking it all the way to 50, but at 16 it was a hell of a blender.

Aegis 16 / Dervish Defender Warder 4 // Empiricist Investigator 20

The basic idea was Int-synergy and (ab)using the Extra Arms customizations from Aegis to do some silly stuff with maneuvers, Primal Fury/Thrashing Dragon in particular (though special mention to Riven Hourglass, which wasn't out at the time, but will make this even scarier). High dex, high int, pick up Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility and Student of the Astral Suit, after that you're free to choose. Put a weapon in each hand, study a target, use Raging Hunter Pounce, Primal Frenzy or Dragon Assault on a target, deal hundreds of damage spread over about a dozen attacks. Sleeping Goddess Maneuvers from Aegis helped to offset some of the cost of wielding 4 weapons, and you can pick up some other nice utility abilities from Veiled Moon and/or Golden Lion. It even gets fairly high AC from Dervish Defender granting Int to AC.

The build itself is a couple years old and I wasn't familiar with SoP when I first made it, but it does get a lot sillier when you invest in SoP. Add in the Alteration sphere and now you can have even more arms and even make those extra arms permanent at higher levels. Even at absurdly high levels I'm not sure I could reasonably expect anyone to invest in enough weaponry to occupy all those hands (you could have up to 18 hands at level 20 alone - 2 base, +2 from Aegis, 15 CL +5 from an Implement of Power for +2 arms per 5 CL or +8 total, +2 from Greater Transformation, +4 from Extreme Transformation x2), so I think the better option would be to just sacrifice about half the traits giving you extra arms for giving those arms claws instead. That way you end up with 5 pairs of arms, each with claws that can all benefit from a single Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Going higher than up to 40 I'd probably lean towards Mageknight 20 // Prodigy or Incanter 20. Prodigy if you want to push more skill-monkey shenanigans, Incanter if you just want a higher CL and more self buffs (i.e. more arms). Mageknight can almost entirely remove the need for Dex and replace it with Int, beef up the damage even more, etc.

Up to 50...Not sure. Probably Warder +10 just because more maneuvers are nice. Maybe 10 in Prodigy or Incanter, whatever you didn't take before on the other side.

Now that I've gone through the absurd thought experiment of making it as strong as possible, here's why you probably shouldn't do this as explained: It's stupid unfair. If built from a player standpoint of maximizing damage, it does so much damage that nothing can really stand up to it for more than a single round. You'd be looking at 18+ claw attacks, each dealing 2d8+4d6+~80 (25 from Finesse Fighting x2, +10 from Studied Target, +5 enhancement bonus, +21 x2 from Energy Weapon x2 from the Enhancement Sphere at CL 42, probably a fair number of others I'm not even going to look into right now) and Riven Hourglass's 9th level counter would let it get a full round action against anyone who thinks about targeting it.

If anything so much as breathes aggressively within its movement radius, it is almost 100% dead. Maybe that's appropriate for a god. It could essentially walk through an army and leave nothing but a mountain of gore - not bodies, gore - in its wake. I'm not sure it's appropriate for a combat encounter though.

EDIT: Oh, apparently I had the same misconception as the person above me. So, uh, if someone wants to use this and make the DM's life hell, that's on your conscience.

[Ualaa]

Thanks for moving this back to the desired forum.

I'm the Original Poster, and am not recruiting players.
This was in the correct forum initially.

I'm basically looking for build suggestions for the Gods.
Gestalt, around level 40 or 50, as per the first post.

What would you build... if you were playing a high mythic, high level character?


Thanks for the awesome suggestions, Endless Kng.

Suggested Builds:
Nymph 07 / Druid 13 / Medium 20
Nymph 07 / Synthesist 13 / (Battle) Oracle 20

Aegis 16 / (Dervish)Warder 4 / Mageknight 20
(Empiricist)Investigator 20 / Incanter 20

Incanter 20 / Troubador 20
Fey Adept 20 / Soulweaver 20

(Hidden Blade/Waylayer) Rogue 20 / (Vigilante, Bushi) Stalker 20 / Umbral Blade 10
(Meditant/Path Master) Psychic Warrior 20 / (Two Weapon Warrior) Fighter 20 / Awakened Blade 10

[EndlessKng]

First, I'm really intrigued by your set up, and like how you are embracing the inevitable chaos of high level play in a way that tells a story with it. It's giving me a few ideas...

As for some builds, there are few ideas to use.

First Tier, up to 20th level

When thinking of Gestalt combos, a good rule is to have one side that is "active" (abilities that take actions to use) and one that is "passive." Another thing I've seen is to have one that is focused - does one thing really well, especially in combat - and one that is more general - that can offer support to the main focus, but also can provide things to do when that focus doesn't apply, and often adds some skill-monkey-esque traits. Both reasons explain fighter is a good half to a gestalt as I discuss later (since it's mostly feats as opposed to actual abilities), but other options also exist - Rogue is another good one to pair with other builds, since Sneak Attack is based on situation and not something that takes up an action itself, and also provides a ton of skills. Monk is also a strangely useful in general, since it has a ton of weird utility abilities that, on its own, don't work well together, but which provide a gestalt character a lot of latitude to work. A Monk-Rogue is especially intriguing, since it can create this idea of a culture of monastic tricksters, thieves, or assassins who train in strange martial abilities to aid them in their dark deeds (assassins, naturally, work the best, especially since Monk has been one of the classes that could get into Assassin without multiclassing or skill-training tricks since D&D 3.0). Monk-Cleric also works well mechanically and thematically, given the connections IRL between churches and monasteries (really, monk and anything that doesn't rely on Armor can be strangely functional, and adds a layer of special training and hints of organizations hidden in distant monasteries).

Standard Gestalt-Worthy builds work well here, so check the Gestalt section in UA or the SRD page for the suggestions. As I metnioned, Fighter works well with just about anything that's vaguely into fighting due to the bonus feats (and can use archetypes to replace features that don't fit - replace armor training for monks with something else, for instance); rangers are especially good due to the feats and styles they can get, so you can either do more styles or really focus in on an existing style. The Gestalt section of UA has some ideas of the best fits in that.

Looking to fiction can lead to some ideas as well
* There's an existing build for FFXV's Noctis (https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/pathfinder-i-converted-noctis-from-final-fantasy-xv-using-spheres-of-power-might.832000/) using the full Spheres collection (including Champions of the Spheres); it's fairly easy to extend two of the classes, with one getting a few levels fewer to accommodate the the dip into a third class, and maybe taking two levels of PF's Horizon Walker to get even more teleportation (take Astral as your first terrain, and then master it at level 2 for some dimension door).
* Naruto style ninjas can be Ninja/Monks with a sphere archetype to give a bit of magical power (this should cover most of the pre-timeskip characters honestly).
* Get your Gandalf on and then some with a Fighter/Wizard build (or similar using your preferred full BAB/Full Caster combo).

[Tier 2 - 21st to 40th]

At this level, things get trickier. Adding in two new classes (or more with prestige) can begin to make things extra complicated - tracking two classes can be tricky, but now you're entering weird territory where you now have two more sets options, which don't have to fit in with the past options at all, or which can make them exceedingly powerful. By using Spherecasting, you're limiting the latter option a bit compared to flexible fullcasters; however, you still have to worry about abusive combinations by players and NPCs alike, but also decision paralysis for the super flexible characters. There's also a weird power here since you could start two new classes (and likely have to), but then you're starting at the beginning of those two builds and don't get full power until you go deeper; but once the new classes "come online," you can see characters shoot up in power.

Also, build order becomes more critical here. Since epic characters don't get their class BABs and saves (unless you've changed that), those first twenty will shape the character's basic abilities overall. A full BAB may be a necessity for combatants, especially if your players are optimizers, but that can limit your choice on the other side to make sure you cover the likely two bad saves from the first (another point for the monk - no bad saves in a gestalt build). Keep casting in mind too, though - even with sphere casting, for the 21-30 range you'll probably want to have full casting on the front 20 if you want the character to really emphasize casting as a concept. Given that, consider dividing this range into two (21-30 and 31-40) for design purposes.

If there is a class that you feel is central to your character's identity, put it in the front 20; don't "grow into it" at this point, make it the focus of the build.

Since this is where the weaker gods live, you'll want to make builds that focus in on their themes; by now, you also should know who the players are and can use those themes as foils or temptations for the PCs. With the sphere books, this becomes easier for casters than normal since you can just choose the Spheres that reflect their natures, or choose spheres to either compliment or contradict the PC choices.

When in doubt, look to fiction again:
* Bayonetta can be done using Witch and Gunslinger at 1-20 (with the Prehensile Hair hex), and adding in Monk with something else starting at 21. If you're at or above 30, I'd say Summoner, but earlier it may not fit as well.
* Link has had a ton of different incarnations that have made him controversial to stat out, but with Gestalt and Epic Levels, you can (try) to make everyone happy. Fighter and Bard can help the lower levels, getting great saves, some spell talents, bonus feats, and a slew of attacks; then starting at 21, start in on boosting the wide range of skills with some Rogue plus any other class you feel is appropriate (or prestige classes - Horizon Walker really can work well for him due to his terrain versatility).
* Not a specific character, but the "supernaturally skilled blind swordsman" trope is infamous, but can be fun to replicate. Sphere Oracle + Samurai or Swashbuckler (per the origin and nature of the character) at 1-20 with Blindness as your curse, and then Fighter + Monk (if unarmored) or Fighter + Armorist from Spheres of Power (or Armiger from Spheres of Might) can be an intriguing god of battle or warriors.

[Tier 3 - 41-60]

And here it all just goes crazy if it hasn't already. With two full gestalt sets down, you can really go crazy before. The initial lack of power to the new classes, while still present and possibly an issue, is less critical here because good lord you have power to spare from the lower levels. If your players have proven to be good optimizers and are tough to challenge, make your first set of 20 a "perfect combo" - a full BAB (Fighter if nothing else) on one side, and a good class that fits the theme and has any weak saves covered on the other. If they aren't optimizers, you may want to avoid this (don't cover all the saves, maybe get two mid-BABs, etc). Get casting out of one side on the second set, along with a class that fits into either a focused or generalist class based on what is missing from before already. For what you're starting with at tier three, get a skill monkey class for one track, so that you can mitigate whatever "starting power drop" issues do arise, and make the other something that supplements the lower level builds (if you haven't done fighter by now it's still a good pick; same with monk if you can meet the alignment reqs [if those exist]). Alternatively, build everything around one theme and make it as powerful as can be. Just be prepared for that to make players upset.

No good ideas come to mind from pop-culture at this level. That said...

[random build ideas]
* Harry Potter: settle the debate for if he's a wizard or sorcerer with both. Either side by side them, or at the higher tiers put sorcerer up first and then add wizard on one side, with something athletic (i.e. gladiator, aerial prestige class, etc) on the other for 1-20, and Investigator or Inquisitor for the other track on 20+ (for being an Auror). If he gets to the final tier, do whichever of the I classes you didn't pick on one side and Rogue on the other.
* Minionmancers: Persona users have Summoner in one track at the lower tiers, but the other track can be anything. Persona 5 definitely has some rogues, but in other games it depends on the role they play. Pokemon trainers can also be cool with this sort of build - do a Beastmaster Ranger/Summoner to potentially catch them all.


The Alchemist Code: TAC is a mobile game I play (and have running in auto as we speak to grind out some levels for stuff). The characters (visit the DB for profiles (http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/)) mostly have three-class sets, and those can inspire some gestalt choices, as can their art (many of the non-premium units have unique skins that don't quite reflect their actual job set exactly). There are also a few actual teams in here, though they can be a bit difficult to track down, but that really are cool inspirations (I am separating these to make them clearer):
* The Veda Templars: a superpowerful mercenary squad from a country that was lost/erased, the Templars have names based on German numbers. Each individual has a unique job as well as two other jobs, plus possible upgrades; the unique one is based on other jobs, but often has some really weird effects (and a lot of teleportation). The members and jobs thus far (and possible class combos) are (in no order except how I can find them on the DB:
** Sol (http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/thol): the leader and philosophical icon. He has visited a strange dimension and sacrificed his fear to it, and came away with the ability to use it for teleportation (of himself and others and the atmosphere around others), and draws upon a strange book that reveals the "truth" to him (which may actually be blank...). Dark Element. Unique Job: Truthspeaker (the aforementioned teleportation class - Sphere Wizard with Warp Sphere makes sense), Magic Swordsman (upgrade to Chimera version, darkness themed - a Magus would go well here), and Shadow Assassin (Upgrade to the Darkness version - it's a single knife striker with shadow magic - go Rogue and take the Assassin prestige class as well). [Around this point my browser closed on my and I almost had a heart attack when I couldn’t find my data until Google saved my bacon].
** Neun (http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/noin): A brutal brawler and drunken master. Dark Type; Jobs: Explosive Master (Barehanded brawler that involves leaping ahead, punching, and using explosives, either normal or breathing out burning booze - probably a Monk/Ex-Monk, with Drunken Master stuff, maybe a Fire Sphere mage at some point, and really high Jump and Acrobatics), Samurai (pretty self explanatory), Warrior (barbarian type)
** Füry (”http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/fury”): A former priestess from the games Japan analog (if this was L5R, she’d be an Isawa Fire Shugenja basically). After the country was invaded, she fled to the land where the Templars operated out of and joined out of despair and hatred for the invaders. Fire Type; Jobs: Cursed Cannon Master (It’s called a cannon master, but it’s mostly fire spells), Professor (basically an alchemist), and Shadow Assassin (again, sneak build, but maybe with Ninja instead given her origins).
** Sieba (”http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/zyva”): a two-weapon swordswoman who is all about being and collecting dazzling things. Light type; Jobs: Twin-Blade Master (Recently got an upgrade in Japan, but in both forms it’s about flashy moves to strike fast, charm, or delay enemies - go with your preferred two-weapon fighters and maybe Swashbuckler), Martial Artist (upgraded to Holy Boxer/Brawler: Senju in Japan - both are monk type martial artists, but Senju has three multi-hit attacks, so make a monk with Flurry of Blows), and Blademaster (also upgraded in Japan but not sure the details on it; basically uses a greatsword. Fighter here, which can also bolster your other sword tricks). May also consider a Paladin-type class or Armiger from Spheres of Might, as well as rogue (she may have been an archaeologist before the Templars)
** Vier (”http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/vier#profile”): An illusionist and soothsayer. She’s a “Dark Elf” (in TAC, they are elves who have murdered other elves and been cursed for it) and is very tricky/erratic, but never lies about her visions. Lighting Type; Jobs: Phantom Artist (presented as an illusionist, including a pipe to blow smoke out of), Chronomancer (could use Time Sphere or Divination magic at your discretion), Summoner (upgraded to the non-elemental focused Agartha Summoner, but same deal - Summoners are the goal here)
** Zehn (”http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/zenn”): Swordsman, Iai practitioner. Strikes trhough dimentional hops. Pretty much a samurai, but apprenticed with the man who made his weapon. Wants his dead family back. Jobs: Blade Swordmaster (teleportation, minor precogntion, and swordsmanship. Possibly a bit of illusion too, but focus on the other elements - go either Magus or Samurai); Blacksmith (use the blacksmith from Spheres of Might), and Blademaster (Great swords galore - Fighter here)
** Acht (”http://www.alchemistcodedb.com/unit/achad”): multiple weapon options. A cyborg with weapons more or less. WInd; Jobs: 7 Tactics Master (can attack with multiple weapons and from angles); Valkyrie (upgrade to Fallen): {Lance users, lots of damage and tanks) and Ninja (pretty much what it says on the tin).

That’s all for now, but there are a few more in Japan that I can write on if you want, plus other teams overall.

[AvatarVecna]

Venerable Half-Elf (Int +2)

Levels 1-20: Incanter (Int) | Troubadour
Levels 21-40: Fey Adept | Soul Weaver

Mythic: Archmage

Basic Chassis:
40d8 HD
BAB +30
Base Fort +18
Base Ref +18
Base Will +24
Acrobatics 40, Craft (Alchemy) 40, Fly 40, Swim 40, 938 unassigned ranks remaining
Caster Level 40, 172 spell points

Intelligence 56 (+23):
Base 18
Race +2
Age +3
Level +10
Tome +5
Mythic Stuff +12
Headband +6

Favored Class:
Fey Adept: Elf 18, Half-Elf 20, Skills 2
Incanter: Half-Elf 18, Human 18, Skills 4
Soul Weaver: Half-Elf 20, Human 20
Troubadour: Elf 20, Human 18, Skills 2

Important Feats:
HD 1: Fast Learner
HD 5: Zodiac Tattoos
HD 21: Multitalented Mastery


Important Mythic Abilities:
Enhanced Ability (Int)
Ultimate Versatility


Important Actor Trainings:
Expert Change
Improvisation
Quick Change

Suggested Personas:
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 9 magic talents of your choice
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 9 magic talents of your choice
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 9 magic talents of your choice
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 8 magic talents of your choice
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 8 magic talents of your choice
Cunning/Hero/Mentor: Resolute, 8 combat/Alchemy talents of your choice

Combat Talents:
Alchemy/Base (Salve)
Alchemy/Elixir Of Immortality
Athletics/Base (Fly)
Athletics/Expanded Training (Leap/Swim)
Athletics/Mighty Conditioning
Athletics/Mobility
Athletics/Reflexive Twist
Athletics/Swift Movement
Athletics/Eagle's Path
Athletics/Sparrow's Path
Equipment/Armored Defense
Equipment/Craftsman (Alchemy)
Equipment/Unarmored Training
Equipment/Magic Armor




The primary goal here is width and depth in our casting pool. By default, this god will have 80 magic talents. They also have 36 unassigned feats (31 regular, 5 mythic), which can be spent on many things to improve casting, including other magic talents, metamagic feats, and item creation feats. Additionally, you have a surprisingly good AC, Touch AC, CMD, and fly speed even without casting any spells, and you've got some interesting defensive options in the air. Admittedly the FCB stuff is very much a "squint at the rules for this to make sense" but given everything else in the build, and given that this is for a deity anyway, I feel it's not reaching too far. I wasn't sure if I should eyeball Deific Talents or not, but I figured Legendary ones were free rein at least.

The big versatility boost is in the personas, though: at all times, you have two primary personas and four secondary ones; you can change between primaries as a free action, or switch a primary and secondary as a full round action; 5 times a day, you can switch a primary and a secondary as a move action instead. Each persona has 9 or 10 quirks, most of which I suggest assigning to additional magic talents, but this isn't required; if you don't like your current quirk arrangement in a particular persona, you can take two days to utterly change how that particular persona works, or you can use the mythic ability Ultimate Versatility to change how that persona works for 10 minutes. One of the the suggested personas is focused on SoM Alchemy, which seems on-brand enough to me to include, and you keep quite a lot of benefits even if you switch out of that persona after creating whatever you made, which is highly useful.

I feel like that's about as far as I wanna take the build at the moment; I'm not playing it anyway, so I don't feel like putting in all the effort. But this is the stuff that feels central to the build; this forms the core of how the build works, everything from here is kinda just...the specifics. What items, metamagic feats, magic talents, and mythic abilities do you prefer for your god of magic?

EDIT: Oh and before I get started on the second build idea, I will say that this build probably ends up more coherent and flexible if you make it Incanter 40//Troubadour 40, but I know some people aren't comfortable extending class tables past 20th level even when there's patterns to follow, but...there you go.

[Roland St. Jude]

I'm the Original Poster, and am not recruiting players.
This was in the correct forum initially.

I'm basically looking for build suggestions for the Gods.
Gestalt, around level 40 or 50, as per the first post.

What would you build... if you were playing a high mythic, high level character?
Sheriff: Moved back. Next time, post something like this at the start of your OP so that people can know what you're looking for. As is, it looks like a recruitment post.

[Silvercrys]

Okay, here's a 50 level Psionics / Path of War build based on one of my favorite 20 level builds:


Rogue (Hidden Blade, Waylayer) 10 / Umbral Blade 10 / Stalker (Vigilante, Bushi) 20 / Rogue +10

|| Psychic Warrior 20 (Meditant, Pathmaster) / Fighter (Two-Weapon Warrior) 20 / Awakened Blade 10


First, the build requires rulings on some sort-of sketchy stuff.

One is whether or not the Advanced Assassin Path feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/feats/advanced-assassin-path-psionic/) counts as having the Sneak Attack class feature if you're leveling Psychic Warrior and a sneak attack class at the same time; this doesn't actually break the build, just reduces its sneak attack damage from 25d6 to 20d6 (may want to double check my math there, but essentially you get 17d6 from Rogue + Vigilante Stalker and an additional 3d6 from PsyWar while you're progressing Umbral Blade; it might be strictly optimal to dump Assassin's Path for Weaponmaster or something if the sneak attack dice don't stack, though, I haven't done the math there).

The other is whether you can combine the Vigilante archetype and the Bushi template. You can explicitly combine the Vigilante recovery method with the Bushi as well as the changes to Stalker arts, according to the Bushi template, so that's not the problem. The problem is that, despite the precedent set in the original Path of War that trading Disciplines doesn't alter the Maneuvers class feature, the Bushi and Vigilante both explicitly say that they alter the Maneuvers class feature, making them incompatible by RAW -- Vigilante requires you to lose access to Solar Wind and Veiled Moon, while Bushi requires you to swap any Discipline for Mithral Current. I think RAI is that as long as you don't try to swap Solar Wind for Mithral Current and then also take Vigilante to get a "free" discipline, you're clear, and in this 50 level build you don't particularly need the Proficiency or Quick Draw free feats because you have so many, so if you aren't comfortable combining the archetypes just drop Bushi. You lose very little in the grand scheme of things.

The only other thing is that Awakened Blade might count as a dual progression PrC. But I'd like to submit a change to your rule there -- rather than banning dual progression PrCs, just alter them so that they only progress one class feature at a time. In this case, you probably want the effective PsyWar levels for the path progression and power points. I'm not even sure you'll be able to find more maneuvers to take, heh. And really you just want the class features here, the maneuvers/manifesting progression is pure icing.

Now, what does the build do? Well, you're basically DAD (Dex and Int), you have 20+ levels of PsyWar manifesting, a huge heap of Sneak Attack dice, and you're up to your neck in Maneuvers. The original concept for the character was an unarmored Samurai assassin, dual wielding the Daisho weapons using Weapon Group Adaptation to apply Umbral Blade class features to Heavy Blades. Use Riven Hourglass maneuvers to bend the action economy over your knee and spam maneuvers like Deadly Dragon Strike, Wrath of the Primal Hunter, and Steel Flurry Strike to make tons of attacks with save-or-die riders. Self buff with PsyWar powers like Inertial Armor.

Your Stalker recovery turn looks like: Use a Full-round Action to recover maneuvers, move adjacent to person, use Swift to initiate Minute Hand and get an attack at -2, if you hit you deal a bucket of sneak attack damage. You can use one of the myriad maneuvers that make the target flat-footed to recover your Hidden Blade maneuvers with the flat-footed gambit, and since you have so many feats with 50 levels you could even give yourself flanking with Dimensional Dervish + Dimensional Savant using Veiled Moon teleporting maneuvers from your Rogue levels. But really you have so many maneuvers you shouldn't need to recover them unless you're in a particularly tough fight (say, against the PCs :smallamused: )

If I were playing the character from 1-50 I'd weave some of the levels together probably, though.

[Ualaa]

Sheriff: Moved back. Next time, post something like this at the start of your OP so that people can know what you're looking for. As is, it looks like a recruitment post.


Thank you, and noted.

[Peccavi]

Hi, don't really have any build ideas for you, but have you seen/considered this (https://www.jessesdnd.com/sites/default/files/EpicPathfinder1.6.pdf) epic pathfinder thing?
It's not perfect and I've never actually seen it used in game, but there might be some interesting things in there for what you're planning.

[martixy]

No builds for you, but I'd consider giving at least 40 point buy. Many interesting gestalt builds are bound to be MAD.

[EndlessKng]

Finishing the Veda Templar list from earlier. As a note, these ones are in Japan only and thus the details are a bit vague on them:

* Zwei: She seems to have some sort of blood magic. IN addition, she has a "transformation" power - an alternative state that acts as a separate job. The translation of her profile is a bit janky, but it seems to imply that she has a shadowy familiar that is abusing her/insulting her... Jobs: Shadow Sorcerer (uses "Beast Shadow" techniques that seem to imply channeling of elemental forces. Shadowcaster from 3.5 works well, but this also justifies any shamanic casting, Oracle, etc. In addition, she can enter a "beast mode," which is basically a barbarian rage, so I'd add that in as well). Battle Mage (gets an upgrade with Wind-focused magic. Battle Mage has floating armor/shields; probably a wizard with dancing shields, though Veilweaving or Armorist could also work); Bard [Twilight Taunts upgrade] (basically a Bard but with some insult spells for damage). FOr a full build, I"d say [Oracle/Barbarian]//[Wizard/Armorist]//[Bard/presige class]

* Drei: A renegade scientist who worked on an immortal soldiers project. Jobs include "Funeral Practitioner" (sort of an Onmyoji or Taoist sorcerer type deal, complete with charm papers as a weapon - go with a prepared caster like a Wizard or Sorcerer; in L5R, this would likely have been a Yogo Wardmaster, if that means anything); Ninja (Scarlet Phoenix Upgrade; it's a Ninja. It's a bloody ninja). Magic Meister/Magician [Serenade upgrade] (Unsure on what the upgrade does, but the Magic Meister is a weird class that ultimately is a battle bard - they are implied to use magic to attack, but their attacks are like Eldritch Blasts or magic missiles. A Bard/Witch or Bard/Wizard probably would fit).

[Dekion]

[Tier 2 - 21st to 40th]...

Also, build order becomes more critical here. Since epic characters don't get their class BABs and saves (unless you've changed that)...

As this is for Pathfinder, this isn't technically correct. On page 406 of the Core Rulebook are rules for advancing beyond 20th level, and per page 407, characters continue to advance their Hit Dice, BAB, and saves at the same rate, but can never have more than 4 iterative attacks. There is more here, and information on spellcasting as well, just in case anyone needs it.

[Ualaa]

Thank you for the link.

[EndlessKng]

As this is for Pathfinder, this isn't technically correct. On page 406 of the Core Rulebook are rules for advancing beyond 20th level, and per page 407, characters continue to advance their Hit Dice, BAB, and saves at the same rate, but can never have more than 4 iterative attacks. There is more here, and information on spellcasting as well, just in case anyone needs it.

Huh. Neat. Thank you for the information!