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Dr. Cliché
2019-09-07, 07:16 AM
I'm a little confused by one aspect of the Dissociatist Summoner's Eidolon:

"The eidolon always appears as a double of the dissociatist except when using natural attacks with which it may make transformations as a free action (growing claws etc.)"

My question is, how does this affect physical Evolutions that are relevant outside of combat?

For example, what happens if I pick the Flight Evolution (which grants wings) or the Tail evolution.

- Does the Eidolon manifest these only when they become relevant (e.g. wings when it actually flies, a tail when it needs to balance)?
- Does the Eidolon gain the benefits without ever manifesting them at all?

(Full rules for reference: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/summoner-archetypes-flying-pincushion-games/summoner-archetypes-flying-pincushion-games/)

Psyren
2019-09-07, 12:47 PM
This archetype is weird, and unfortunately - like many other 3rd-party archetypes - it has a lot of holes. For example, it says the eidolon isn't an outsider anymore, does that mean it's humanoid? Same type as the summoner? What if the summoner themself is an outsider? If it dies but you're playing a race that can't sleep, how does it come back? Can it summon itself through a dimensional lock or similar? etc.

Your best bet might be to find the author and ask them their intent.

Dr. Cliché
2019-09-08, 05:15 AM
This archetype is weird, and unfortunately - like many other 3rd-party archetypes - it has a lot of holes. For example, it says the eidolon isn't an outsider anymore, does that mean it's humanoid? Same type as the summoner? What if the summoner themself is an outsider? If it dies but you're playing a race that can't sleep, how does it come back? Can it summon itself through a dimensional lock or similar? etc.

Your best bet might be to find the author and ask them their intent.

Ah, okay. Thanks anyway.

Out of interest, how would you rule it as DM?

grarrrg
2019-09-08, 10:56 AM
Out of interest, how would you rule it as DM?

Keeping with the general theme of the archetype, the Outsider's "default" form should resemble you, so it can't use Evolutions that don't look like you could use them as well (e.g. if you don't have wings, it can't use winged flight).

I'm inclined to make it the same restriction as 'using natural attacks', but...that just leads to more questions.

It can "pop its claws" as a Free Action. No per day limit, no duration limit, nothing, just Free Action and there they are. So to flip that around, it's really just a Size-restricted Eidolon that can disguise itself as you as a Free Action (although technically it doesn't say how to put the Claws away, so we might as well just house-rule that to Free Action while we're at it).


On a further 'poorly written' note, it gains "Rage as a Barbarian" twice (at least according to the Pfsrd write up).