Rogue Swashbuckler/Battlemaster

[GrifterofTales]

Monday starts a new Campaign for me and i wanna make something fun. We are possibly running the Heist of Waterdeep. So here's my plan thus far from level 1 to level 8.

Human Var: Duel Wielding +1 dex/cha


Str: 10 Dex:15 Con:14 Int: 12 Wis:13
Cha: 15

Rogue 1: Expertise,* 1d6 Sneak Attack,*Thieves’ Cant

Fighter 1(2): Fighting Style(TWF),*Second Wind

Rogue 2(3): Cunning action

Rogue 3(4): 2d6 Sneak Attack, Swashbuckler(Fancy Footwork, Rakish Audacity)

Rogue 4(5): +2 Dex

Fighter 2(6): Action Surge

Fighter 3(7): Battlemaster(Precision Attack, Riposte, Trip Attack) 4d8 Superiority dice

Fighter 4(8): +2 Dex

That puts me at 20 dex at level 8. Will be fighting two shortswords/ shortsword and dagger for rp reasons. Yes i know a raiper is a better option but i dont want to use one.

Thoughts? Comments? Advice?

[Laserlight]

L5 in a class is normally a significant boost in power, and you're delaying that as much as possible. And my own experience with Battlemaster 3/swash 3 was a couple of years ago, but I remember feeling behind the power curve compared to the single class characters in the party. You might want to consider Fighter 5 or 6, then switch to Rogue thereafter.

[bid]

Human Var: Duel Wielding +1 dex/cha
Str: 10 Dex:15 Con:14 Int: 12 Wis:13 Cha: 15

That puts me at 20 dex at level 8. Will be fighting two shortswords/ shortsword and dagger for rp reasons. Yes i know a raiper is a better option but i dont want to use one.
Odd stats are the tool of the devil!
Are you rolling, because the best I can get is Str8 Dex16 Con14 Int10 Wis12 Cha14 with racials.

You are already punishing yourself by using shortswords. At least use a whip offhand to get something out of dual wielding feat. Otherwise I'd dump DW and get defense fighting style.

And yes, as Laserlight said, you should rogue 5 quickly. That Dex ASI is +1AC, +1 hit and +1 damage. TWF extra damage won't be that useful if you don't have the fancy footwork to move out without BA disengage.

So rogue 4-5, then fighter 2. I feel uncanny dodge is better before the dip.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I ended up playing a Swash/Hexblade at 3/3 and one of my buddies did the Swash/BM split and both of us ended up asking to respec at some point. You really do start to feel behind the curve and it sucks just biding your time until your build comes together. Something that's easily rectified by just choosing one to work on for a bit before multiclassing.

I'd go with the "pick one, level it up to 5" route as well. BM maneuvers are nice to get that extra sneak attack off riposte, but splitting evenly is gonna gimp your sneak attack.

I'd get to 5 rogue for uncanny dodge and the sneak attack boost, then move to BM. Your Bonus Action offhand attack is more of a last ditch effort to get your sneak attack damage more than an actual attack, so you don't really need the dual wielder feat or even the fighting style, really. Especially if you're using two light weapons, anyway, you might as well get anything other than the dual wielder feat. Possibly lucky, inspiring leader, or, hell, even martial adept to give you a superiority die and maneuvers to play with before you get to BM.

Alternatively, get to 5 battle master for the extra attack, then start up on rogue.

[CTurbo]

I agree with starting Rogue 5 and then taking Fighter levels and I also agree with skipping the Duel Wielder feat. Consider either being a Half-Elf instead for the better stats, extra skill, and darkvision, or just take a better feat. I LOVE Sentinel for the Swashbuckler/Battlemaster build. Alert and Mobile are always good(yes I still like Mobile even on a Swashbuckler), Lucky is always good, and Magic Initiate is strong for Light(because Human), Booming Blade, and Find Familiar.

[Dork_Forge]

If you're not going to move up to d8 weapons then I'd maybe suggest taking another feat, you're losing one of the biggest benefits of it (unless you use a whip as someone else mentioned).

I wouldn't worry about delaying 5th, you look to be primarily a Rogue anyway, so you won't be falling behind the power curve really, your defenses would just be a bit behind (patched a little by having the extra hp and second wind from the Fighter levels). With your stats you could also benefit from a Cha class dip (I'd say pick only one as you're already using two classes): Draconic Sorcerer will give you better AC than light armor, access to shield and other nice spells (like melee cantrips); Bard will give you those bardic inspiration dice and if you go two deep jack of all trades to reinforce your skill monkey-ness; Warlock is great as it offers invocations and doesn't put you onto long rests like the other dips would, a lot of people would probably suggest Hexblade, I like Celestial and the telepathy of the GOO would be neat in a stealthy heist game.

[Arkhios]

Can't deny the wisdom of saying, "pick one to get to 5 and quickly", but I would suggest doing that with Fighter instead. Having even just one level of rogue keeps you slightly above the curve for a long time, as you have a reliable way of dealing extra damage once each turn (notice the use of 'Turn' instead of 'Round'; opportunity attacks and most reactions are made on someone else's turn and thus you can deal sneak attack with an opportunity attack, or as another reaction based attack [such as with one of your BM maneuvers]).

Getting Fighter 5 gains you Extra Attack, which doubles your chances to land a hit (and a crit), and thus, to potentially deal sneak attack damage on your turn. Rogue 3 is quite enough for the Swashbuckler goodies, such as built-in (better than) Mobility, Cha to Initiative, and the ability to sneak attack at even without an ally.

I would suggest not to look too deep into the name(s) of your class(es), because your chosen playstyle makes all the difference in how the character feels like to play, and how they appear to other players. If you play a fighter, but use mobile tactics, preferring light armor over medium or even heavy, and light/finesse weapons, and no one knew your class, you might as well be perceived as a ranger or rogue.

Besides, even as a Rogue 1/Fighter 5, you'll have and benefit from the first level rogue features through those five fighter levels, including the expertise, and when it's relevant, from Thieves' Cant.

[bid]

Getting Fighter 5 gains you Extra Attack
Extra attack is great for ranged rogues or CA-disengage rogues. It doesn't mesh well with swashbuckler, which gets a second attack from TWF and can still disengage.
Any other archetype would work, but not swash.

So no, swash 5 then BM 3 works better.

[ThatoneGuy84]

I agree going straight 5 into a class is normally the best option.
When I played Swash/Bmaster I did find one decent way to keep up going.
1-3rouge, then straight 5 BM.
I did it by taking Highelf start class (yes I know wasted int point)
Took Booming blade for cantrip. For some added punishment/damage earily game.
Longsword Prof.
Stuck to sword and shield (I found much better then when I tried a duel as I often used my bonos action with cunning action way more then attacking)
Dueling fighting style +2 Dmg.
Wasnt super far behind other chars for damage this way earily game.

[Arkhios]

Extra attack is great for ranged rogues or CA-disengage rogues. It doesn't mesh well with swashbuckler, which gets a second attack from TWF and can still disengage.
Any other archetype would work, but not swash.

So no, swash 5 then BM 3 works better.

Agree to disagree, then. Opinions, nothing more.

[dragoeniex]

Extra attack is great for ranged rogues or CA-disengage rogues. It doesn't mesh well with swashbuckler, which gets a second attack from TWF and can still disengage.
Any other archetype would work, but not swash.

So no, swash 5 then BM 3 works better.

Going to politely disagree as well on this one, since I'm currently running Battlemaster 5, Swashbuckler 5. As someone who likes using the riposte manuever with sneak attack as often as possible, the shield's bump to AC is lovely to have. And extra attack lets you have that second layer of disengage/damage/sneak attack opportunity without having to sacrifice a shield, and while still leaving your all-valuable bonus action open for dashing or hiding. Mostly dashing.

Two weapon fighting reeeeally starts feeling like a handicap to this build the further up you get, in my humble opinion.

Plus, while it will absolutely drain all your superiority die in one go, there's nothing quite like the feeling of rolling up to a rough patch of enemies and going anime as you unload four maneuvers and attacks ala action surge while running circles around them. Not the go-to tactic, but a delightful option.

Also, if you come across a weapon that adds damage to each hit (frostbrand, flametongue, etc), you're going to find extra attacks valuable things to have.

[bid]

Agree to disagree, then. Opinions, nothing more.
Absolutely, there's more than one way to be right.:smallsmile:

[bid]

Going to politely disagree as well on this one, since I'm currently running Battlemaster 5, Swashbuckler 5. As someone who likes using the riposte manuever with sneak attack as often as possible, the shield's bump to AC is lovely to have. And extra attack lets you have that second layer of disengage/damage/sneak attack opportunity without having to sacrifice a shield, and while still leaving your all-valuable bonus action open for dashing or hiding. Mostly dashing.
It's something you can't have before level 8. You'll have it at level 9 if you rogue 4 first.
That's the main reason I don't feel it's worth it.

But beyond that, you are spot on.

[Dork_Forge]

Extra attack is great for ranged rogues or CA-disengage rogues. It doesn't mesh well with swashbuckler, which gets a second attack from TWF and can still disengage.
Any other archetype would work, but not swash.

So no, swash 5 then BM 3 works better.

Extra attack works just fine on a Swashbuckler, that extra attack if anything just means you can disengage for free against a 3rd enemy or keep up two attacks if you use your bonus for something else (between cunning action and second wind is hardly uncommon a situation to come up.