DM Needs Help with Initiate of the 7 Veils

[LegionXIV]

One of my players has shown that they want to go into Initiate of the 7 Veils.
I like to avoid banning classes as long as they don't munchkin the life out of combat, which they don't.
But I need help. How do I make sure my monsters can still threaten this character?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is strong, but a character can't start taking it before 10th level due to the skill prerequisites. He won't have reactive warding until 13th level at the earliest, and won't have double warding until 15th level.

The veils produced are spell-like abilities, and thus subject to spell resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance). Also keep in mind that while the section When Spell Resistance Applies says abjurations that protect against attacks aren't subject to SR, this applies to personal-range effects that directly change the target (Protection from Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm) for example). The wards created by an Initiate are magical barriers, not personal protections (despite one being named personal), more comparable to a Wall of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfFire.htm) destroying a wooden arrow that's fired through it, and thus an attacker's SR can allow their attacks to pass through the barrier unhindered.

If there are any enemy spellcasters present, they should be able to roll a Spellcraft check to recognize what produced a given barrier, and to know what spell can be used to negate it. Some of the barriers take a spell that's not often prepared (Cone of Cold, Passwall), but many of those are negated by very common spells (Magic Missile, Dispel Magic).

There will be a number of encounters where the veils mostly protect him, but I'd say make at least half the encounters able to overcome them in some way. It's no fun if a PC gets a trick that removes all personal risk, but it's just as unfun if he gets a powerful trick that turns out to be useless.

[Mike Miller]

The veils are also limited by daily usage and time. An enemy could temporarily retreat and fight a short time later. As recommended above, don't do this all the time.

[Cruiser1]

Initiate of the Seven Fold Veil is definitely a strong PrC, but there are a number of methods to get around veils. Here are seven ways (one for each color of the rainbow :smallwink:):


Attrition: Have enough encounters (or do hit and run over time) so the Initiate runs out of their 4 veils/day, to prevent a veil in the first place.
Initiative: When they try to raise a veil, cast Celerity to get in spells or other actions before it goes up. Catching them flatfooted (assuming they don't have Foresight up) before they can raise a veil works too.
Movement: Veils don't work if the Initiate pushes them against someone! Therefore let them move into you while they have their veil up, which makes it no longer work against you. For example, turn invisible and get in their way, or cast Lesser Celerity to interrupt their movement and sneak in front of them.
New clothes: Wear some or all of the Seven Veils set of items from MiC, to bypass the veil.
Right spells: Cast the right spells associated with the veil color(s), to bring them down. For example, cast Spell 1 + quickened Spell 2 to bring down both veils, then an ally with the same initiative as you blasts them.
Disjunction: Cast the spell, or have a Beholder cast the ray, for a guaranteed way to bring down veils.
Nerfing: There are a few qualities about veils that are ambiguous (although they've been extensively argued one way or another) and as a result come down to DM ruling. For example, the DM can rule that veils affect the Initiate's own spells and attacks as well as the enemy's (making them less useful offensively), and/or the DM rules that veils are suppressed by antimagic (in which case a Fighter with an antimagic field is a threat).

[Crake]

Disjunction: Cast the spell, or have a Beholder cast the ray, for a guaranteed way to bring down veils.

Counterpoint, an indigo or violet reactive veil is actually an incredibly reliable protection against disjunction spells, as it will block the disjunction, even though it is dispelled itself in the process.