How Do You Beat a Phase Spider??

[A_Gray_Phantom]

So my players painted a phase spider miniature, and they're really interested in fighting the darn thing. Problem is, I looked at it's abilities, and I'm dumbfounded how it's ranked as low as a CR 5...

Ethereal Jaunt (Su)

A phase spider can shift from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane as a free action, and shift back again as a move action (or during a move action). The ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt (caster level 15th).

Poison (Ex)

Injury, Fortitude DC 17, initial and secondary damage 1d8 Con. The save DC is Constitution-based.

:eek:

So this thing can sneak up on a player character, phase into the material plane, bite, then move back into the ethereal plane. Unless the players have a means of traveling to the ethereal plane (mine do) it's nearly unstoppable.

My players do have a lesser amulet of the planes (usable once per day), so in theory they could transport some of the team into the ethereal, and try to force it into either the material or ethereal plane, but then I (as DM) need to plan around the party being split up for almost a day... I'm guessing this is the best strategy for beating it. I'll just need to plan around getting the party back to the material plane after the encounter is over. I'll probably just BS some deus ex machina after the encounter is over, like some wizard shows up and brings the party back together.

They also have a Well of Many Worlds, but that's another can of worms.

The party consists of a githyanki bard (lvl 4 with a +2 adjustment), a neraph chaos crusader (around level 5), a human cleric of Pelor (level 6), a skinny half-orc druid/master of many forms (level 7), halfling monk (level 7) and a human sorceress of level 7.

They'll also have a Lillend with them, as the phase spider is attacking a museum/library.

[Hunter Noventa]

See Invisibility is a Bard spell, and it lets you detect ethereal creatures, and force effects like Magic Missile effect ethereal creatures fully. If the battle is in a library, you could turn the fight into a running battle while they search for a scroll of Dimensional Anchor, which can be used to lock the Spider in the material plane.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

See Invisibility is a Bard spell, and it lets you detect ethereal creatures, and force effects like Magic Missile effect ethereal creatures fully. If the battle is in a library, you could turn the fight into a running battle while they search for a scroll of Dimensional Anchor, which can be used to lock the Spider in the material plane.

None of the player characters have See Invisibility, though I could give it to the lillend! Thanks!

And Dimensional Anchor is a good idea, too. If I feel they're in over their heads I can hint that there's a scroll lying about. They also have a wizard that can sell that to them on the fly.

[Hunter Noventa]

None of the player characters have See Invisibility, though I could give it to the lillend! Thanks!

And Dimensional Anchor is a good idea, too. If I feel they're in over their heads I can hint that there's a scroll lying about. They also have a wizard that can sell that to them on the fly.

Dimensional Anchor is actually a Cleric spell for some reason, but your cleric is a level short of being able to use it themselves naturally, but a scroll would be no problem.

But you are right in that the CR of the Phase Spider is a bit off. It could b absolute murder on a party without the right resources, so depending on how hard it is for them, you could always have it give xp as a higher CR encounter.

[Clementx]

Ready actions to attack it when it appears. That interrupts it. If you allow readying partial charges, the party doesn't have to scooby-doo back-to-back creep along together. Use rounds it is phased out to make Heal checks to treat the poison/recover damage.

[Vizzerdrix]

Phase raid.

Readied actions should do it. Make sure they have a bit of antivenom to help with the saves.

As for the split party issue, i suspect other predators wouldn`t get too close to a phase spiders turf so they should be fine to camp in the areas after the fight.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

Ready actions to attack it when it appears. That interrupts it. If you allow readying partial charges, the party doesn't have to scooby-doo back-to-back creep along together. Use rounds it is phased out to make Heal checks to treat the poison/recover damage.

That's what I would do, and that would be the smart thing to do. However, the party has consistently surprised me every game. They're either brilliant, and think of something I've never considered, or they're completely bonkers. Though they somehow always manage to pull things together.


New question:

The cleric's go-to spell is Spiritual Weapon. I take it that it would return to the cleric if the spider goes back to the ethereal plane, right?

[Mr Adventurer]

Readied actions and bunching up is the default tactic, I guess. But yes, very nasty monster. I had a barbarian die to one.

[Bronk]

So this thing can sneak up on a player character, phase into the material plane, bite, then move back into the ethereal plane. Unless the players have a means of traveling to the ethereal plane (mine do) it's nearly unstoppable.

It would be tough for a low level party, but it does have some weaknesses.

First, its entry specifies that it does it's actual hunting on the material plane, so the party has a chance to notice it. It has a relatively high Move Silently check, but as a large creature with no ranks in Hide, it would actually be fairly easy to spot. It can't track either, and it doesn't have scent, so it would need to be in visual range at some point.

Second, the PCs could use their environment to their advantage. The Phase Spider's large size means that most PCs could hide in areas that he spider couldn't fit into when it moves from the ethereal to the material. Also, those in the ethereal plane are 'incorporeal' to those on the material plane, and there are a bunch of odd movement rules that apply there, like not being able to move through solid objects larger than their space.

Finally, actually attacking it would require readied actions, which could be set to go off after it phased in, but before it attacks, since they're separate actions. If everyone attacks at once, they could kill it before it harms anyone (or at least harms someone twice if they didn't know it was there at first). They could also use the Lesser Amulet of the Planes to turn the tables by taking the entire party to the ethereal and then ready their actions to take place when the spider comes to them, since they would be able to see it on the material, but it has no way to detect them.

[Hunter Noventa]

The cleric's go-to spell is Spiritual Weapon. I take it that it would return to the cleric if the spider goes back to the ethereal plane, right?

Actually, Spiritual Weapon can affect the Phase Spider while it's Ethereal, as it does force damage. However, if the Cleric can't see a target, they can't direct it. In theory you could try to have it attack where you think the Spider might be while Ethereal. Otherwise, you'd need See Invisibility or some other method of detection to continue to swing the Weapon while the Spider is Ethereal.

[Mr Adventurer]

Also, those in the ethereal plane are 'incorporeal' to those on the material plane, and there are a bunch of odd movement rules that apply there, like not being able to move through solid objects larger than their space.

No, being incorporeal is a separate thing. If you are on the Ethereal, you can't be seen or affected from the Prime. Force effects and Abjurations are the exception.

You need line of sight to direct a spell, usually, so couldn't use Spiritual Weapon to make guess attacks.

[16bearswutIdo]

It would be tough for a low level party, but it does have some weaknesses.

First, its entry specifies that it does it's actual hunting on the material plane, so the party has a chance to notice it. It has a relatively high Move Silently check, but as a large creature with no ranks in Hide, it would actually be fairly easy to spot. It can't track either, and it doesn't have scent, so it would need to be in visual range at some point.

Second, the PCs could use their environment to their advantage. The Phase Spider's large size means that most PCs could hide in areas that he spider couldn't fit into when it moves from the ethereal to the material. Also, those in the ethereal plane are 'incorporeal' to those on the material plane, and there are a bunch of odd movement rules that apply there, like not being able to move through solid objects larger than their space.


It wouldn't need to be in visual range necessarily. If the PCs are just strolling along, it definitely gets a listen check and would go into the Ethereal Plane if it heard prey. It's not incorporeal, it's "insubstantial" and its functionally under the effects of Ethereal Jaunt, which specifically states that it can move through solid objects with no mention of size restrictions.

OP's party really shouldn't have much issue dealing with a phase spider, though. CR5 monster vs a 6 person party of lvl 5-7 PCs with NPC assistance? The terrain favors the spider but if the stat block is as-is, they can easily beat it just through readied actions, assuming the spider doesn't just flee through a wall at half HP.

[Asmotherion]

Not the most creative solution but... beat it to death with a decastave (since your party can't yet cast thunderlance)?

A fell drain magic missile should also be more than enough.

Depending on the party's resources/access to material and level of optimisation (as well as the experiance of the players) this encounter has the potentian to be anything from deadly to trivial.

[Rawrawrawr]

Second, the PCs could use their environment to their advantage. The Phase Spider's large size means that most PCs could hide in areas that he spider couldn't fit into when it moves from the ethereal to the material.

This could be really useful in a museum library - between the corridors between bookshelves, hallways between exhibition rooms, etc., there's plenty of reasons for there to be 5ft. wide corridors everywhere. Technically, the spider could squeeze into these areas, but I'd rule that it wouldn't phase in into squeezing position - ensuring at least one move action is spent crawling into the corridor instead of being able to phase out.

You could probably even build a decent horror encounter out of that, where the aim is more to survive the spider than to kill it - if the spider only attacks when the PCs are out in the open, then it's kind of like a shark - when they're on "land" (narrow corridors) they're safe, but when they're in the "water" (out in the open), it's a race to get out as quickly as possible before the spider notices and ambushes them.

[Bronk]

It's not incorporeal, it's "insubstantial" and its functionally under the effects of Ethereal Jaunt, which specifically states that it can move through solid objects with no mention of size restriction


No, being incorporeal is a separate thing.

I see where you're coming from, but the phase spider's Ethereal Jaunt supernatural ability references the spell, which references the plane, which references being incorporeal.

[Clementx]

As an insubstantial creature
It does not say incorporeal, which is a game term. It says insubstantial, which has no specific game rules and is just a descriptive word. It puts you on the Ethereal plane, which has its own rules which do not include incorporeality. Ghosts are unfortunately very commonly used, and use both sets of rules in different ways.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

This could be really useful in a museum library - between the corridors between bookshelves, hallways between exhibition rooms, etc., there's plenty of reasons for there to be 5ft. wide corridors everywhere. Technically, the spider could squeeze into these areas, but I'd rule that it wouldn't phase in into squeezing position - ensuring at least one move action is spent crawling into the corridor instead of being able to phase out.

You could probably even build a decent horror encounter out of that, where the aim is more to survive the spider than to kill it - if the spider only attacks when the PCs are out in the open, then it's kind of like a shark - when they're on "land" (narrow corridors) they're safe, but when they're in the "water" (out in the open), it's a race to get out as quickly as possible before the spider notices and ambushes them.

Y'know, I'm liking this the most! Yeah, if I feel the party is in over their heads, I can hint that they can try to hide from it. Good idea!

[zlefin]

I wonder if a phase spider shifting to ethereal should provoke an attack of opportunity. It's an SU, which normally doesn't; on the other hand it phases out as a move action, and a move action does provoke.

[A_Gray_Phantom]

I wonder if a phase spider shifting to ethereal should provoke an attack of opportunity. It's an SU, which normally doesn't; on the other hand it phases out as a move action, and a move action does provoke.

I'd say not. Supernatural abilities don't normally provoke AoO, and it taking up the move slot is just where it falls in the lineup.

The chaos crusader actually has a stance that would allow such an AoO, but a phase spider is smart enough not to attack the biggest guy in the room.

[Jack_Simth]

That's what I would do, and that would be the smart thing to do. However, the party has consistently surprised me every game. They're either brilliant, and think of something I've never considered, or they're completely bonkers. Though they somehow always manage to pull things together.


New question:

The cleric's go-to spell is Spiritual Weapon. I take it that it would return to the cleric if the spider goes back to the ethereal plane, right?

As a force effect, it can hit the phase spider just fine, regardless of which plane it is on. One could even argue that it can "see" the spider on either plane, provided that the cleric targeted the phase spider while it was on the material plane.

[Duff]

For GOT fans, this could be reminiscent of Arya at Winterfell

[Esprit15]

They’re one of the monsters that basically introduce readied actions. Nearly killed my players with one until one of them asked about that.