Noble Djinni, Elemental Monoliths, hierarchy

[Tindragon]

Complete Arcane 156 States Elemental Monoliths "are great rulers and princes among their
kind, obeyed by even the elder elementals. Only the primal elementals are more powerful."

MM 114, Genies, even noble, doesn't say too much other than their power.



Now, if a PC had summoned and used a few noble djinni for wishes, then an evil NPC used summon elemental monolith to have summoned an air monolith to do some bad things, would it seem fair, that the noble djinni could/would contact the good wizard, and call in the owed service from the deal, to avenge the monolith, because the elemental monolith orders the NDjinni to do so?



Any other sources on the hierarchy of these creatures I should be looking for?

Obviously I can house rule, do whatever, but, I want it to make sense in the planar realm.

[Mr Adventurer]

The Air Monolith is Neutral so is unlikely to care about being summoned to do bad things for 1 round per level. Elementals don't tend to care about much.

Genies and Elementals are separate courts, I would say. So even if the Monolith did care enough, it would be calling in favours from other rulers, not just issuing decrees.

If a PC has bound Noble Djinn for wishes, then the terms of that service have been completed - either the Djinn were paid at the time, or the service was forced from them; in either case, they couldn't reasonably expect that the PC would feel as if they owed them anything.

If the Air Monolith's actions were truly terrible enough (I dunno what that would be though), the Djinn might feel motivated to do something about it themselves, if they knew about it. But creatures don't typically look kindly on their summoners, so it's not clear why they'd pick the PC.

[Psyren]

You don't need a monolith for this; just about anyone the djinn owes a favor/fealty to, it could cash in your PC's IOU for.

Is the goal to curtail noble djinn use/abuse from your players? I'd think there are more effective ways to accomplish that personally.

[Thurbane]

Do the Princes of Elemental Evil exist in 3E? Imix, Ogremoch, Olhydra, and Yan-C-Bin.

They get a mention in MM4 (under the Avatars of Elemental Evil)...

Not sure what their position is in the elemental hierarchy?

[Akkristor]

Do the Princes of Elemental Evil exist in 3E? Imix, Ogremoch, Olhydra, and Yan-C-Bin.

They get a mention in MM4 (under the Avatars of Elemental Evil)...

Not sure what their position is in the elemental hierarchy?

Yes, alongside the Princes of Elemental Good. In total there are 9 Archomentals. 8 of them are Elementals, 1 is an Evil Paraelemental. 5 Evil (Imix of Fire, Ogremox of Earth, Olhydra of Water, Yan-C-Bin of Air, Cryonax of Ice), 4 good (Ben-Hadar of Water, Chan of Air, Sunnis of Earth, Zaaman Rul of fire). Stat blocks can be found in Dragon 347 (evil) and 353 (good).

Archomentals are one of the least forms of Deities (about the same power level as Archfiends and Celestial Paragons), which should put them above the Primals. Oddly enough, the stat-blocks presented for the Archomentals are WORSE than the Primals. Either they are just 'Avatars' of the Archomentals (not to be confused with the Avatars of Elemental Evil presented in Monster Manual 4), or WOTC is really bad about statting deities.

[Thurbane]

Yes, alongside the Princes of Elemental Good. In total there are 9 Archomentals. 8 of them are Elementals, 1 is an Evil Paraelemental. 5 Evil (Imix of Fire, Ogremox of Earth, Olhydra of Water, Yan-C-Bin of Air, Cryonax of Ice), 4 good (Ben-Hadar of Water, Chan of Air, Sunnis of Earth, Zaaman Rul of fire). Stat blocks can be found in Dragon 347 (evil) and 353 (good).

Archomentals are one of the least forms of Deities (about the same power level as Archfiends and Celestial Paragons), which should put them above the Primals. Oddly enough, the stat-blocks presented for the Archomentals are WORSE than the Primals. Either they are just 'Avatars' of the Archomentals (not to be confused with the Avatars of Elemental Evil presented in Monster Manual 4), or WOTC is really bad about statting deities.

Excellent, just the kind of info I was looking for! :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Either they are just 'Avatars' of the Archomentals (not to be confused with the Avatars of Elemental Evil presented in Monster Manual 4), or WOTC is really bad about statting deities.

Man oh man, this is a tough one. Can I phone a friend?

[Tindragon]

Thanks all.

As far as the Wishes, the PC used them, and did some RP and offered payment, or future favor.

For my own future plot hooks, I allowed the future favor (he did planar binding, but didn't force them to it, he asked, and offered deal of djinni's choice, to keep from having a bunch of djinni angry with him - which I used to keep from being abused, but allow some power ups for the entire party).

As far as the monoliths being neutral, sure. However, they're temporarily enslaved by evil, so, are they mad about doing X for a short period of time? Maybe not, but, being enslaved, REPEATEDLY....

The spell summon elemental monolith appears to indicate, they're NOT happy about it. Neutral or not, being enslaved, maybe summoned mid toilet time ( :P ) makes them upset.

I think I've worked out what and how I am doing this. Thanks again for all the input.