Can I fill all level all my level 3 and higher spellslots with fireballs?

[Voidstar01]

This is an optimization( is it still optimization if it's based off aggressively poor decisions?) question.

So assuming a 20th level wizard with 6 open feat slots, and arcane thesis (Delayed blast fireball), can I use a combination of metamagic feats to have a level appropriate fireball/delayed blast fireball in all 28 of applicable slots.

bonus questions:
Can I use metamagic to get fireball in lower level slots?
What non-fireball spells can use in lower level slots to improve my fireballs?

EDIT: well that was anticlimactic, if you want to try to try it without heighten spell, i'd still be interested.

[Troacctid]

Sure. Heighten Spell. That was an easy challenge!

Raging flame and true casting would be good spells to put in 1st level slots. Versatile Spellcaster lets you put fireballs in 2nd level slots (requires the spontaneous divination variant).

[Voidstar01]

Sure. Heighten Spell. That was an easy challenge!
.
Yea... I forgot that existed... Oh well! i'm off to go make the THE WORST decision! :)

[Troacctid]

If you don't want to use Heighten Spell, then all you need is a +1, +2, and +3 metamagic.

1st level slots: half true casting, half raging flame
2nd level slots: fireball via Versatile Spellcaster
3rd level slots: fireball
4th level slots: fireball with +1 metamagic (and/or channeled pyroburst)
5th level slots: fireball with +2 metamagic (and/or channeled pyroburst with +1 metamagic)
6th level slots: fireball with +3 metamagic (and/or lingering flames)
7th level slots: delayed blast fireball with +1 metamagic
8th level slots: delayed blast fireball with +2 metamagic
9th level slots: delayed blast fireball with +3 metamagic

I recommend Fiery Spell, Empower Spell, and Maximize Spell. Also, might as well add Arcane Thesis (fireball) too, since you can take the feat multiple times. That plus Versatile Spellcaster is five feats, so throw in Fiery Burst or Sculpt Spell as the last one and you're in business.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well you can always put a lower level spell in a higher level spell, even without benefit. You don't gain any benefit of doing so other than having one more instance of that spell than you normally could, but it's better to at least get some metamagic on there to make it earn its higher level slot.

Personally, rather than using Heighten Spell, I'd probably get Empower, Maximize, maybe Explosive Spell, maybe Fiery Spell, Sculpt Spell, Searing Spell, or maybe Widen Spell. If you're going to be a master of all fireball spells, it makes sense to actually have some different options to work with.

[thorr-kan]

Personally, rather than using Heighten Spell, I'd probably get Empower, Maximize, maybe Explosive Spell, maybe Fiery Spell, Sculpt Spell, Searing Spell, or maybe Widen Spell. If you're going to be a master of all fireball spells, it makes sense to actually have some different options to work with.
And Blistering Spell! For even more damage and a penalty on attack rolls and checks for your target.

[Saintheart]

And don't forget to take the Fiery Burst feat from Complete Mage as well, because why memorise all those Fireballs without the capacity to leak fire damage all day long so long as he's still got a Fireball in his slots?

[RNightstalker]

There are Orbs of Fire spells to put in the slots below 3rd level. You're also allowed to put lower level spells into higher level spell slots...so you can technically have all of your spells 3rd level and up be fireball.

[daremetoidareyo]

don't forget lesser fireball

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020227a

[Zancloufer]

No one mention Searing Spell? It's only +1 level, or free if you arcane thesis both fireballs. If your going to Fireball ALL THE THINGS at least have an option to deal fire damage to things that are normally immune to fire damage.

Hmm, level 20 Human wizard has 12 feats correct? Arcane Thesis (Delayed) Fireball is 2. Fiery, Searing and Sculpt spell are all +1 meta-magics, so free. Add in Silent/Still so you can't be silenced/deafened/grappled (or otherwise immobilized) to stop your fiery rampage. Still only 7/12 spells. Take arcane thesis two more times, Empower and Maximize? Quicken at end for double the fireballs each round?

So: Level 3/4: Empowered/Firey/Searing/Scultped/Silent/Still/Maximized Fireball
Level 5/6: Empowered/Firey/Searing/Scultped/Silent/Still/Maximized/Quicken Fireball
Level 7/8: Empowered/Firey/Searing/Scultped/Silent/Still/Maximized Delayed Fireball
Level 9: Empowered/Firey/Searing/Scultped/Silent/Still/Maximized/Quicken Delayed Fireball

Not sure if the feat choice could be more optimized. Might not be optimal but 210-420 AoE damage each round isn't a dead weight in low-mid OP.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo
don't forget lesser fireball....

Great catch for an obscure spell. Was this ever updated to 3.5?

Since it's from an article that refers to 3.0 as "the new D&D"....

:smallsmile:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Aye aye arr sea,* even if your casting stat isn't high enough to cast spells of a certain level, you still gain the spell slots of that level once you're high enough...level.**

So you can fill higher level slots with lower level spells regardless of your casting score. You won't get any bonus slots, and your DCs won't be very good, but you can do it.




*What do you do with a drunken sailor early in the mornin'?
**Level!

[Particle_Man]

You realize of course that you are required by the law of Monty Python to name your character Tim the Enchanter? :smallbiggrin:

So with lesser fireball and burning hands you cover level 2 and 1 slots. What about cantrips?

[Troacctid]

I forgot about lesser fireball. Good catch. That means we don't need Versatile Spellcaster. Other substitute fireballs include channeled pyroburst at level 4 and lingering flames at level 6.

[Trandir]

You realize of course that you are required by the law of Monty Python to name your character Tim the Enchanter? :smallbiggrin:

So with lesser fireball and burning hands you cover level 2 and 1 slots. What about cantrips?

What about flare for the cantrips and orb of fire, lesser for the 1st level spells?

[MisterKaws]

If you're going that way, might as well go ahead and be a Focused Specialist Evoker. You get more spells than even a Sorcerer that way. All of them filled with fireballs of all kinds.

[Gallowglass]

You realize of course that you are required by the law of Monty Python to name your character Tim the Enchanter? :smallbiggrin:

So with lesser fireball and burning hands you cover level 2 and 1 slots. What about cantrips?

I actually think he should name the guy Frostbyrn, the Ice Wizard and wear all light blue and white robes and have a long white beard gelled to look like icicles and a long white staff carved to look like ice with a glowing blue crystal on top.

They will never see him coming when he brings the fire.


I can see it now.

Fighter: "Okay, that's it everybody. Now pile all the magic loot so our party wizard can identify it."

Frostbryn: "Identify!" *fireball engulfs the magic loot*

Fighter: "Tarm dammit."

Frostbyrn: "Sorry about that. Mending!" *second fireball engulfs the loot slag*

Fighter: "Just forget it."

Frostbyrn: "Sorry, sorry. Okay who wants a fresh coat of mage armor before the next encounter."

Party: "NO!"

[Voidstar01]

If you're going that way, might as well go ahead and be a Focused Specialist Evoker. You get more spells than even a Sorcerer that way. All of them filled with fireballs of all kinds.

Could you give me a page number for focused specialist? I think it's in either complete arcane or complete mage, but I can't figure out where.

[DEMON]

Could you give me a page number for focused specialist? I think it's in either complete arcane or complete mage, but I can't figure out where.

Complete Mage, p. 34.

[Troacctid]

You should also consider the evoker variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#evokerVariants).

[Voidstar01]

You should also consider the evoker variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#evokerVariants).

yea i'll probably use the increased caster level one, the othe two don't seem super worth it to me.

[MisterKaws]

yea i'll probably use the increased caster level one, the othe two don't seem super worth it to me.

They're not. They're IKEA variations of metamagic feats.

Which is counterintuitive in and of itself, since one of those actually takes away feats that would be more than enough to buy the better versions of the same abilities.

[Particle_Man]

The amusing part is that you could probably get into the Loremaster prestige class without giving up the fireballs. :smallsmile:

[thorr-kan]

The amusing part is that you could probably get into the Loremaster prestige class without giving up the fireballs. :smallsmile:
Take Cooperative Spell, and you can repeat this with Mage of the Arcane Order. Huh.

Surely, your wizard has friends he'd like to cast fireballs *with.* (NOT at!) :)

[daremetoidareyo]

Dragon compendium has a spell template feat near the end of the book that makes an energy spell do 1d4 points of damage we round per spell level.

Entangling spell entangles a creature damaged by an instant spell for 1 round. So 3+ rounds of entanglement should set up the next fireball.

[NNescio]

Take Cooperative Spell, and you can repeat this with Mage of the Arcane Order. Huh.

Surely, your wizard has friends he'd like to cast fireballs *with.* (NOT at!) :)

"Who in the Nine Hells keeps filling the spellpool with all these fireballs?"
"That would be Tim."

[Lvl45DM!]

"What do you mean I failed? I choose the perfect spell for every situation!"

"well you chose Fireball...for every answer.."

"What are you implying, person-within-fireball distance?"

***

"People say Wizards are the ultimate utility casters, able to cover almost any situation. I'm here to tell you thats stupid. Cast FIREBALL and only FIREBALLJustFIREBALLJUSTFIREBALL"

[daremetoidareyo]

"The spellpool is a community resource Tim. Your supposed to extra abjurations and divinations in"

*sneaks in an endure elements*

*Nods to Tod*

[Trandir]

"What do you mean I failed? I choose the perfect spell for every situation!"

"well you chose Fireball...for every answer.."

"What are you implying, person-within-fireball distance?"

***

"People say Wizards are the ultimate utility casters, able to cover almost any situation. I'm here to tell you thats stupid. Cast FIREBALL and only FIREBALLJustFIREBALLJUSTFIREBALL"

JoCat I compell you, a wizard's duel at noon in two weeks time, meet your match at Summoner's Rift or else.

Anyway this spellbook is now completed with fireball and similar spells from level 0 to 9 right?

[DeTess]

I built something fairly similar to this idea for an optimization competition a while back (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23793733&postcount=25). I didn't quite fill every spell-slot i had with fireballs, but I could have if I wanted to.

[Voidstar01]

"People say Wizards are the ultimate utility casters, able to cover almost any situation. I'm here to tell you thats stupid. Cast FIREBALL and only FIREBALLJustFIREBALLJUSTFIREBALL"

It was this or becoming someones dad (disguise, mislead, TAKE ON THEIR LIFE)

[Lvl45DM!]

It was this or becoming someones dad (disguise, mislead, TAKE ON THEIR LIFE)

Evocation: elements to burn or burn or burn your friends!


JoCat I compell you, a wizard's duel at noon in two weeks time, meet your match at Summoner's Rift or else.

Anyway this spellbook is now completed with fireball and similar spells from level 0 to 9 right?

Oh you're alive....
what message?

[Particle_Man]

So if you play anthropomorphic bat and only cast fireball you don't even need a spell component pouch, right? :smallbiggrin:

[NNescio]

So if you play anthropomorphic bat and only cast fireball you don't even need a spell component pouch, right? :smallbiggrin:

It depends. Can you poop sulfur?

[DrMotives]

It depends. Can you poop sulfur?

So, my character's backstory is that he's an anthro bat, who adventures to fund his crippling addiction to hard-boiled eggs. Also, he loves fireballs.