Why Is There No Neutral Good Metallic Dragons and Neutral Evil Chromatic Dragons

[Bartmanhomer]

I always wonder whatever happens to those Neutral Good and Neutral Evil Dragons. So whatever happened to those Dragons anyway? :confused:

[Buufreak]

Because the writers didn't make them.

[Bartmanhomer]

Because the writers didn't make them.

Well I found my answer. :sigh:

[Mechalich]

The answer probably has to do with the very early history of D&D, particularly with the development of the alignment system. While I'm not capable of exhaustively rendering the particulars (there are people on this board who are and who have done so in various alignment threads), I believe in this case it comes down to the various 'neutral' alignments being relatively late additions to the system, which would have occurred after the original ten draconic subspecies were produced. So the lack of neutral-aligned versions among that cohort is a legacy of those alignments simply not existing at the time they were invented.

As evidence, that at least one chromatic dragon added later, the Orange Dragon (part of the yellow, orange, purple sub-group) is Neutral Evil.

[schreier]

You can make one with the archdragon template

[Particle_Man]

I think the pseudodragon is neutral good. Despite the name and size, they are a dragon.

[Doug Lampert]

The answer probably has to do with the very early history of D&D, particularly with the development of the alignment system. While I'm not capable of exhaustively rendering the particulars (there are people on this board who are and who have done so in various alignment threads), I believe in this case it comes down to the various 'neutral' alignments being relatively late additions to the system, which would have occurred after the original ten draconic subspecies were produced. So the lack of neutral-aligned versions among that cohort is a legacy of those alignments simply not existing at the time they were invented.

As evidence, that at least one chromatic dragon added later, the Orange Dragon (part of the yellow, orange, purple sub-group) is Neutral Evil.

The original alignment system was Law/Neutral/Chaos, good and evil weren't included, the system was based on Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and Michael Moorcock's fiction.

Law was basically human and demihuman civilization and chaos was all the savage and fay stuff that might oppose that.

Thus dragons, being extreme creatures, were all either law or chaos. They were only chromatics at that time.

Then they added Good and Evil in a splatbook (I think Blackmoor, it was definitely there by Eldritch Wizardry) and they made the chromatic dragons evil (since the described behaviors for existing dragons fit better with evil than good and the existing color coded dragons were good or evil).

But chromatic dragons are all L or C because they didn't want dragons that were just neutral, and originally, L and C were the only other choices. The metallic dragons are good mirror images of the chromatics, so since the chromatics were all LE or CE, the metallics were all LG or CG.

[Thurbane]

Brown Dragons (MoF p.38) is usually NE. Orange Dragons (Dragon Compendium p.95), mentioned above, are also NE.

There are a couple of planar, oriental and gem dragons that are NE or NG, but they aren't chromatic or metallic.

[Jay R]

The original alignment system was Law/Neutral/Chaos, good and evil weren't included, the system was based on Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions and Michael Moorcock's fiction.

Law was basically human and demihuman civilization and chaos was all the savage and fay stuff that might oppose that.

Thus dragons, being extreme creatures, were all either law or chaos. They were only chromatics at that time.

Then they added Good and Evil in a splatbook (I think Blackmoor, it was definitely there by Eldritch Wizardry) and they made the chromatic dragons evil (since the described behaviors for existing dragons fit better with evil than good and the existing color coded dragons were good or evil).

But chromatic dragons are all L or C because they didn't want dragons that were just neutral, and originally, L and C were the only other choices. The metallic dragons are good mirror images of the chromatics, so since the chromatics were all LE or CE, the metallics were all LG or CG.

Pretty close, with some minor details forgotten.

The original [I]D&D had White, Black, Green, Blue, Red and Gold dragons. The first five were Chaotic, but the Gold Dragons were Lawful, intelligent and able to cast spells. The idea of chromatic vs. metallic was implicit, but Gold Dragons were called "a class unto themselves", rather than the first of a bunch of metallic dragons.

Then when the first supplement, Greyhawk, came out, it introduced Brass, Copper, Bronze and Silver, which had varying probabilities of being Neutral or Lawful. It also included the Platinum Dragon as king of the Lawful and Neutral dragons, and the Chromatic Dragon as queen of the Chaotic dragons. So then the idea that chromatic was Chaotic and metallic were Neutral or Lawful was explicit

[MatrixStone93]

You can make one with the archdragon template

What would a Pink Archdragon be, then?

[Jay R]

What would a Pink Archdragon be, then?

Whatever the DM decides, of course. In my world, for instance, dragons are not color-coded for the benefit of the PCs (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html).

[False God]

Because neutrality is a suckers game.

[Bartmanhomer]

But they did make a Neutral Good and Neutral Evil Dragon Deity (Tamara- NG and Falazure-NE) But I guess that have no relevance for what we talking about in this thread. :sigh:

[StevenC21]

To be fair, Gem Dragons (MM2) are a thing.

[Bartmanhomer]

To be fair, Gem Dragons (MM2) are a thing.

Yes but they're only True Neutral, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral.

[Particle_Man]

But they did make a Neutral Good and Neutral Evil Dragon Deity (Tamara- NG and Falazure-NE) But I guess that have no relevance for what we talking about in this thread. :sigh:

So Tamara’s worshippers are all pseudo-dragons and the occasional half-dragon?

[Bartmanhomer]

So Tamara’s worshippers are all pseudo-dragons and the occasional half-dragon?

Yes basically.

[Buufreak]

Realistically, a pantheon needs padded out. Followers don't, especially when said followers aren't alignment restricted due to being divine casters. That's your real reason right there. Nothing stops LG from worshipping NG, etc etc.

[HouseRules]

So of the writers do have evidence of confusion with the neutrality.
Which axis of neutrality is it?
Lawful Chaotic?
Good Evil?

Yes, the evidence is there in the writing, though they are subtle.

It starts with Lawful: advancement of Sentient Being (biased as allies of humans) Civilization and Chaotic: detrimental to the advancement of Sentient Being Civilization.
While human bias is not written in the rules, they are enforced by many game masters of the time when alignment started.

[Thurbane]

So Tamara’s worshippers are all pseudo-dragons and the occasional half-dragon?

Not necessarily (although the NG varieties are quite limited):

True Dragons

Battle (Dr) NG
Brown (MoF) NE
Oceanus (Dr) NG
Orange (DC) NE
Obsidian (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20030124b) NE
Piroclastic (Dr) NE
Styx (Dr) NE
Tarterian (Dr) NE
Tun Mi Lung (OA) NE

Other Dragons

Ambush Drake (MM3) NE
Corpse Tearer Linnorm (MM2) NE
Crested Felldrake (DR) NG
Desert Landwyrm (Dr) NE
Dracotaur (MM3) NE
Horned Felldrake (DR) NG
Glacierdrak (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20040109a) NE
Gravewyrm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20040109a) NE
Jungle Landwyrm (Dr) NE
Mind Drake (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123b) NE
Portal Drake (Und) NE
Pesudodragon (MM) NG
Spiked Felldrake (DR) NG
Spitting Felldrake (DR) NG