Ok I quitted that table

[Trandir]

In the last month or so I have been quite active asking for all sort of advice, build or opinion on whatever could be usefull.

All for nothing.

After aking the DM to slightly modify the divine oracle to suit my wizard 4/spellthief 1/ unseen seer 10/ arcane trickster 3 he refused and instead adviced me to take the temple raider of olidammara for suiting my role. Than I accused him of not being cooperative and as a resoult he banned any manual exept the PHB, DMG, epic level manual for everyone. At that point I just quitted after an angry vocal message.
Then I asked why not do a campaign with only core material from the get go (is that a core game?) and he answered me that for 6 months the party never complained and that I was the first one to do so. Then I sayed goodbye and hope to never play with him as a DM


Anyway
I must thank all of you who have been subject to my almost spam of threads but in the end it was mostly useless.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's okay. Go, now! You're free!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Go find an online game. There are plenty around.

[Afghanistan]

Go find an online game. There are plenty around.

This basically. Or just make your own game if you don't mind DM'ing instead and defining your own rules.

[Trandir]

This basically. Or just make your own game if you don't mind DM'ing instead and defining your own rules.

Oh god no this mess was caused by him and his {Scrub the post} houserules and limitations if I'll ever DM I'll play by the book, exept for marginal things like the paladin allignement the less Lawfull stupid the better

[FearlessGnome]

That's a pretty... drastic reaction on his side. Sounds like you are much better off not being in that game. Hope you find another campaign with a different DM to join - and as others have said, there are always online games if you can't find alternatives in your area.

As for the refusal to work with you, my experience has been that you should always look at party balance. If you were already the strongest character in the party, sure, maybe don't automatically give you everything you ask for. But for some reason 'strict' DMs have a tendency to shut down the people with the weakest PCs when they ask for a leg up.


paladin allignement the less Lawfull stupid the better

You take that back! :p A Lawful Stupid paladin is the second most fun character I've ever played. You haven't really lived until you've been a paladin in a party that just got several levels' worth of loot in the form of a cache of expensive and deadly poisons, and have to explain to the party why you must destroy the poison immediately before it can be used for evil.

[Trandir]

That's a pretty... drastic reaction on his side. Sounds like you are much better off not being in that game. Hope you find another campaign with a different DM to join - and as others have said, there are always online games if you can't find alternatives in your area.

As for the refusal to work with you, my experience has been that you should always look at party balance. If you were already the strongest character in the party, sure, maybe don't automatically give you everything you ask for. But for some reason 'strict' DMs have a tendency to shut down the people with the weakest PCs when they ask for a leg up.

If I do not find anyone in the local area I will look for one onlyne sure.

And the party balance was completely waked. I asked just for divine oracle with an arcane PC. I had the requirement either way but this way it would be in flavour. That class wan't that good I could have gone for incantrix or some other class.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm confused, Divine Oracle is already usable by arcane spellcasters as written.

[Zombulian]

As for the refusal to work with you, my experience has been that you should always look at party balance. If you were already the strongest character in the party, sure, maybe don't automatically give you everything you ask for. But for some reason 'strict' DMs have a tendency to shut down the people with the weakest PCs when they ask for a leg up.

This is something I’ve found as well. The strictest DM’s also seem to have the poorest grasp on in game power. I have a friend who used to ban psionics in his games because it was too overpowered, but allowed all other full casters.
I had a different friend who had proposed a house rule that a character could only multiclass into a number of classes equaling their Int modifier (meanwhile he was a player who exclusively played full casters that largely didn’t need power bumps), to which I countered with the fact that martial roles are the most likely to need to multiclass to stay relevant and are the least likely to have high intelligence.
Thankfully I’ve never had to play in a game DM’d by either of those people.

[Trandir]

I'm confused, Divine Oracle is already usable by arcane spellcasters as written.

Exactly but my rouge couldn't have the divine vision of the future in the class description. I, knowing that he would have sayed that, asked to use the adaptation part but he refused saying that it wouldn't help and to find some other class that provided something usefull. Like the temple raider of something of the same book

[BWR]

1. A break-up can be hard but in the end this is for the better. Maybe the DM will learn something from this


s if I'll ever DM I'll play by the book, exept for marginal things like the paladin allignement the less Lawfull stupid the better

Speaking of learning, I think you've learned the wrong lesson. There is absolutely nothing wrong with house rules, and they can make games more enjoyable than pure RAW. 'By the book' is sometimes terrible, either because the rules are bad or the attitude of the DM is bad.

The important thing is to be fair, earn your players' trust, and try to make things fun for everyone. This means listening to feedback and possibly altering what you were doing or had planned.

[Biggus]

Ah that sucks dude, sounds like you're better off out of it though. I couldn't quite believe it when he gave you a million gold pieces, let you spend ages working out how to spend it, then took it all off you again the next week...


Oh god no this mess was caused by thim {Scrub the post, scrub the quote} if I'll ever DM I'll play by the book, exept for marginal things like the paladin allignement the less Lawfull stupid the better

I use quite a few houserules myself. Some of them are very common and/ or simple, but if I'm thinking of doing something unusual I come on here and ask "will doing this break anything?". If it will, chances are someone here will find it...

[Telonius]

1. A break-up can be hard but in the end this is for the better. Maybe the DM will learn something from this



Speaking of learning, I think you've learned the wrong lesson. There is absolutely nothing wrong with house rules, and they can make games more enjoyable than pure RAW. 'By the book' is sometimes terrible, either because the rules are bad or the attitude of the DM is bad.

The important thing is to be fair, earn your players' trust, and try to make things fun for everyone. This means listening to feedback and possibly altering what you were doing or had planned.

Yeah, the important thing about House Rules is that they should be 1) given out before the game starts, so everybody knows about them ahead of time; b) aimed at fixing something that actually needs to be fixed; and iii) not actively making things worse or less fun. There are a bunch of "What houserules do you use?" threads. Several them keep coming up, for good reason. (Throwing out Multiclass XP penalty is probably the one that sees closest to universal use).

[Afghanistan]

I couldn't quite believe it when he gave you a million gold pieces, let you spend ages working out how to spend it, then took it all off you again the next week.

That just sounds completely irresponsible on the part of the DM. In the scope of most games, a million gp start up matter as well be the same as infinite gp because at that level of start you can more or less turn it into a means of generating an infinite amount of gold as needed. At best, I'd just follow the wbl table and move on.

Or, do what my table does and throw out gp entirely in favor of borrowing from the resource checks from games like Dark Heresy and d20 modern. Makes controlling and gaining resources all the more easier to control and regulate as needed.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I hope you find a better game soon!

(And now, for some traditional ranting...)

Temple Raider of Olidammara is a terrible substitute for Divine Oracle in an Unseen Seer build, mechanically speaking, and it requires far more DM accommodation to get into (three Temple Raiders need to recommend you for membership, whereas Divine Oracle has no fluff requirements). It's the kind of recommendation only someone both mechanically clueless and erratically antagonistic would make. I supppose that fits with what we know about this DM...

[CIDE]

This is something I’ve found as well. The strictest DM’s also seem to have the poorest grasp on in game power. I have a friend who used to ban psionics in his games because it was too overpowered, but allowed all other full casters.
I had a different friend who had proposed a house rule that a character could only multiclass into a number of classes equaling their Int modifier (meanwhile he was a player who exclusively played full casters that largely didn’t need power bumps), to which I countered with the fact that martial roles are the most likely to need to multiclass to stay relevant and are the least likely to have high intelligence.
Thankfully I’ve never had to play in a game DM’d by either of those people.

I've seen the psionics ban a lot for that exact same reason. With the same allowances made for core (or any) full casters. I've also seen the same bans in place from the same DM for ToB classes. The same DM limits any player's requests when they want to play the likes of a Warlock or DFA. Because, y'know, infinite uses for weak stuff is OPAF.

The same DM would also shoot down any attempt to try to fix the monk or ban the use of feats like Improved Natural Attack, various magic items, etc because it was already "almost too powerful to even play". You can only imagine his thoughts on Vow of Poverty.

[RNightstalker]

All for nothing? I don't think so my friend. You put it out there and learned a lot. You also left a bad situation. Addition by subtraction. May the dice be in your favor.