Secret doors, how I hate you

[kleinfehn]

Alright, so me and my 1st edition chums had a DnD game after about a two month break and it didn't go so well. We had a good start, killed a group of beserkers and knocked out their leader, brought him to the mayor of the next down(who happens to be a player character) so hopefully this guy will give us a share of the loot from this beserkers lair. Our destination was a dungeon called the Huts which is in the middle of this forest called the forest of blackness where the trees block out all sunlight.

My fellow adventures had the brilliant idea of putting out our lanterns so the one elf in our group could use his infra vision inside the forest. Even when I pointed out that it is better for all of us to be able to see decently rather then one guy seeing a bit better then that as we are all blind they didn't listen. So I kept my lantern lit any they gave in and kept theirs lit. Over the next few days we don't get attacked amazingly since this forest of blackness doubles attack rates and we reach the dungeon.

We had a map of most of the dungeon since we had been here before, but it was then it went down hill. We enter the dungeon, elevator takes us down, a gas that knocks people out comes through holes in the room and we take a nap for a while. Hours later we get up, check our gear and keep going(this happens every time, we are not sure why, and all our devices to counter this have failed so far). We trot along, go to the "treasure room" only to find it filled with copper pieces and six dead bodies.

It was then that the other guys tell me they have been here last game(that I missed) and that a lich currently lives here. After a few smacks on the head for not telling me this and the fact that a group of level 10's(mostly consisiting of the older guys in our group who are in college) almost got killed by this lich and we are just level threes and fours meant that this lich was probally now taking treasure from all parts of the dungeon and collecting it in one big dump that is surrouned by zombies and other ghastly things.

Against my better judgement, and the fact that I want something to happen before the game is over(we have about an hour and a half left) we continue on. We go through some secret door rooms and stupidly we forget to hold the doors open. In this dungeon whenever a door isn't help open it closes, so now we are stuck in between two secret doors that won't open from this side. Worse yet, we don't have a mage since every time we roll a mage they die. We have nothing to open the doors, the cracks that show the door are so small that not even the tips or our daggers can fit in them, and it is stone and we don't have anything that can break it.

So for four in game days we sat there before a wierd old wizard came and rescused us asking for baltimore. We had no idea where that was and made a break for it to the outside of the dungeon since we only had half a day of food left(bought two weeks, traveled a great distance, thought we would have a week surplus of food). So now we go back through the forest, almost get killed by lizard men, and return home with the adventure over and about 100gp in our pockets.

So, does anyone know any way that we could have opened these secret doors? I was thinking that maybe we could get this really sticky thing and stick it to the door and pull but it would have to be extremly sticky if we wanted to pull it open. Would just like to throw in also our only magical gear is about two of our weapons and +1 dragon shield so we don't have all this cool stuff that most worlds have.

Oh, sorry for some mistakes in my writting, I am kind of feeling a bit sick at the moment and lack of sleep isn't helping much.

[Matthew]

Hmmn. A room with secret doors that only open from the outside? I take it you searched the room for mechanisms thoroughly? There was a recent Thread on the subject of By the Book: Secret Doors (http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25616&start=0) over at Dragonsfoot. I guess your characters might have considered hammering iron spikes into the doors and using ropes to pull them open?

[kleinfehn]

Well, we have in the past spiked doors open(which we forgot to do on these doors) but we have never put spikes inside of doors. I will try that and hope it will work.

Oh, and from we have found out about the doors is that there isn't any mechanizam, it is just that the make of the dungeon doesn't want a draft to come into a room so all the doors just close if they are unatended. The problem with these doors is that they are stone, and as thick as the wall. We can't break through it, we can't wedge them, we weren't strong enough to hammer away at the ground until we could create enough room for a wedge, all our clerical spells at the time could only increase our chances of hitting, not make us hit any harder. A knock spell would be the most simplest way out but all my mages either have extremly low dexterity or they just die. Wish spells are hard to come buy so most stats are permant after they are rolled.

Is there anything stronger then this iron spike thing? I just want to get the strongest thing possible and try it to see if will even go through the stone without breaking.

EDIT: The secret doors only opened through one side. So we just went into one by pushing, and then we left the door close, and the the other door opened onto our side so we would have to pull on our side.

[Josh the Aspie]

*Pops up as an engineering minded fellow (Computer engineering, not civil though)* Can you describe how the doors opened and closed? If we can get a better idea of the construction of the doors it might help.

[kleinfehn]

Alright, think or a regular dungeon wall in terms of thickness and what is made of(this is a completly stone dungeon) that has very thin cracks that show the outline of the door when it is found. On the first door all we did is push it and it swung open. On the other side of that door it looks exactly the same and when pushed it does nothing.

What I was focusing on is the cracks that is actually the outline of the door. The door is even with the wall exactly, and the room in between the door and the wall is so thin that not even the tip of a dagger can fit through it, so no way I can stick my hands in there.

These secret doors swing one way and there are no handles or anything to push or grab. Think if you removed the door knobs and the piece that sticks into the door frame from your door. You can push on the door to open it, but if it is closed on the other side unless you have something to grab you can't get it open. These things are also heavy since they at thick and tall and made of stone so it needs a bit of leverage if we could get enough room to use a wedge.

Explosives in our world don't work and when we try it we don't get near the force we would get in real life(dynamite just makes some sparks) so explosives are out of the question. What we would need is either something sticky enough that would stick onto the door and act as a handle to pull, or something that could break through hard stone without breaking that we could use as a handle.

EDIT: The doors when closed fit snuggly, almost but not quite air tight. Again, when left alone they just magically close by themselves all the way unless we leave something it its path such as a spike. If there is something stopping it it won't close, so it is not like we need to check our strength to make it not move, it will just push a small bit, feel something is there, and stop pushing and wait for a bit and try again to see if something is there and repeat the process above.

[PlasticSoldier]

How bout a chisel? If people can make Statues with it it could probably chip enough of the door away. Or you could you an auger. But yeah sculpting equipment FTW.

[Matthew]

Hammering iron spikes into the floor, ceiling, walls or doors is probably your best bet for preventing these doors closing, though these are apparently Magic Secret Doors, so your success would not be guaranteed. Hirelings left outside of individual Secret Doors might be useful as Door Openers, but they'll be vulnerable to any Wandering Monsters, but a combiantion of Iron Spikes, Wedges and Hirelings gives a reasonable chance of success.

As for what can be done if you become trapped again, I cannot think of much better advice than that which I have already given. You're unlikely to come upon anything adhesive enough to open Stone Doors and levers are apparently out, so the only option is to create some purchase on them, either by chipping away at the edge to create leverage space or driving spikes at a downwards angle into the door itself; if you can acquire spikes with an iron loop or otherwise attached to an iron chain, all the better.

Of course, we don't know much about these doors. They can't be perfectly flush with the door 'frame' if they are very wide, as otherwise they would not open (unless, being magical, they are malleable). You may want to give some consideration to how these doors are being opened and closed. It could be something as simple as an Invisible Servant, in which case you're going to want to be able to detect them and command them or otherwise gain mastery over them. Alternatively, there may be a magical device ensuring they are opened and closed. If they are supposed to prevent a draft and are triggered by drafts somehow, you might look into confusing the magical mechanism somehow.

Also, look into how the doors are hinged, perhaps they can be dismantled or removed.

[martyboy74]

Of course, we don't know much about these doors. They can't be perfectly flush with the door 'frame' if they are very wide, as otherwise they would not open (unless, being magical, they are malleable).

It is possible that the door's edge and frame are round, and not actually flat.

[Matthew]

True, though they'd have to be sort of J shaped for the original description to stand, with the curve at the outside and the flat joint at the inside. Like so:

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i226/Plle200/th_SecretDoors.jpg

[The Glyphstone]

Have you considered the possibility that you were just being railroaded? Your DM might not have wanted you to get the doors back open for some reason...

[Mewtarthio]

Have you considered the possibility that you were just being railroaded? Your DM might not have wanted you to get the doors back open for some reason...

No, that looks like a genuine trap to me. The only DM fiat I smell is the deus ex machina rescue (to prevent the party from ignobly starving to death). Heck, there's even an explicit way to prop open doors that the party simply overlooked.

[Anxe]

A crowbar? Every 1st edition party should have one. Doubles as a club.

[martyboy74]

The crack was too thin to get a dagger in, let alone a crowbar.

[goat]

The crack was too thin to get a dagger in, let alone a crowbar.

You smash at the door with it until there's a crack that IS big enough to get the crowbar into.

Iron crowbar should beat stone wall.

[Arbitrarity]

Stone hardness... 8. Therefore, get a huge hammer, and smash for 1d12+6 or something. Bam, no more wall, after a few minutes.

[Matthew]

Stone hardness... 8. Therefore, get a huge hammer, and smash for 1d12+6 or something. Bam, no more wall, after a few minutes.

It's 1e, not 3e.

[Arbitrarity]

Doh :smallbiggrin: I need to read more accurately.

[kleinfehn]

I think I will go with the stake thing in door and pull and the chisel thing next time we go into a dungeon, so hopefully this won't happen again.

Oh, and about the doors, at the moment I don't know at my best guess at the moment is that it is a wizards doing.