Unseelie Fae Template

[wunderstruck]

Other than the obvious cheese, is there any reason this is a particularly bad template to out on a vanilla Human? My DM only allows PHB Races but will allow verified Wizards templates.

Would taking it remove the Human Racial advantages such as the Feat and Skillpoint?

This is my first time playing in over ten years and I've never messed with LA stuff before, it appealed to me purely for the fluff and the fact that it was a LA +0.

[Trandir]

If you can and your DM is dumb/gentle enough to concede it at LA +0 then take it. This template won't mess your racial bonus.

[Quentinas]

Well if i remember well the example character for this template had level adjustment +0 so it should be a LA+0 template, and it should not mess with your racial bonus , but if you need a feat that ask for humanoid as type you could not take that because you would be a fey

[wunderstruck]

I am not sure that a player can take this template since it lacks the LA.

If you can and your DM is dumb/gentle enough to concede it at LA +0 then take it. This template won't mess your racial bonus.

Unfortunately, because I'm dumb, I just noticed that you are always required to be Evil as your alignment...

....any I'm really not sure I can pull that off without causing a great deal of party friction.

[Vizzerdrix]

The shample is a unicorn with Challenge rating 4, one more than the regular one right?

So it probably if it had a LA it would be +1

The sample is a gnome with LA +0. This was not fixed when it was added to the compendium so most say it is a +0 template.

Also, always doesn't mean ALWAYS. Their was articles on that subject back in the day.

[Trandir]

The sample is a gnome with LA +0. This was not fixed when it was added to the compendium so most say it is a +0 template.

Also, always doesn't mean ALWAYS. Their was articles on that subject back in the day.

Yep the compendium has the sample with the LA+0 but the template itself does not. Weird

It's up to a DM to decide but take it if you can.

[Vizzerdrix]

Where is this sample? Obviusly I' ve looked the wrong template

Page 222 of the dragon magazine compendium.

[AvatarVecna]

The "obvious cheese" you're talking about is "the fact that you get this template for free". But beyond the fact that it's free, it's also a pretty significant upgrade.

Unseelie Fey gives you:
Immunity to humanoid-targeted effects
Intimidate +4
50% chance of gaining a 60 ft fly speed
Vision:
10% normal
70% low-light vision
10% darkvision
5% 30ft tremorsense
5% 30ft blindsight
One of the following:
Your whole party doesn't have to worry about accruing fatigue
Continuous "Magic Circle Against Evil Anything That's Not Animal/Fey/Magical Beast" effect
"Dispel Magic" SLA (1+Cha mod)/day
Living, non-fey creatures adjacent to you take your Cha mod as a penalty on saves

60ft flight speed, 30ft tremorsense or blindsight, and any one of those special abilities would each be at least worth LA +1. That you can get all of them, for free, is the problem.

[Trandir]

Page 222 of the dragon magazine compendium.

In the compendium is th sample is different from the original dragon magazine counterpart. Thanks for the direction

[ShurikVch]

60ft flight speed, 30ft tremorsense or blindsight, and any one of those special abilities would each be at least worth LA +1. That you can get all of them, for free, is the problem.Note: Unseelie Fey with 30ft tremorsense is blind, thus 60ft flight speed would be useless - not so "problem" after all?

[AvatarVecna]

Note: Unseelie Fey with 30ft tremorsense is blind, thus 60ft flight speed would be useless - not so "problem" after all?

That particular combination isn't as problematic, since the "flight speed" is now less of a pure mobility boost (particularly in combat) and is now "only" a perfect replacement for skills like Balance and Climb. Also while it feels weird, there's not actually damage for moving into things at a fast pace, you just stop moving in that direction. It'd be the worst way to navigate a maze, for sure, but it wouldn't be a mechanically painful one. That it's only a real problem for 1 in 40 unseelie fey means it's probably never going to make it to the table; those who do roll it, when allowed, might inexplicably find themselves enamored with some new concept before they finish chargen. :smalltongue:

(Also if we wanna be super-technical, the ability doesn't say that you can't see, or that you're permanently blinded, it just says "you lack eyes", but that's some serious hairsplitting. :smalltongue:)

[ShurikVch]

That particular combination isn't as problematic, since the "flight speed" is now less of a pure mobility boost (particularly in combat) and is now "only" a perfect replacement for skills like Balance and Climb.Climbing creature wouldn't be blown away by the wind - unlike the flying; and since the flying creature in question is blind, chance we wouldn't see them ever again is very significant.


Also while it feels weird, there's not actually damage for moving into things at a fast pace, you just stop moving in that direction. It'd be the worst way to navigate a maze, for sure, but it wouldn't be a mechanically painful one.The fact our hypothetical character is blind means all the enemies have total concealment - she literally wouldn't see them coming!
Also:
https://i.ibb.co/D5WtNKK/Oot-S-traps-over-20.jpg


That it's only a real problem for 1 in 40 unseelie fey means it's probably never going to make it to the table; those who do roll it, when allowed, might inexplicably find themselves enamored with some new concept before they finish chargen. :smalltongue:It's already happened - I read about it there, on the forum. The DM allowed player to play as Unseelie Fey, but only if he will roll the dice to determine all the random things; it resulted in wings and tremorsense; DM refused to re-roll it.


(Also if we wanna be super-technical, the ability doesn't say that you can't see, or that you're permanently blinded, it just says "you lack eyes", but that's some serious hairsplitting. :smalltongue:)Well, blindness was a thing for the aforementioned player's character - apparently, Unseelie Fey can't see without eyes. Weird, I know...

[Troacctid]

Literally every template in the book has the same LA, so just going with unseelie is thinking small. For example, why not be a bodak creature and get an instant death gaze and a crapton of immunities and resistances?

[ShurikVch]

Literally every template in the book has the same LA, so just going with unseelie is thinking small. For example, why not be a bodak creature and get an instant death gaze and a crapton of immunities and resistances?Well, firstly - unlike every other template in the book, Unseelie Fey have example creature with playable LA.
Secondly - Bodak fluffed as a creature who forgot its previous life - it would be difficult to justify having class levels, feats, and skills
And thirdly - Bodak is burning in sunlight...

[Troacctid]

Well, firstly - unlike every other template in the book, Unseelie Fey have example creature with playable LA.
Secondly - Bodak fluffed as a creature who forgot its previous life - it would be difficult to justify having class levels, feats, and skills
And thirdly - Bodak is burning in sunlight...
All the templates in the book are listed with no change to level adjustment, and all their sample statblocks have the same LA as the base creature.

Now, all of them were also originally printed during 3.0, when level adjustments weren't really a thing and templates weren't expected to list a change to LA. But if you take unseelie fey as LA +0, then you've already accepted the premise that no revision is needed to bring them in line with 3.5 rules, so the same logic should apply to the rest of the templates in the book.

If you don't like bodaks, there's also ghastly creature, ghoulish creature, and ravenous creature.

[Anthrowhale]

Note that Unseelie Fey makes you subject to the call and whims of any Wu Jen in the campaign via {Lesser,Greater} Spirit Binding until character level 25.

[ShurikVch]

All the templates in the book are listed with no change to level adjustment, and all their sample statblocks have the same LA as the base creature.

Now, all of them were also originally printed during 3.0, when level adjustments weren't really a thing and templates weren't expected to list a change to LA. But if you take unseelie fey as LA +0, then you've already accepted the premise that no revision is needed to bring them in line with 3.5 rules, so the same logic should apply to the rest of the templates in the book.

If you don't like bodaks, there's also ghastly creature, ghoulish creature, and ravenous creature.It's not entirely true:
Two of example creatures are have listed LA "-", and no number of LA would change it; Unseelie Fey, on the other hand, have listed LA +0
Level adjustments were added to templates at the very least since September of 2001 - at least, in the Dragon magazines: Bhaalspawn has LA +2
Ravenous Creature template was created in 3.5 to begin with - it's year 2004.

[Troacctid]

It's not entirely true:
Two of example creatures are have listed LA "-", and no number of LA would change it; Unseelie Fey, on the other hand, have listed LA +0
Level adjustments were added to templates at the very least since September of 2001 - at least, in the Dragon magazines: Bhaalspawn has LA +2
Ravenous Creature template was created in 3.5 to begin with - it's year 2004.
So then you'd be arguing that the absence of a level adjustment for those templates is an error in the book, and the DM should be expected to correct it—in which case the unseelie fey would have the same problem. On the other hand, if you accept that the unseelie fey is LA +0 because it doesn't prescribe a change to the base creature's LA, then the same should apply to the other templates as well.

[wunderstruck]

The "obvious cheese" you're talking about is "the fact that you get this template for free". But beyond the fact that it's free, it's also a pretty significant upgrade.

Unseelie Fey gives you:
Immunity to humanoid-targeted effects
Intimidate +4
50% chance of gaining a 60 ft fly speed
Vision:
10% normal
70% low-light vision
10% darkvision
5% 30ft tremorsense
5% 30ft blindsight
One of the following:
Your whole party doesn't have to worry about accruing fatigue
Continuous "Magic Circle Against Evil Anything That's Not Animal/Fey/Magical Beast" effect
"Dispel Magic" SLA (1+Cha mod)/day
Living, non-fey creatures adjacent to you take your Cha mod as a penalty on saves

60ft flight speed, 30ft tremorsense or blindsight, and any one of those special abilities would each be at least worth LA +1. That you can get all of them, for free, is the problem.



I feel it is a bit much, as well. What would be a good compromise? At the very least, the wings don't interest me that much, so I could easily give up Flight.

I could care less about the vision add-ons. Low Light Vision is ideal for my concept, but not a necessity.

[KillianHawkeye]

On the other hand, if you accept that the unseelie fey is LA +0 because it doesn't prescribe a change to the base creature's LA, then the same should apply to the other templates as well.

No, what you should actually do is take each one on a case by case basis to decide if a Level Adjustment is warranted. That's how making adjustments to 3.0 content for a 3.5 game is supposed to work.

[Troacctid]

No, what you should actually do is take each one on a case by case basis to decide if a Level Adjustment is warranted. That's how making adjustments to 3.0 content for a 3.5 game is supposed to work.
That would fall under rejecting the conditional, i.e. not accepting that unseelie fey is LA +0. I stand by my statement.