Is Cloistered Cleric Still Considered Tier 1?

[Cygnia]

I know cleric itself is considered a tier 1 choice. I also know that folks like to dip into the cloistered cleric variant for certain character builds.

Here's my question: is staying Cloistered Cleric Tier 1 as well? Does it depend on which god/domains you're taking? No dipping or multiclassing here (maybe a PrC like Contemplative way down the line) -- just pure cloistered cleric. You're probably not going into melee as your attack bonus is poor and you don't have the weapon/armor options like PBH Cleric. Would Tier level more depend on the feats taken like the various Divine feats fueled by turn attempts or DMM?

[Telonius]

I know cleric itself is considered a tier 1 choice. I also know that folks like to dip into the cloistered cleric variant for certain character builds.

Here's my question: is staying Cloistered Cleric Tier 1 as well? Does it depend on which god/domains you're taking? No dipping or multiclassing here (maybe a PrC like Contemplative way down the line) -- just pure cloistered cleric. You're probably not going into melee as your attack bonus is poor and you don't have the weapon/armor options like PBH Cleric. Would Tier level more depend on the feats taken like the various Divine feats fueled by turn attempts or DMM?

Short answer: Yes, still Tier 1.

Long answer: Yes; if anything they're slightly higher powered than regular Clerics. Divine Power means you don't have to worry about Base Attack Bonus, and there are various spells (particularly in BoED) that can give you AC that's competitive with actual armor. Regular Clerics often cast the same spells anyway, so you're not losing out on anything. Those two things you're "trading away" don't matter all that much to you. You're basically giving up an average of 1 HP per level, to get a bunch of goodies (an extra Domain, Lore as a Bard, more spells on your list, better skill list, and more skill points per level). This is a Very Good Trade.

[liquidformat]

yeah I thought cloistered cleric was typically considered more powerful than normal cleric, so slightly higher tier 1...

[Rebel7284]

Tiers are a combination of flexibility and power. For higher tier classes, 95% of that comes from spells. So Cloistered Cleric is still tier one due to getting the same spells. If anything, the extra skill points add more to power and flexibility than the couple of points of HP. As pointed out earlier, Divine Power, especially if Divine Metamagic is available, gives you full BAB anyway if you want it.

[NNescio]

I know cleric itself is considered a tier 1 choice. I also know that folks like to dip into the cloistered cleric variant for certain character builds.

Here's my question: is staying Cloistered Cleric Tier 1 as well?

Yes.

It's still a full caster. It still has full access to the Cleric spell list, including all the spotlight-stealing, encounter-breaking and campaign-ending effects it entails. It can change up its prepared list to tailor its spells for an encounter, or to specialize more in whichever field takes its fancy. Then do it again next day.

The Cleric is still "capable of doing absolutely anything" (that matters). Ergo Tier 1.



Does it depend on which god/domains you're taking? No dipping or multiclassing here (maybe a PrC like Contemplative way down the line) -- just pure cloistered cleric. You're probably not going into melee as your attack bonus is poor and you don't have the weapon/armor options like PBH Cleric.

A Cleric with just spellcasting and domains and no other features is already Tier 1. Clericzilla is just a cherry on top of the sundae, DMM or no.

Cloistered Cleric is even better than a normal Cleric because the things it gives up are inconsequential in the long run and easily made up with spells, while it gains sizable benefits in terms of an extra domain (and domain spells), plus skills.



Would Tier level more depend on the feats taken like the various Divine feats fueled by turn attempts or DMM?

The potential (and ease) of taking (relevant and/or powerful) feats does factor into a class's tier rating, but the actual presence of a specific feat is more for evaluating a specific build's tier, not the class in general.

[KillianHawkeye]

Given that 3.5 has been out of print for like 12 years now, I'm curious why anyone would think a class would suddenly change tiers?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

[Battleship789]

Given that 3.5 has been out of print for like 12 years now, I'm curious why anyone would think a class would suddenly change tiers?? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

In this case, "still" refers to the change from Cleric to Cloistered Cleric, not the time frame since Cloistered Cleric was first released.

Rephrased without the use of still, the question would be: "Does the Cloistered Cleric variant change the tier of the Cleric class?"