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Expected
2019-09-13, 07:11 PM
If I were to use Find Familiar while having both Pact of the Chain and the Eldritch Invocation: Voice of the Chain Master, can I, using the familiar, see through my Darkness and attack using Eldritch Blast in the same turn? Does it use an action to see through the familiar? And if it does, is it an action each turn or can I constantly see through my familiar's senses once I use an action and can I do it before combat to share senses throughout? What is the ruling on this for RAW/RAI?

Mythalidor
2019-09-13, 07:34 PM
If I were to use Find Familiar while having both Pact of the Chain and the Eldritch Invocation: Voice of the Chain Master, can I, using the familiar, see through my Darkness and attack using Eldritch Blast in the same turn? Does it use an action to see through the familiar? And if it does, is it an action each turn or can I constantly see through my familiar's senses once I use an action and can I do it before combat to share senses throughout? What is the ruling on this for RAW/RAI?

RAW you look through your familiars senses as an action that lasts until the start of your next turn. Eldritch Blast also requires an action, so technically speaking they don't work together.

Most DMs I've play with allowed it as a house rule.

Yunru
2019-09-14, 09:23 AM
RAW you look through your familiars senses as an action that lasts until the start of your next turn. Eldritch Blast also requires an action, so technically speaking they don't work together.

Most DMs I've play with allowed it as a house rule.

The sticking point is, that's only for the vanilla feature of the chain pact. Voice of the Chain Master lets you look through your familiar as long as it's on the same plane, no action required.

Khrysaes
2019-09-14, 09:26 AM
It may only work for the imp as they are the ones with devil sight

NaughtyTiger
2019-09-14, 09:31 AM
The RAW is "You can communicate telepathically with your familiar and perceive through your familiar’s senses as long as you are on the same plane of existence."

I interpret "as long as you are on the same plane" as always on, in conjunction with your normal senses. However, that is hella strong.

a reasonable interpretation for that phrase is that it should be split up replaces the similar phrases in Find Familiar.

"While your familiar is within 100 feet of you as long as you are on the same plane , you can communicate with it telepathically. Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn"
However, i view this as this is weak for the cost of an invocation.

JC gave a cryptic non-answer for his RAI https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/696804013501591553?lang=en

NNescio
2019-09-14, 09:41 AM
If I were to use Find Familiar while having both Pact of the Chain and the Eldritch Invocation: Voice of the Chain Master, can I, using the familiar, see through my Darkness and attack using Eldritch Blast in the same turn? Does it use an action to see through the familiar? And if it does, is it an action each turn or can I constantly see through my familiar's senses once I use an action and can I do it before combat to share senses throughout? What is the ruling on this for RAW/RAI?

RAW is ambiguous and hinges on whether the "you can... perceive through your familiar’s senses as long as you are on the same plane of existence" line grants a new ability (which would then implicitly be a nonaction like using your normal senses) or is a modification of the usual Find Familiar "see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears" ability.

RAI is the latter; still takes an action, but the range is extended (likewise for the telepathy part). At least this is what JC strongly suggests in one of his trademark non-answers. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/20/voice-of-the-chain-master-familiar/) (Seriously, why does he do that...)

(Do note that JC tweets are technically considered non-official [retroactively] after the release of Sage Advice Compendium, but it still provides useful insight on RAI.)

Valmark
2019-09-14, 09:50 AM
Here seems stated quite clearly (https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/703386258844700677)

Although I don't get what ties there are between his answer and the question.

NNescio
2019-09-14, 09:56 AM
Here seems stated quite clearly (https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/703386258844700677)

Although I don't get what ties there are between his answer and the question.

Sleeping creatures are Unconscious. They are therefore also Incapacitated and can't take actions.

(It's another one of JC's non-answers. Seems like he wants people to actually look up the rules and work out the RAW instead of giving direct answers, like some "wise teacher" giving koans. Which is annoying if you are trying to use him as an authoritative source but people disagree and try to argue that he doesn't say anything explicit.)

Lunali
2019-09-14, 03:15 PM
I read it as there being nothing in voice of the chain master that changes the cost of looking through your familiars eyes, just when you can and cannot do it. If the cost were changed, it would explicitly say so.

Yunru
2019-09-14, 06:10 PM
I read it as there being nothing in voice of the chain master that changes the cost of looking through your familiars eyes, just when you can and cannot do it. If the cost were changed, it would explicitly say so.

There's also nothing that says it's an alteration to a previous feature, if it were, it would explicitly say so.
Ergo, it's a separate feature, with a separate (in this case, no) cost.
To play devil's advocate.

Rebonack
2019-09-14, 08:49 PM
There's also nothing that says it's an alteration to a previous feature, if it were, it would explicitly say so.
Ergo, it's a separate feature, with a separate (in this case, no) cost.
To play devil's advocate.

Playing devil's advocate in this case is fitting since imps are typically the subject of this debate.

Our table went with the 'always on' interpretation because abilities in 5e do exactly what they say they do. If VotCM modified the range of the find familiar telepathy it would say so.

Also because if it were just a range boost it would be kind of garbage for an invocation slot.

Millstone85
2019-09-15, 07:38 AM
If VotCM modified the range of the find familiar telepathy it would say so.

Also because if it were just a range boost it would be kind of garbage for an invocation slot.The telepathy per say is already action free, and pushing it from 100 feet to planewide is well worth an invocation in my opinion. It makes for better scouting and spying, or you can leave the familiar with a key friendly NPC, like a librarian or a sergeant, and ask them for informations as you adventure. You don't even need the voice part, which costs your action, since the imp can already talk.