Isn't a Forest and Jungle the same thing? (On Ranger's Favored Terrain)

[BlueWitch]

Yeah, this is petty, but I'm bored and wanted to know what you guys think.

You can select Forest and Jungle as favored terrains, but aren't they essentially the same thing?
Both have lots of trees and animals. Was this a mistake?

Also, bonus question, but would Fey hang out in a Jungle? I mean we know they do in Forests, and I think they are the same, but apparently not.

[Divine Susuryu]

I think it's another example of martial abilities being overly narrow for "realism".

[CIDE]

There's a Fey for virtually everything out there. Some exist within old ruins, some of them are the spiritual incarnation of a city, some exist in deserts, swamps, oceans, lakes, forests, etc. There's some out there with virtually no nature-y ties at all as far as I can tell. In my own sort of head canon Fey are like Outsiders of the material plane in the sense that they're just born of this plane but because it's the "main" plane for play they're just....normal? More normal?

As far as jungles and forests go I'd have to say no. I can see the approach you want to take but there's some pretty big differences. There's going to be fairly sizable changes in flora and fauna, ways to navigate the forests, etc. If you took someone of an indiginous tribe from a temperate forest somewhere in North America and, with their usual equipment, dumped them into the Amazon. How well do you think they'll adjust? Then, change it up for a D&D setting and add in Dinosaurs into the jungle (probably).

Edit: This also depends on how "realistic" you want. Real world? Nah, not the same. But, also, how often is a Ranger from the woods going to end up in the jungle and vice verse?

[Palanan]

“Jungle” isn’t really a term that biologists use, except maybe to describe the competition for funding at NSF. Although these days that’s more like the Hunger Games.

Cide is correct that there are major differences between temperate and tropical forests, and one of the most obvious is the abundance of vines and epiphytes in a rainforest. I don’t mean itty-bitty air plants, I mean giant bromeliads growing along every major branch of a hundred-foot tree. That makes climbing that tree all the more challenging. As for vines and other growths, sometimes they can be so dense it’s difficult to make any headway, which is where your machete comes in handy.

Beyond this, the heat, humidity and pounding rain of an equatorial forest makes for a much more rigorous field experience than most temperate forests. And there are many other differences, including glochids, which aren’t just on cacti, and which can make touching random leaves and stems extremely painful—and since they’re virtually invisible, they’re impossible to remove and stay with you for days.

That said, there’s also tremendous variation in kinds of tropical forest. One subtype is várzea, the flooded forest found along stretches of the main-channel Amazon. It’s amazing to walk through when the river is in its ordinary channel, since the várzea has very little in the way of undergrowth—it’s all drowned when the river rises 20-50 feet or more.

Another subtype is dry tropical forest, found in areas like Guanacaste in Costa Rica and Fianarantsoa in Madagascar. These areas don’t have the same high, dense canopy as wet equatorial forest, but they do have trees with some huge spines, meant to deter herbivores and protect their precious water. At the opposite extreme is cloudforest, the classic example of which is Monteverde in Costa Rica—a kinder, gentler rainforest at higher altitude, where clouds often mingle with the canopy and leave every surface sheathed in dew.

So yes, there are tremendous differences between temperate and tropical forests, and it’s more than justified for rangers to specialize between them. At some point I’d like to work up a list of subtypes in each category, as well as other kinds of favored terrain such as chaparral (called maquis in France, or fynbos in South Africa), mangrove forest and high-altitude tropical grasslands.

And also yes, to answer your other question, I'd say absolutely there are fey in tropical forests, as varied as those in temperate landscapes, though far less known in the wider world. As Cide mentioned above, it's only fitting that there are fey for every habitat. I'd love to see what fey inhabit an ecosystem like Andean páramo, or mangroves in the Sundarbans.

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[BlueWitch]

“Jungle” isn’t really a term that biologists use, except maybe to describe the competition for funding at NSF. Although these days that’s more like the Hunger Games.

Cide is correct that there are major differences between temperate and tropical forests, and one of the most obvious is the abundance of vines and epiphytes in a rainforest. I don’t mean itty-bitty air plants, I mean giant bromeliads growing along every major branch of a hundred-foot tree. That makes climbing that tree all the more challenging. As for vines and other growths, sometimes they can be so dense it’s difficult to make any headway, which is where your machete comes in handy.

Beyond this, the heat, humidity and pounding rain of an equatorial forest makes for a much more rigorous field experience than most temperate forests. And there are many other differences, including glochids, which aren’t just on cacti, and which can make touching random leaves and stems extremely painful—and since they’re virtually invisible, they’re impossible to remove and stay with you for days.

That said, there’s also tremendous variation in kinds of tropical forest. One subtype is várzea, the flooded forest found along stretches of the main-channel Amazon. It’s amazing to walk through when the river is in its ordinary channel, since the várzea has very little in the way of undergrowth—it’s all drowned when the river rises 20-50 feet or more.

Another subtype is dry tropical forest, found in areas like Guanacaste in Costa Rica and Fianarantsoa in Madagascar. These areas don’t have the same high, dense canopy as wet equatorial forest, but they do have trees with some huge spines, meant to deter herbivores and protect their precious water. At the opposite extreme is cloudforest, the classic example of which is Monteverde in Costa Rica—a kinder, gentler rainforest at higher altitude, where clouds often mingle with the canopy and leave every surface sheathed in dew.

So yes, there are tremendous differences between temperate and tropical forests, and it’s more than justified for rangers to specialize between them. At some point I’d like to work up a list of subtypes in each category, as well as other kinds of favored terrain such as chaparral (called maquis in France, or fynbos in South Africa), mangrove forest and high-altitude tropical grasslands.

And also yes, to answer your other question, I'd say absolutely there are fey in tropical forests, as varied as those in temperate landscapes, though far less known in the wider world. As Cide mentioned above, it's only fitting that there are fey for every habitat. I'd love to see what fey inhabit an ecosystem like Andean páramo, or mangroves in the Sundarbans.

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I love this post, thanks for answering!
That goes for the rest of you in this thread too! ^^
Great answers!

[Bohandas]

"Jungle" generally is specifically a tropical forest. That said, even though there is a distinction between the two "jungle" is still a subset of "forest"

[NoxMiasma]

Honestly, as someone who has lived around Australian rainforest and bush, both tropical and temperate, a rainforest is a very different place to any more arid forest.

I used to go bushwalking around a volcanic caldera, and you could immediately tell whenever you crossed from forest to rainforest, just by walking around a ridge. Same area, same temperature, same altitude, and the two were still very obviously distinct.

That’s not getting into how different an old-growth pine forest in Europe is to a bamboo forest in China, or a fire ecosystem like Australian forests . Favoured terrain is actually really absurdly broad by real-world climate standards.

[Lvl45DM!]

I think it's another example of martial abilities being overly narrow for "realism".

This is true. Its realistic but seems harsh. That said Jungle has a very different thematic vibe. Poison is alot more common in jungles for example.

[Divine Susuryu]

Honestly, as someone who has lived around Australian rainforest and bush, both tropical and temperate, a rainforest is a very different place to any more arid forest.

I used to go bushwalking around a volcanic caldera, and you could immediately tell whenever you crossed from forest to rainforest, just by walking around a ridge. Same area, same temperature, same altitude, and the two were still very obviously distinct.

That’s not getting into how different an old-growth pine forest in Europe is to a bamboo forest in China, or a fire ecosystem like Australian forests . Favoured terrain is actually really absurdly broad by real-world climate standards.

It really could stand to be broader (and vastly more impactful) if you ask me. It's not realistic, sure, but it's hardly a level-appropriate ability when compared to any class with expendable resources (read: spells, maneuvers, powers, inspiration) or even some without (invocations).

[MonstarDM]

Also, bonus question, but would Fey hang out in a Jungle? I mean we know they do in Forests, and I think they are the same, but apparently not.

Yes, of course they do.

Fey, or Faerie creatures are found Worldwide. Everywhere. The arctic, deserts, and everywhere else. There is a TON of Fey Folklore from around the world in places that are ''a Jungle". Patupaiarehe, for example, are Maori fey creatures.