Converting a construct into an organic creature without losing abilities?

[CIDE]

Hey there,

It's pretty much all in the title. I know of Incarnate Construct and I've read all of the shenanigans tied to that. I was just wondering if there was some way, no matter how roundabout or wacky, to do something similar without removing the things that made that entity special? I get the type change and maybe the loss of immunities, obviously.

This is more a theoretical question I had so any level of optimization and basically anything not homebrew is in play.

Just as an example, the idea is to take something like a Shadesteel golem and turn that into a...Humanoid? Giant? Monstrous humanoid? And that (insert type here) still has non-construct specific abilities of that Shadesteel golem.

[The Viscount]

Is soulfused construct close enough? That will get you the Living Construct subtype and all the changes in traits that goes with it, so a number of construct immunities are out. You're definitely living now, and you can benefit from consumables so that seems pretty organic.

[CIDE]

Is soulfused construct close enough? That will get you the Living Construct subtype and all the changes in traits that goes with it, so a number of construct immunities are out. You're definitely living now, and you can benefit from consumables so that seems pretty organic.

Probably pretty close if the construct in question is already one composed of living parts. IIRC the example monster was already like that? I know there's other constructs built similarly.

Not exactly what I was looking for but I wasn't expecting to get a perfect answer anyway.

[MisterKaws]

I think soulfusing and then using a template ritual from Savage Species would work, but that's rough terrain, with plenty of flying books to dodge before you can get to your objective.

[Duke of Urrel]

What you need is a Blue Fairy (https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Fairy).

But I'm not sure how you avoid ending up with a real boy.

[CIDE]

I think soulfusing and then using a template ritual from Savage Species would work, but that's rough terrain, with plenty of flying books to dodge before you can get to your objective.

I did look at the SS content and it gets a little rocky. Some of it is REALLY open ended. It's still dangerous terrain even with all of this being completely theoretically and not intended for some sort of game.

That said, It'd make an interesting backstory for new races now that I'm thinking about it a bit more.


What you need is a Blue Fairy (https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Fairy).

But I'm not sure how you avoid ending up with a real boy.

At that point it'd feel like some divine intervention. Also, mechanically speaking, probably just the same as animating a puppet then using incarnate construct anyway.

Makes me wonder where the Blue Fairy fits into the Disney cosmology.

[Thurbane]

Well, Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP) can turn any corporeal creature into an Aberration, including golems (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040904a).

[Asmotherion]

Polymorph Any Object; When you're in an Antimagic Field you regain your construct form.

Stone Body does give you some construct traits for the duration of the spell. Persist it daily.

The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.

[weckar]

The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.
Is this where the old joke about prosthetics being inherently evil in D&D comes from?

[unseenmage]

A permanent custom magic item of Greater Humanoid essence plus a bunch of other items that mimic a Construct's native type immunities is the best I can think of.

[ShurikVch]

Do you know about the origin of Hellforged Devils (Dragon #306)?
In the past, it were Constructs who worked in the Nine Hells; over ages, they turned into Devils. Shadesteel Devil - how it sound?

[Efrate]

Not quite organic but there is the awaken construct spell in the spell compendium. Just gives full mentals to any construct. It is SR yes and will negates, but dweomerkeeper or some such gets around that if needed. Also wish is a thing.

[CIDE]

Well, Corrupted by the Abyss (EttDP) can turn any corporeal creature into an Aberration, including golems (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040904a).

That's a really weird template interaction. Cool but weird.


Polymorph Any Object; When you're in an Antimagic Field you regain your construct form.

Stone Body does give you some construct traits for the duration of the spell. Persist it daily.

The half-construct template although it turns you evil and the interpretation does imply your character becomes an NPC.

I'm not looking for just construct traits. I'm looking at the special abilities that are specifically called out as being removed by things like Incarnate Construct. Like in the earlier example the negatie energy burst and such of a Shadesteel golem. Or it's flight.


Do you know about the origin of Hellforged Devils (Dragon #306)?
In the past, it were Constructs who worked in the Nine Hells; over ages, they turned into Devils. Shadesteel Devil - how it sound?

I hadn't heard of those before. I'll have to see if I have that issue.


Not quite organic but there is the awaken construct spell in the spell compendium. Just gives full mentals to any construct. It is SR yes and will negates, but dweomerkeeper or some such gets around that if needed. Also wish is a thing.

That fixes the issues of abilities scores.

[Thurbane]

That fixes the issues of abilities scores.

If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.

[NontheistCleric]

If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.

A similar effect can be achieved by casting Greater Humanoid Essence on the construct in question and then Nar Fiendbond. Slightly more convoluted, but it has the upside of being achievable in-game, by anyone able to cast 7th-level Cleric spells.

Of course, the resultant creature will be an Outsider, not an Aberration. There may be other type-changing-template-bestowing spells that also work for this method, but I'm not aware of them.

Nar Fiendbond isn't even an [Evil] spell, so even a good Cleric could do this, though it's probably still an evil act as it creates a half-fiend. It also carries an XP cost of 500 XP per character level of the half-fiend created, so that's another downside.

[CIDE]

If you apply the Corrupted by the Abyss template to an Awakened Shadesteel Golem, it is a living creature (albeit with no Con score), with Int, Wis and Cha scores. It also retains most of it's special qualities (DR, immunity to magic, negative pulse wave etc. It is no longer a Construct, so will lose a lot of immunities, but due to having Con --, retains immunity to ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, and most effects that require a Fort save.

Short of being a Living Construct (or the Incarnate Construct template), probably the closest RAW you'll get to a functional, organic Golem.

Corrupted by the Abyss Soulfused Awakened (Insert construct here). Weird mix but yeah.


A similar effect can be achieved by casting Greater Humanoid Essence on the construct in question and then Nar Fiendbond. Slightly more convoluted, but it has the upside of being achievable in-game, by anyone able to cast 7th-level Cleric spells.

Of course, the resultant creature will be an Outsider, not an Aberration. There may be other type-changing-template-bestowing spells that also work for this method, but I'm not aware of them.

Nar Fiendbond isn't even an [Evil] spell, so even a good Cleric could do this, though it's probably still an evil act as it creates a half-fiend. It also carries an XP cost of 500 XP per character level of the half-fiend created, so that's another downside.


Hadn't thought of any of these. I know Holy Transformation (unless I'm misremembering the name) gives the Archon type/subtype bit I think it's temporary.

[ShurikVch]

"Transforming" PrC may do it:
Thrall of Zuggtmoy (Dragon #337) slowly replaces thrall's body with fungal matter, so, at the capstone, it's nothing but fungi - inside and outside; fungi are alive, right?
If Elementals are "alive enough for you", you may use Elemental Savant PrC (Although, since the thread's name says "organic", you may be forced to use one of those (http://www.dorktower.com/files/2006/09/UNSPEAKABLE(30).gif) Elementals. :smallamused:)

[CIDE]

That dryer lint seems right up my alley.

[unseenmage]

For what it's worth the Pathfinder Worm That Walks template doesn't care what type you are before application and turns you into bio matter once applied.

[Crake]

Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?

[The Viscount]

Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?

Depending on how you read the rules, one of the three is true
1 you can't do it at all
2 you can do it with a single casting
3 you can do it with 2 castings, one to remove the immunity, another to make the effect.

[Bohandas]

Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

EDIT:
No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living

[unseenmage]

Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

EDIT:
No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living

Permanent item of Greater humanoid essence might make them alive. Or at least alive enough.

[CIDE]

For what it's worth the Pathfinder Worm That Walks template doesn't care what type you are before application and turns you into bio matter once applied.

That's all sorts of weird and I love it. Something I'd pull as a DM.


Casting stone to flesh on a stone golem turns it into a flesh golem?

Good mix with the other stuff already mentioned tacked on. Too bad it doesn't work on an Elder Eidolon.


Depending on how you read the rules, one of the three is true
1 you can't do it at all
2 you can do it with a single casting
3 you can do it with 2 castings, one to remove the immunity, another to make the effect.

Prior to hearing the suggestion I wouldn't have thought it was possible at all. Buuuttt this is all a sort of theoretical discussion.


Replace all body parts with fleshy grafts like a reverse Tin Woodsman maybe?

EDIT:
No. Nevermind. The Graft Fleshmdescri[tion specifies the recipients must be living

Soulfused construct template and/or corrupted by the abyss template would probably count for making it a living creature.

[Bohandas]

Permanent item of Greater humanoid essence might make them alive. Or at least alive enough.


Soulfused construct template and/or corrupted by the abyss template would probably count for making it a living creature.

We could cast Greater Humanoid Essence and then apply the grafts. The spell doesn't need to be perment as the recipient only needs to be living when the graft is applied.