Are there ways to exploit this martial infinite attacks combo?

[King of Nowhere]

We all know several ways casters can generate infinite [something] combos. poor martials get none of that.
or so I thought.

I accidentally stumbled on a combo that lets a martial perform an infinite number of attacks. but only at the cost of taking an infinite number of attacks.

basically you take karmic strike, that lets you make an attack of opportunity against someone who successfully attacked you, and robilar's gambit, that lets you make an aoo every time someone attacks you. so you make two aoo for every attack you take.
then take two martials with that build, attacking each other. the first guy attacks, generate two aoo, which then generate 4 aoo, which generate an exponential number of aoo.
Now add in the epic feat improved combat reflexes, and those two martials are making infinite attacks of opportunity. at least until one of them dies. but if they have some way to deal 0 damage, they can effectively do infinite attacks in one round.

unfortunately, they are all against each other.
I was thinking (for purely theoretical reasons, I'm certainly never going to try a concept to silly in a real game:smallbiggrin:) iff there was some way to exploit that. two friendly warriors start the fight by making infinite attacks against each other, and use that somehow to defeat the encounter.

for this to work it needs a few factors:
- one way to consistently deal 0 damage to each others, because those two warriors don't want to die at every encounter
- one way to use the attack of opportunity against the friendly warrior to also deal damage to someone else - while still under the constrain that the two warriors must deal 0 damage to each other
- if possible, a way to get infinite attacks of opportunity before epic levels.

do you guys know how this could be made to work?

[Unavenger]

Mechanatrices heal when hit with lightning; if your weapon does more than 3 times as much lightning damage as any other type then a mechanatrix will heal when struck with it, so two of them with this build can heal up to full in a single attack. The Conductivity feat then allows these mechanatrices to send out a bunch of lightning bolts at anything nearby.

[Silvercrys]

You can use Evasive Reflexes from Tome of Battle to turn those AoO into 5 foot steps and get infinite movement... But I swear I've read this loop before and there's a way to redirect some of those attacks to people adjacent to you somehow.

Edit: Aha! They used Opportunistic Tactician instead of Evasive Reflexes and DR with a very bad Strength score to keep the two characters conscious.

Probably optimizable beyond this, though.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?199019-Infinite-attacks-per-round-infinite-movement

They mention Venerable Dragonwrought cheese for getting the epic feat early; since it's TO I don't see why not.

[King of Nowhere]

You can use Evasive Reflexes from Tome of Battle to turn those AoO into 5 foot steps and get infinite movement... But I swear I've read this loop before and there's a way to redirect some of those attacks to people adjacent to you somehow.

Edit: Aha! They used Opportunistic Tactician instead of Evasive Reflexes and DR with a very bad Strength score to keep the two characters conscious.

Probably optimizable beyond this, though.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?199019-Infinite-attacks-per-round-infinite-movement

They mention Venerable Dragonwrought cheese for getting the epic feat early; since it's TO I don't see why not.

ah well, would have been too good to have discovered something that nobody figured before.
i'm still laughing every time i try to imagine how those two guys attacking each other to fuel the infinite attacks loop would look like

[Silvercrys]

Well, that thread's pretty short and it devolved into an argument about whether you could select Robilar's Gambit early with Marshal 1 by taking Skill Focus (Diplomacy) before hand. I'm sure there's other stuff to add to the trick, like the Mechanatrix stuff.

And I enjoy the chance to go back over old threads again, heh.

[Zancloufer]

There is a level 8 Devoted Spirit stance that let's you shrug off HP damage would be a killing blow. Basically if reduced below 1 HP make a fortitude save with a DC equal to the resulting negative HP, succeed and get set to 1 HP. Just need a method of not failing on a 1 and pumping fort to the point that it matches/exceeds the max damage you would take.

On AoE attacks: War Minds starting at level 5 can strike at creatures in multiple squares with a melee attack, even if that attack was an Attack of Opportunity or Cleave.

Okay, crazy build idea. No real race requirement as we only need 8 common feats by level ~26:

(Optional) Psion/Wilder/Anything that gets you 1 PP 1/Warblade 21/Warmind 5/Crusader 1. 27 Total levels or 28 if you get a PP reserve from a race/feat). The 1 PP is needed for Warmind.

Feats: Dodge, Comabt Expertise, Robilar's gambit, Karmic Strike, Combat Reflexs, Epic Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Steadfast Determination.

Stances: Immortal Fortitude (so we don't die at negative HP), Wolf Pack tactics (Make 5ft steps for each attack we make). We grab Warblade 20 for Dual stances. Note this entire build can be done 6-7 levels earlier if you DM let's you use 1 stance per martial adept class you have.

Now get two of them. Have each of them hit each other with attacks that hit for ~1/2 their Fort saves. That way even on crits with Immortal Fortitude and Steadfast Determination they can't die to HP damage. Use Sweeping attack from Warmind to hit a second adjacent target with each pair of attacks you make (for free) and Wolf Pack Tactics give you a free 5ft step with each attack. Once starting the pair of Warriors just Buzz Saws anything that they can reach with 5ft steps and 5ft of reach in a single round.

[Unavenger]

Just need a method of not failing on a 1

Knight 17 is a bit of a hefty investment (particularly when you're trying to get an 8th-level stance) but it'll do just that.

[King of Nowhere]

Reading from the old thread

yeah, but by then the spellcasters can destroy the universe as an immediate action, so what use is it?
made me think we could redefine the tiers:

tier 1: destroys the universe as an immediate action
tier 2: ???
tier 3: ???
tier 4: ???
tier 5: destroys the world as a full round action.

sucks to be tier 5

EDIT: actually, it takes two to destroy the world as a fulll round action. probably destroying the world alone in one round would be enough to get to higher tier.. so here's it revised

tier 1: destroys the universe as an immediate action
tier 2: destroys the universe as a swift action
tier 3: destroys the universe as a standard action
tier 4: destroys the world as a full round action
tier 5: it takes two of them to destroy the world as a full round action.

[Quentinas]

I'm not sure that a tier 3 class can destroy the universe... Duskblade by level 17 can destroy the world with a quick action (if we consider we can use magic item , or if there is a way to make full attack channeling with a standard action) If i remember well there was the combo with teflammar shadowlord to make many attack during a full attack channeling a spell ,and it should require aereni foucs(move silently) , martial study (shadow hand), assassin stance,one flaw or two if one want another feat like devotion knowledge,and a mobility armor, to qualify for level 14 to gain shadow pounce for level 17 at which you can channel dimension hop (attacking yourself at the end) for infinite full attack but i don't know if he can go in the sun for example to destroy that. But other tier 3 class who can destroy the universe with a standard action i don't know

[Telonius]

The Stormguard Warrior feat (from Tome of Battle) has this nice little bit:


Combat Rhythm: To use this option, you can choose to make melee touch attack in place of normal melee attacks against an opponent. These touch attacks deal no damage. For each melee touch attack that hits, you gain a +5 bonus on melee damage rolls against that same foe on your next turn.

So as long as you can get a way to generate infinite attacks, this feat guarantees that they don't do any damage. (Just make sure you don't hit the guy next turn).


ah well, would have been too good to have discovered something that nobody figured before.
i'm still laughing every time i try to imagine how those two guys attacking each other to fuel the infinite attacks loop would look like

I'm thinking Three (Two?) Stooges.

[EisenKreutzer]

Crit fisher build and Blood in the Water stance for infinite bonuses to hit and damage?

[StevenC21]

It annoys me that you all call these "infinite attacks", when it's actually just "arbitrarily high numbers of attacks".

[thelastorphan]

/s Jovocs are the answer.