Making Truenaming what it should have been.

[Blackhawk748]

So, I like Truenaming conceptually. A skill based casting system is neat and even the Utterances themselves arent necessarily bad. It's just that the way the entire mechanic itself was handled was terrible.

What I would like is a system that could be completely divorced from class, where you take a feat (or maybe a few) and invest some skill points and you can use a few Utterances.

Obviously there would be a class that expands on this and does it better, but the idea would be that anyone can use it at least at the basic level with a bit of investment

How difficult would this be to accomplish?

[pabelfly]

The current Truenamer already has such a system in place. Check out the Truenamer feats section of Tome of Magic, P228.

[Blackhawk748]

The current Truenamer already has such a system in place. Check out the Truenamer feats section of Tome of Magic, P228.

Yes, but its terrible and doesn't work unless you invest like all of your build resources to get it to sort of work. I'm talking about making that what it should be.

[Buufreak]

So, something similar to how you can take binder as a class, or you can gimply bootleg it with the two feats?

[Blackhawk748]

So, something similar to how you can take binder as a class, or you can gimply bootleg it with the two feats?

Ya, or like how you can half ass Incarnum with a few feats. Its nice and it can help certain builds, but if you wanna focus on it, the class is right over there

[Karl Aegis]

First, you would need to identify all the moving parts of the system. Truename Magic, Lexicons, Laws, Truenames themselves, the Truename skill, Recitations, Truename Feats, Truename Items, Utterances and Prestige Classes.

Next, you need to identify what is wrong with the system. "It only sort of works" is... the game. Very few things work all the time. Dig deeper.

Then, figure out what you aren't going to change. Not everything needs to be changed.

Then, figure out what needs to be changed. Recitations not being very good is not something to look forward to.

Then, propose some changes and make some tests. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, oh well.

[Quentinas]

An idea that i had but could not test was :
I compared the truenamer to a bard (even if he has gate at the end ) and by this formulae had ((level *spell slot ) with level 0 count as 1/2) 86 use + bonus spell for 16 of charisma so 92
You have a total use of the utterance equal to truenaming skill rank * int + truenamer level, called truenamer reserve from now on(prestige class that boost the truenamer level count for this) and with 16 of intelligence it would have 89 use (probably with an higher intelligence he beats the bard easily but i was not counting optimization and the same feat spend more )
Each utterance spend use depending on the type of the lexicon :
If from Evolving Mind you spend use pair to the level of the utterance
If from Crafted tool you spend use equal to level of the utterance +1
If from Perfect map you spend use equal to level of the utterance +2
There are no laws (or if they must be there should be something like you can use the same utterance for X time for day where X is truenaming skill rank)
Each item who boost truename boost the total use of the utterance of the bonus they give , if there isn't a item who give the same type of bonus , in that case the better bonus is taken
Universal aptitude doesn't boost the use of the utterance but give a bonus to beat spell resistance (it still give a bonus if you want to research truename)
If you use an utterance on a creature for which you have the truename you can consider that utterance of 2 level higher as DC, as level for spell resistance but you use 1 more from your truenamer reserve
If you use an utterance on yourself you can use 2 less use from your truename reserve (at least one)
And i have modified the feats in this way (i put only the important parts the requisite are the same and for the feats that change the utterance i have chose to make them use more treuenamer skill rank required -3 use)
Enlarge utterance
You can enlarge but it count as 3 more use or (the utterance level which is higher)* from the reserve
Extend utterance
You can extend an uttterance but it count as 3 more use (or the utterance level which is higher)* from the reserve
Focused lexicon
Against the type you have chosen your utterance have the DC higher of 1 , and you can use an utterance with one less use
Minor utterance of the evolving mind
No change
Obscure truename
The creature who speak your truename doesn't have any bonus but it still use the additional use
Personal truename backlash
WHen a creature speak your truename you can choose if the creature take 1d6 of damage for every hit dice you have
Truename rebuttal
no change (the check is the same from before)
Truename research
No change
Truename training
No change
Utterance of the Evolving mind
No change
Utterance of the Crafted tool
No change
Utterance of the Perfect map
No change
Utterance focus
Add 1 to the DC of a specific utterance and when you use that utterance you use 1 less use from your truenamer reserve
Quick utterance
You can quick an utterance but you use 9 more use from your reserve
* this signifies that i think about that to stay with the paragon with the bard and it could be added (for obviously motive i have avoided to put that at quick utterance)
For the recitation i have tried but i'm not sure if this is okay i adopted the same way
Bonus as before but it use 6 use from truenamer reserve
Recitation of Meditative state
Bonus as before but it use 6 use from truenamer reserve
Recitation of Mindful state
Bonus as before but it use 3 use from truenamer reserve
Recitation of Sanguine state
Bonus as before but it use 6 use from truenamer reserve
Recitation of Vital state
Bonus as before but it use 3 use from truenamer reserve

For speaking an utterance defensively i had two idea (one use 3 more use from truenamer reserve , second use concentration skill as for the spell)
For spell resistance i have chosen that with 3 more use they can bypass that
To recognize an utterance i have chosen to make a truenamer skill check like for a spell

This is an homebrew but sadly i could not use that (my DM accepted but the adventure didn't start) so it could be plenty of error or think that i have not think ( and i write that in italian to there could be translating error)

[Psyren]

Yes, but its terrible and doesn't work unless you invest like all of your build resources to get it to sort of work. I'm talking about making that what it should be.

Check my extended sig for Kyeudo's excellent Truenamer fix, it does everything you want. Not only does it fix the underlying math of the Truenamer and improve the Laws and Utterances, it also creates additional "dabbler feats" that should fit what you're looking for, letting any class do some decent 'Naming on the side. It even adds some basic/innate effects to the Truespeak skill itself called Whispers that work a bit like cantrips, such as letting you move objects, make objects shed light, or start small fires. Lastly, it creates a new Truenaming base class called the Academic (a prepared Truenamer) and overhauls the prestige classes.


First, you would need to identify all the moving parts of the system. Truename Magic, Lexicons, Laws, Truenames themselves, the Truename skill, Recitations, Truename Feats, Truename Items, Utterances and Prestige Classes.

Next, you need to identify what is wrong with the system. "It only sort of works" is... the game. Very few things work all the time. Dig deeper.

Then, figure out what you aren't going to change. Not everything needs to be changed.

Then, figure out what needs to be changed. Recitations not being very good is not something to look forward to.

Then, propose some changes and make some tests. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, oh well.

See above, the heavy lifting has been done by the community already :smallsmile:

I've used this fix in a high-level campaign and can vouch for its effectiveness; I didn't need an item familiar, paragnostic assembly or any of the other shenanigans from Zaq's guide thanks to the math working so well.