Playing Past Level 10

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I myself have not had sufficient chances to dm for more than a few sessions, but the other three dms have a tendency to constantly switch between their 3 campaigns. And due to that, we rarely play past level 8, let alone make it to level 10, because one DM decides to drop the campaign at a convenient place, and we never touch those characters again, while a different DM starts a new campaign at level 1.

Given the circumstances, do y'all have any recommendations for my DMs, or the group in general, to as of what we are doing wrong, and what we should do, because I'm tired of dropping characters before they get a chance to sufficiently place themselves into a prestige class.

The way that it is currently working is, we have 3.2 different Dms with different campaigns

Lil Red - DMing an all Elf campaign that focuses on roleplay, where the majority of our campaign so far has been working ourselves up into a higher political standing in a rebel organization in order to either take over the government, or shut the rebellion down completely (Level 5)

Big Daddy - DMing an "Evil" campaign where we work for an evil empress and complete tasks that will further our domination over the civilians of the "Good" country, Currently on Hiatus because our dm has to take care of his newborn son, therefore doesn't have the time to actually plan out the rest of the campaign (Level 6)

Sparklepants - We are restarting the campaign at level 2, and this is a campaign that we don't know much about other than the fact that the campaign is called "Magic McGuffins" we ar beginning tomorrow, and we switched off of the elf campaign because two of our players are not going to be able to attend for a little while, and once they return, we will see where we go from there

Me (GubGub) - I have run around 6 different 1-off campaigns over the course of the last year because a few of our party members would be out of state, or just not able to come because of schedule conflictions, and we still want to play, so I whip up a short single session mission for the players, where they use my pre-made characters.

As you can see, we have to constantly switch between campaigns due to all of out members having conflicting schedules, and when half of your party are DMs, they see that the best idea is to play a different campaign. And a lot of the time, when we get to a good stopping point, we switch over to a different campaign, allowing the Dm to plan out more of the campaign as we pick up in the middle of a separate campaign, which that DM has been planning as they were playing the previous campaign, and we cycle through like this indefinitely and have been for a few years now.

[weckar]

Simple solution would be: Don't start at level 1.

[exelsisxax]

Have you spoken with your group about this? If no, do so. If you have, report what they think of the situation.

Once we have meaningful information, suggestions may be offered. But right now you're like a guy saying that his car doesn't drive, but we don't know if you tried to turn it on, if you put gas in it, etc. If everyone else in your group likes this state of affairs, you have to deal or persuade them to want to play a high level campaign.

[pabelfly]

If you run the occasional one-shot, why not tell your prospective players to build mid or high-level characters for it? Maybe that will give them a taste for higher-level play.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I understand what everyone is saying, I guess the reason that I haven't deliberately asked why, is because I'm still relatively new to the group, and i have only been playing dnd for 2 years this October, I also believe that my DMs have a hard enough time keeping the party in check, let alone balancing it for higher levels, where things just get more ridiculous.

I feel like its not my place to question why the DMs do certain things because I'm still new to the game. Regardless of whether or not I dislike the fact, it's not up to me to decide what level we play until.

[weckar]

Except you say you DM yourself, even if only one-offs. When you're in the big chair, it very much is your choice.

[Quertus]

I understand what everyone is saying, I guess the reason that I haven't deliberately asked why, is because I'm still relatively new to the group, and i have only been playing dnd for 2 years this October, I also believe that my DMs have a hard enough time keeping the party in check, let alone balancing it for higher levels, where things just get more ridiculous.

I feel like its not my place to question why the DMs do certain things because I'm still new to the game. Regardless of whether or not I dislike the fact, it's not up to me to decide what level we play until.

Teach your group that it is the *group's* responsibility, not the *GM's* responsibility, to establish and maintain balance.

Then, it will be much easier for you to get the GMs to agree to run higher level games.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

There has been conflict between all of the DMs (Me included) and each of them DM differently, and all of the other DMs (Me not included) begin to talk behind their back and complain about the way that they run the game, and this has lead to fights between the players and the DMs about certain rules and actions, because some DMs allow certain things, while others disagree.

One person specifically (Lil Red) is especially bad with this, in literally every single campaign I play with him, he constantly fights with the DM, and in my case, he has literally quit half way through, and refused to play half of my campaigns because he doesn't like the way that do something, or says (and his has happened each time) "I wouldn't DM it that way" or "My Character wouldn't do that, find a better plot hook" or even "If you don't let me do this, I'm going to quit right now". But when he DMs, he really gets onto any person who questions the way he does something, doesn't bite the plot hook, or defends a single rule that would be fair to the party that he doesn't agree with.

[DodermanDefense]

Lots of things to consider here.
Firstly, let me echo what others have said; being new to the game is no reason not to ask questions and make suggestions. A DM worth their salt is going to take what the players say into consideration.
Starting at levels higher than 1 can be a great way to acquire a taste for higher-level play, but too high levelled and it can feel cheap or contrived. Or worse, you might get saddled with a character with more abilities than you're ready to keep track of.
As far as campaign themes go, I've found that my most successful, long, deep, high-level runs have been somewhat generic campaigns, that featured heavily themed arcs throughout. With a vanilla campaign setting, you have the warm familiar that your group can return to when interest runs dry in something more novel, and easy integration of those more novel elements when interest is in them high.
Frankly, the more specific and novel and niche a campaign is, the less likely it is to be played over long term periods. Again, that's been my personal experience, and that may not be the case for you.
So it might be better to visit a steampunk-heavy, technocracy area in your existing game, rather than starting an entire new steampunk campaign. Maybe have the characters travel to a macabre haunted castle and face the terrors therein, rather than start a whole new horror-themed campaign.
This method would also allow for a rotating DM schedule. They would need to share only minimal notes (keep each DM's plots separate and unrelated) and so spoilers could easily be kept to a minimum. Something to consider.
When it comes to the attendance question, that's less easily answered. It might be worth looking into remote gaming options. There are plenty of ways to connect digitally from great distances. Maybe putting technology to work can help solve some of your woes.
You may also consider a more episodic play-style, where DMs allow for characters to often rotate in and out as their players are available. Just make sure the characters that end up sitting out for a long time get some bonus XP, so they don't fall too far behind.
In one campaign I'm running, the PCs are governed by a magical contract where only 5 of them can be on the material plane at once. The rest go hang out in Sigil. They are literally teleported back and forth, per the strange arcane rules of their contract.
This exists to facilitate the fact that my whole gaming group is 30- and 20-somethings with jobs and kids and real life. Whenever someone can't make it, another character is teleported in and the group keeps on trucking.
This also creates some really cool roleplaying scenarios where the PCs have to bring the guy that just teleported in up to speed on what's happening.
Maybe some version of something here can help. I sure hope it does; nothing breaks my heart like a gaming group breaking up.
A relationship is one thing... but your D&D group?
Not on my watch.
-L. Doderman

[Faily]

There has been conflict between all of the DMs (Me included) and each of them DM differently, and all of the other DMs (Me not included) begin to talk behind their back and complain about the way that they run the game, and this has lead to fights between the players and the DMs about certain rules and actions, because some DMs allow certain things, while others disagree.

One person specifically (Lil Red) is especially bad with this, in literally every single campaign I play with him, he constantly fights with the DM, and in my case, he has literally quit half way through, and refused to play half of my campaigns because he doesn't like the way that do something, or says (and his has happened each time) "I wouldn't DM it that way" or "My Character wouldn't do that, find a better plot hook" or even "If you don't let me do this, I'm going to quit right now". But when he DMs, he really gets onto any person who questions the way he does something, doesn't bite the plot hook, or defends a single rule that would be fair to the party that he doesn't agree with.


Ok, that sounds like a problem the group should maybe adress.

1. Respect how others GM and their GM-style. Don't like that someone doesn't allow Psionics or whatever? Just accept it, and move on. This is how "that world" is.
2. Stop throwing shade. It's not cute.
3. You're not the DM. Unless there is a legitimate complaint, "I wouldn't DM it that way" is not. If there is a rules question that needs to be solved, you can mentioned how you have ruled on it or would rule on it, but the final call is on the DM.
4. Maybe sit down and come to agreements on some rulings to make it easier to remember between the different campaigns.

[DodermanDefense]

Also, boot Lil' Red. He sounds like a real jerk, whose time would be better spent in anger management than around the gaming table. If my instincts are correct on this one, you'll be much better off without him.
-L. Doderman

[DodermanDefense]

Ok, that sounds like a problem the group should maybe adress.

1. Respect how others GM and their GM-style. Don't like that someone doesn't allow Psionics or whatever? Just accept it, and move on. This is how "that world" is.
2. Stop throwing shade. It's not cute.
3. You're not the DM. Unless there is a legitimate complaint, "I wouldn't DM it that way" is not. If there is a rules question that needs to be solved, you can mentioned how you have ruled on it or would rule on it, but the final call is on the DM.
4. Maybe sit down and come to agreements on some rulings to make it easier to remember between the different campaigns.

That's probably the more diplomatic route to take, one I also recommend. Ultimately, you've got to judge the situation. Something best done as a gaming group.
-L. Doderman

[pabelfly]

Also, boot Lil' Red. He sounds like a real jerk, whose time would be better spent in anger management than around the gaming table. If my instincts are correct on this one, you'll be much better off without him.
-L. Doderman

Sounds like he'd boot himself if he does one of his "if you don't do it this way, I'm leaving" ultimatums and you just replied with: "okay, have a good day."

[Telonius]

In my experience, when groups break up it's usually for one (or more) of three reasons.

First, sometimes real life does intrude. Having kids, increased responsibilities at your job, having to move, illness; there are loads of genuinely good reason to have less time available for gaming and have to drop out midway. There's really nothing you can do about that kind of drop-out of the game; it's just an unfortunate fact of life.

Second, scheduling conflicts. Setting up a gaming time is always an exercise in cat herding. Sometimes groups can make it work for a few sessions, but then just can't figure it out. Again, not much you can do about that one.

Third, sometimes groups are just dysfunctional. People aren't having fun, for one reason or another, and can't figure out how to make it work for everybody. This is the one that people can do something about, but only if everybody is willing to work at it.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

I'm not trying to make him out to be a bad person, but I have been friends with him (Lil Red) for a long time, and absolutely love playing with him, he has many creative ways of doing things, and I feel like the overall concept of his campaign is brilliant (it takes place in a continent filled with almost only elves, and there is a whole system of integrating immigrants from the fey-wild into society which is parallel to around the industrial revolution), its just that he has a tendency to lash out when things don't go his way, and this always lead to further conflict between players and the DM.

[False God]

Sounds really like something you need to express to a group that you'd like to push things a little further up the level ladder.

If your DMs like to switch campaigns, see if they'd be willing to rotate on a session-by-session basis, rather than mothballing an entire game for a year. IE: this sessions we're doing Game 1, next sessions it's Game 2, etc...rinse and repeat.

[DodermanDefense]

Sounds like he'd boot himself if he does one of his "if you don't do it this way, I'm leaving" ultimatums and you just replied with: "okay, have a good day."

That's pretty much what I was insinuating. It's been my experience that life's too short to abide annoying players and dysfunctional gaming groups. Nothing personal (it is just a game, after all). There's just lots of fish in the sea. Find the one you like.
Honestly, Lil' Red might take it as kind of a wake-up call and change his ways.
Especially if he really is a good friend.

[Quertus]

There has been conflict between all of the DMs (Me included) and each of them DM differently, and all of the other DMs (Me not included) begin to talk behind their back and complain about the way that they run the game, and this has lead to fights between the players and the DMs about certain rules and actions, because some DMs allow certain things, while others disagree.

One person specifically (Lil Red) is especially bad with this, in literally every single campaign I play with him, he constantly fights with the DM, and in my case, he has literally quit half way through, and refused to play half of my campaigns because he doesn't like the way that do something, or says (and his has happened each time) "I wouldn't DM it that way" or "My Character wouldn't do that, find a better plot hook" or even "If you don't let me do this, I'm going to quit right now". But when he DMs, he really gets onto any person who questions the way he does something, doesn't bite the plot hook, or defends a single rule that would be fair to the party that he doesn't agree with.

Wow. Can you give some specific examples? Because the rulings bit, unless there's some reading comprehension issues, or you're all playing in his world, this is a… curious complaint. But the plot hooks? Somebody really needs to point out his inconsistency, and ask him to pick a stance. (Personally, I'm guessing none of y'all are any good at working together to make sure that characters and plot hooks match. Y'all might wanna prioritize having a little sit-down and workshop that first. Make sure have the basics down before you reach for the stars.)

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

Wow. Can you give some specific examples? Because the rulings bit, unless there's some reading comprehension issues, or you're all playing in his world, this is a… curious complaint. But the plot hooks? Somebody really needs to point out his inconsistency, and ask him to pick a stance.
The most upsetting example of this, was when they were playing a little campaign that I made that was formulated all around a goofy little joke, I can explain later, and because of that, there were certain things that I couldn't tell them, because they would expose the punch line way too early. The main thing that made it different, is that depending on what choices you make, the campaign could take 5 minutes to complete (No rolls above 25 needed), or upwards of 2 full 5 hour sessions (following all of the rabbit trails). It all depends on how lucky they get when choosing at random.
The way the campaign worked was, they began at level 3 and the party looked like this:
Detective Eddy Valiant - Factotum: Master Detective: Absolute skill monkey (Lil Red)
Edgy Boi- Death Master: Critical thinker (and by critical, I mean purely instinct, pure unreasonable instinct) (Big Daddy)
Johnny Red-no - Fighter: Tornado of spinning blades: DPS (Sparklepants)
As you can see, I was DM-ing 3 DMs
They were given an order by a the Precinct of Eddy to assist in helping a Village of orcs find a missing item, which was stolen by a goblin, but the catch is, there were 4 different goblins that stole 4 different things, and only one of them was stolen from the village chief (The one who sent the request). Each of the goblins went in a different direction, and only by taking a leap of faith, can you find more clues to as of which goblin has the special item (Item filled with a lot of magic).

The main thing is, the village has a secret, they have a method of creating extremely powerful magic items, and they can only create one per year, and only the village chief and the former village chief know how its done, except that they don't, because with the method they use, they use magically induced amnesia to forget how it's done, until it's time to make the next item, where the magic wears off, and they make the next item, resuming the cycle.

The party would learn this after successfully bringing back the right item. That is, if they had made it out of the village.

Eddy valiant claimed that there was not enough evidence to choose a direction, and proceeded to vandalize the chief's house attempting to steal a magic item that was embedded in the house, and had been for over 100 years, claiming that because the chief was so dumb, he wouldn't be able to tell the difference, clearly and deliberately insulting the chief and former chief to their faces, terrorized the villagers in attempt to gain more information (Literally torturing one of the guards because he though he was lying to him, claimed that the goblin was too fast to see, and all he saw was a green blur), and refused to let any of his party members choose a direction, literally talking over the other players to keep them from progressing. The best that I could do was try and defend myself, but he wouldn't allow that, and proceeded to insult me as a DM. He at that point refused to play any more.
I ended up having the wife of the chief use their special pigeon (Magically enhanced to fly at speeds upwards of Mach 3, makes a wicked weapon) to send a message to valiant's precinct located half a day's travel, and have eddy valiant arrested and have his license revoked (For obvious reasons) and Lil Red left the table.

I managed to convince the rest of the party to follow through with the campaign, and they got lucky, and finished the campaign 20 minutes later, after we spent about 4 hours arguing in the hub town.
Party: What's that in your hand
Goblin: Is poop, I has poop
P: What
G: I share
*Goblin proceeds to touch party, teleportation them back to the shed behind the Chief's house*
Magical beast called Baso-qued Chokoiu (made up creature that has the ability to concentrate an entire year's worth of magic charged into a singular poop, which can be refined to enchant a extremely powerful magic item)

The Goblin: Beedle, had a magical ability to increase his speed ten fold, and was so fast, he literally stole the turd out of the monster's butt

[weckar]

To be fair, I am not sure if that kind of game is normal at your table -- or if those character names are -- but it really gives the impression of a game not to be taken seriously. I too would think that my actions would not really have real consequences.

Plus, was he playing Evil? Because if so his behavior is doubly justified.

[SpicyBoi_Nezu]

To be fair, I am not sure if that kind of game is normal at your table -- or if those character names are -- but it really gives the impression of a game not to be taken seriously. I too would think that my actions would not really have real consequences.

Plus, was he playing Evil? Because if so his behavior is doubly justified.

That's the point, the game was not meant to be taken seriously, he took it seriously, so I treated it seriously. If he can't take a joke, or give me a little leeway, I'm going to treat it as a serious matter, and respond as such. Hence him having real consequences.'

Also, he was lawful, or as close to lawful as a detective can be. Clearly he switched to chaotic half way through, but regardless, I don't believe his actions were befitting of a detective.

[Rhyltran]

I am a long term dm and wish I got to play more as a charater. We have had a few campaigns go to high level play though most end in the level 16 range. The trick is to stick with a story intil completion before starting a new adventure or you get bogged down with campaigns that never reach a conclusion. Another thing to realize is that high level campaigns usually end up feeling very super heroy. Characters are powerful and sometimes can single handedly take down encounters. Avoid rocket tag and just create fights that you think are interesting. Most of the time your players will blow right through them and this is fine but the few fights things go sideways become more memorable. Make the real challenges things that are non combat related or political. Things that can't be solved through firepower. Basically.. your dms need to stick with a story before starting a new one but I wouldn't necessarily say they are doing anything wrong. From my experience at other tables the average campaign ends around 6-9.

[Vaern]

There are several ways to play a character to higher levels.

1) Start your game at a higher level.
Experience gains are balanced around the basic premise that a party of four players should level up every dozen encounters or so, assuming every encounter has a challenge rating equal to their effective character level. Assuming your adventure still retains the same number of encounters and they are all adjusted to match the party's new level they should gain the same number of levels. If you start the game four levels higher, for example, then your game should end four levels higher; if your games tend to end around level 8, this will cause them to instead end around level 12.
I would personally recommend starting at level 6 to encourage unique character development. Level 1 characters tend to be kind of bland and same-y, at least in my experience. Especially martial characters... just about every level 1 fighter I see is just a half-orc with power attack and weapon focus (great sword). The high low-level damage potential granted by their racial strength bonus and a gigantic weapon seems critical at the start of the game, but once they have a few bonus feats and a second attack per round under their belt these factors become a bit less significant and open them up to more diverse options.
It's not just a bonus for martial characters, of course. As a caster I have a tendency to take spells and feats as I level depending on what I happen to need at the time, which isn't conducive to building up from level 1 into a prestige class. Some people are better about it than others, but planning a character for long-term growth from character creation can be difficult. Starting out one level into a prestige class lets you begin with a clear idea of what your character is going to be doing and where you are heading in the long run.

2) Ramp up experience gains
There are a couple of ways to do this.
The first way is, of course, Rule 0. Rule 0 allows us to regard the experience table in the DMG, like everything else in the rulebooks, as merely a guideline. If you want your characters to reach a higher level throughout the game, maybe treat each encounter as though its CR is 1 higher than it actually is for the sake of calculating experience. This will make them advance through at least the first few levels significantly faster.
The second way is to fabricate "encounters." An encounter is not just a combat encounter or a trap. An encounter can be anything involving skill checks.
If the group needs to track a group of lost travelers through a forest to bring them home, consider the act of tracking them - assuming it is sufficiently difficult - to be an encounter in itself, giving them a handful of experience points for that in addition to quest completion experience rewards. If the party needs to talk their way past a belligerent guard to get through the city gates after curfew, consider that diplomacy or intimidate exchange to be an encounter and reward them for it.

3) Plan for a longer campaign
This one basically speaks for itself. The longer you make your game, the more the characters will advance in level. If you don't want to put a significant amount of planning into a single adventure, refer to #4.

4) Reuse old characters in a "sequel" campaign
Your characters are brought out of retirement after their last adventure to fight a new threat. They are still the same level they were after their previous adventure but have had a significant amount of downtime during which to spend gold on new equipment or maybe retrain some of their skills and abilities to function more smoothly for their next quest.
Like option #3, this gives the satisfaction of knowing that you've played a single character all the way from their beginning as a dirty peasant into legendary hero territory. But at the same time, if your DM allows you to retrain your abilities to amend some previous developmental mistakes, it may feel as though you're playing a fresh new character starting from a higher level, as in option #1.
Regardless of whatever changes you make to your character, you and your friends are still playing the same characters in that same world they were in before. Your party starts out already knowing one another, and the world around them is already developed to some extent from their previous adventures. The background is already well-established, and all they need now is a new call to adventure.