Cleric/Wizard in party with limited healing - How much Cleric to take?

[Remover of Obst]

I am planning on a Tempest Cleric 2/Evocation Wizard X build for an upcoming campaign. The rest of the group currently will be a control sorcerer, battlemaster PAM fighter, and a paladin.

Current plan was..
Level 1 - C1
Levels 2 to 6 - W1-5
Level 7 - C2
Level 8+ - W6-X
16-8-12-16-14-8 (using a maul, boosting INT to 20)


Only two levels of cleric doesn't offer a lot except for a few buffs and there is arcane recovery for more cure wounds. I will have full caster progression, but I was wondering if I should go to level 3 or 5 in cleric. Prayer of Healing, Lesser Restoration and Aid would be very nice.
Having a paladin will help quite a bit, but Revivify won't be available until level 9.

Any thoughts? Is more cleric needed or just very helpful?


If you do recommend more cleric, how much more and when?

[Spectrulus]

If your table allows it, why not just run a Wizard of Theurgy (Tempest)? It's an Unearthed Arcana, but it would set you up well.

[Remover of Obst]

Wizard of Theurgy (Tempest)? It's an Unearthed Arcana,


Excellent suggestion. I will have to see. Another of the players was asking about using UA material.
I'll see what the DM says.

I would have to rethink using a maul and a few character bits.
Or... dip something else level 1 to cover the gap in armor and weapon profs.
Kord covers the domains of war and storms well...
Interesting...

Double level 1 domains is a bit concerning power level wise, but not Hexblade dip powerful.

[nickl_2000]

If UA isn't an option, just run Cleric 1. The Channel Divinity isn't worth the Wizard spell progression and 1 level into Cleric give you Healing Word and Cure Wounds. That's plenty with a Paladin in the party as well.

[Corran]

Don't worry about revivify, paladins get it too.

[Christian]

Don't worry about revivify, paladins get it too.

Well, kind of depends on what level they're starting at, doesn't it? Paladins don't get access to Revivify until level 9. Characters could do a lot of dying between levels 5 and 9 ...

[nickl_2000]

Well, kind of depends on what level they're starting at, doesn't it? Paladins don't get access to Revivify until level 9. Characters could do a lot of dying between levels 5 and 9 ...

That really depends on the DM and the adventure. At my table we have yet to have anyone actually die, just some close calls.

[GreyBlack]

How many short rests will you get?

[Remover of Obst]

New DM, so not sure how many short rests we will take.

[Nagog]

Considering you're multiclassing 2 spellcasting classes together, you'll pretty much always have spell slots above the level of spells you can cast (until really late game, but whatever). Just use those to upcast the crap out of your healing spells.

[Sigreid]

IMO you're better off focusing in damage prevention than healing. The best damage prevention is the brutal crushing of your opponents.

[Remover of Obst]

IMO you're better off focusing in damage prevention than healing. The best damage prevention is the brutal crushing of your opponents.

Yep, hoping this and as was stated above - upcast the heal out of cure wounds.

Hopefully the DM will be merciful and allow us to buy a scroll of revivify.
Would still need to roll and hopefully have someone using the Help Action for me.
d20 with advantage+3+2+d4 guidance against a DC 13...

[BW022]

Any thoughts? Is more cleric needed or just very helpful?
If you do recommend more cleric, how much more and when?

Personally, I wouldn't bother past cleric/1. It gives you armor, weapon proficiencies, cantrips, and spells. Second gives you very little considering you'll be 7th-level by the time you are planning on taking it. The extra spell memorized and domain abilities will be extremely weak by then vs. what you would gain from just going more wizard -- closer to a stat boost, memorize more wizard spells, higher-level wizard spells, etc. If you are fighting CR7 creatures... no first or even second level clerical spells will make much difference. Most aren't worth the action to cast.

[Talionis]

You’ll be fine as the second healer with one level of Cleric. Your DM should adjust. Make sure you have Spare the Dying with your Familiar.

Everyone may need to pitch in the Sorcerer should take Inspiring Leader.

[Crgaston]

Knowledge Domain makes an amazing 1 level dip for a Wizard. Expertise in 2 Int skills, Command and Identify as bonus spells...

[firelistener]

Healing is overrated as a tactical necessity. Take as much or as little as you want.

[Safety Sword]

Knowledge Domain makes an amazing 1 level dip for a Wizard. Expertise in 2 Int skills, Command and Identify as bonus spells...

This is good advice. Especially with something like Divination Wizard, portent is ridiculous when you're trying to make a controller.

But since your sorcerer is going to be the controller, perhaps you need to blast? If so, Tempest Cleric/Evocation Wizard is pretty good for that. You can get away with only 2 levels of cleric to get the channel divinity and then you're basically a wizard who can heal and blow up the bad guys. Spell progression is a little behind, but sculpt spells makes your area blast spells super effective.

If I was going to go this route I would probably just take the two cleric levels first and go wizard from there.

[Thurmas]

I know the party already has a sorcerer, but unless you are absolutely set on being a Cleric/Wizard you could easily go Divine Soul or Favored Soul (UA) and get access to both cleric and sorcerer spells. While you don't have access to the full wizard list or your cleric/wizard class abilities, you get everything that sorcerer offers and most importantly, you don't lose out on your spell progression by staying single classed and you also don't have to worry about being MAD because you only have to pursue one spell casting stat. If you're that concerned with healing, you get everything you could want without having to sacrifice spell progression or ASI/Feat acquisition.

Looking at Divine Soul, you get the entirety of the sorcerer and cleric spell lists to choose from, plus a bonus spell.

If you go the Favored Soul route, requiring the use of UA, you get one domain's bonus spells. Choosing the life domain gets you access to several healing spells, revivify, plus other useful buff spells. It also gets you weapon and armor proficiency without having to multiclass.

An even more extreme alternative is to go Celestial Warlock. You again gain access to Cure Wounds and Revivify through bonus spells available to learn, plus you get an entire pool of D6 healing to use as a bonus action. All without having to multiclass.

[Sigreid]

Knowledge Domain makes an amazing 1 level dip for a Wizard. Expertise in 2 Int skills, Command and Identify as bonus spells...

Two level dip is pretty solid for channel divinity.

[Remover of Obst]

Make sure you have Spare the Dying with your Familiar.

Have you found this useful?

I would prefer to use Cure Wounds/Healing Word in combat and out of combat there is Healer's Kit or a Medicine Check if you are out of spell slots.

[Remover of Obst]

I know the party already has a sorcerer, but unless you are absolutely set on being a Cleric/Wizard you could easily go Divine Soul or Favored Soul (UA).

An even more extreme alternative is to go Celestial Warlock.

Good options, but I played a Divine Soul in the previous campaign. Also the previous DM is going to be running the Sorcerer, so I want to not tread on their toes. We will already have a paladin that may be competing as a second face person for the group.

I like the idea of the Celestial Warlock, but got turned off by only having two spells per encounter.

[Safety Sword]

Two level dip is pretty solid for channel divinity.

Honestly, if you take the two levels of Knowledge Cleric first then your wizard spells tend to lag. It can work because you can upcast a lot of your wizard spells with higher level slots, but it's a bit harder.

I guess you can always take the second level later on, but by then it might not be worth it.

[Sigreid]

Honestly, if you take the two levels of Knowledge Cleric first then your wizard spells tend to lag. It can work because you can upcast a lot of your wizard spells with higher level slots, but it's a bit harder.

I guess you can always take the second level later on, but by then it might not be worth it.

I like to have it the level after I get fabricate.

[Talionis]

Have you found this useful?

I would prefer to use Cure Wounds/Healing Word in combat and out of combat there is Healer's Kit or a Medicine Check if you are out of spell slots.

Yes. Having a can trip that didn’t cost me a spellslot was worth while. The DM was fond of many encounters per day. The opportunity cost is fairly low since you have a lot of cantrips between two primary casting classes.

[Remover of Obst]

Yes. Having a can trip that didn’t cost me a spellslot was worth while. The DM was fond of many encounters per day. The opportunity cost is fairly low since you have a lot of cantrips between two primary casting classes.

I could see a case where I would be stuck away from two people that are down. I could use Healing Word on one and use a familiar to use Spare the Dying on the other.