Theurgy Wizard in an intrigue campaign

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I've recently been given the opportunity to play a Theurgy Wizard in a homebrewed campaign that will largely be based on investigation/political intrigue. Combat will be "as often as we make it" and we've been told there will almost always be a non-combat solution or way to resolve things without rolling initiative.

I made the choice to be a kobold wizard before I knew the details of the campaign and I decided to stick with it. The world is magic heavy and magic is regulated by a central government authority that conscripts magically inclined members of the population for use in political and military activities. There are three of us in the party and we all chose magic users ('cause, why wouldn't we when magic has so many story elements attached to it?).

Anyway, our party is a Nature Cleric and an undecided Bard, though he seems to be leaning towards swords or valor. I was playing with the idea of Theurgy before we had a Cleric, but now that we do, I don't want to step on his toes. I still want to play one, since it's not a subclass too many games allow, but I'm trying to decide how to do it in a way that doesn't step on anyone's toes, but is still useful. Wizard is pretty solid on it's own, too, so I'm also trying to decide if I should just take a normal subclass and go from there.

My "optimized" options seem to be Tempest Domain, or possibly Zeal domain. These do a lot for combat, but don't help as much with intrigue. I'm also afraid that essentially getting getting the Evokers ability to maximize damage at level 2, but every short rest, would be a little unbalanced.

I was also looking at Knowledge and Forge. Knowledge 'cause of the skill potential, expertise, and mind reading. Forge 'cause of the "make what you want" channel divinity. Bards are usually the skill monkeys, but I could see knowledge being useful still.

My other option is to just go Sorc 1/Wizard 19 (for the draconic RP and con saves), or just straight Wizard. A lot oft he subclasses don't appeal too much to me, but War Wizard's on demand +4 to saving throws could be useful and Illusionists is just begging to be used in an intrigue heavy game.

Any thoughts? Should I look into a different Theurgy domain, or just go with a non-UA subclass? How best to do this without crossing the streams too much with my team?

[Nhorianscum]

Knowledge is almost obscenely good in social campains. The channel divinities and expertise are vile.

[Khrysaes]

I've recently been given the opportunity to play a Theurgy Wizard in a homebrewed campaign that will largely be based on investigation/political intrigue. Combat will be "as often as we make it" and we've been told there will almost always be a non-combat solution or way to resolve things without rolling initiative.

I made the choice to be a kobold wizard before I knew the details of the campaign and I decided to stick with it. The world is magic heavy and magic is regulated by a central government authority that conscripts magically inclined members of the population for use in political and military activities. There are three of us in the party and we all chose magic users ('cause, why wouldn't we when magic has so many story elements attached to it?).

Anyway, our party is a Nature Cleric and an undecided Bard, though he seems to be leaning towards swords or valor. I was playing with the idea of Theurgy before we had a Cleric, but now that we do, I don't want to step on his toes. I still want to play one, since it's not a subclass too many games allow, but I'm trying to decide how to do it in a way that doesn't step on anyone's toes, but is still useful. Wizard is pretty solid on it's own, too, so I'm also trying to decide if I should just take a normal subclass and go from there.

My "optimized" options seem to be Tempest Domain, or possibly Zeal domain. These do a lot for combat, but don't help as much with intrigue. I'm also afraid that essentially getting getting the Evokers ability to maximize damage at level 2, but every short rest, would be a little unbalanced.

I was also looking at Knowledge and Forge. Knowledge 'cause of the skill potential, expertise, and mind reading. Forge 'cause of the "make what you want" channel divinity. Bards are usually the skill monkeys, but I could see knowledge being useful still.

My other option is to just go Sorc 1/Wizard 19 (for the draconic RP and con saves), or just straight Wizard. A lot oft he subclasses don't appeal too much to me, but War Wizard's on demand +4 to saving throws could be useful and Illusionists is just begging to be used in an intrigue heavy game.

Any thoughts? Should I look into a different Theurgy domain, or just go with a non-UA subclass? How best to do this without crossing the streams too much with my team?

Well, if you want something thematic to the intrigue campaign, trickery domain theurge cleric calls out to me as does illusionist wizard.

You could multiclass rogue and go arcane trickster, inquisitor, or mastermind, have some good intrigue options, AT meshes well with wizard.

For a more intrigue focus, the Actor, and Warlock, GOO, Fey, and Hexblade call out to me But mainly for the disguise self at will when coupled with the Actor feat.


My best advice would be to build your character not based on mechanics, but on concept, and either perscribe to the fluff given to you or find mechanics to fit your own fluff. You are a Kobold wizard.
Are you a kobold wizard because of the wizard's stereotypical curiosity and study of the arcane? Find something that fits that. Or did you come up with a concept and the mechanical aspects of the wizard best fit the concept? I.E. I want to be a celtic tuatha de danan themed character, I like Caladbolg the sword from myths. Okay I am playing a hexblade. No relation to the raven queen or shadow fell like in the subclass description, but the mechanics fit the concept. My eldritch blasts are now rainbow beams that come out as I swing my sword.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

You could multiclass rogue and go arcane trickster, inquisitor, or mastermind, have some good intrigue options, AT meshes well with wizard.

...

My best advice would be to build your character not based on mechanics, but on concept, and either perscribe to the fluff given to you or find mechanics to fit your own fluff. You are a Kobold wizard.
Are you a kobold wizard because of the wizard's stereotypical curiosity and study of the arcane? Find something that fits that.

I'm trying to avoid multiclassing if I go Theurgy Wizard, simply 'cause UA isn't well balanced for that and I don't want to take too much advantage of that. If I go Illusionist or a standard subclass, I was looking into a level in rogue, or a level in draconic sorcerer.

The concept is essentially a kobold that's under the delusion he's a dragon, so he's studying the arcane to figure out how to get his true form back. He tricked a wizard (or was tricked by a wizard) into thinking he was his familiar and has been trying to figure out spellcasting ever since. His spells are going to be dragon like in nature, but dragons have a lot of social and sneaky spells as well, so that should work out. Endgame is to get True Polymorphing or Wish.

Tiamat and Bahamut are worshiped in our setting, but neither one is a true deity. They're just dragons so ancient and powerful they can grant power to their worshippers. Hence why I wanted to go with Theurgy, as it seemed a good way to idolize the big dragons without necessary being a cleric.

[Khrysaes]

I'm trying to avoid multiclassing if I go Theurgy Wizard, simply 'cause UA isn't well balanced for that and I don't want to take too much advantage of that. If I go Illusionist or a standard subclass, I was looking into a level in rogue, or a level in draconic sorcerer.

The concept is essentially a kobold that's under the delusion he's a dragon, so he's studying the arcane to figure out how to get his true form back. He tricked a wizard (or was tricked by a wizard) into thinking he was his familiar and has been trying to figure out spellcasting ever since. His spells are going to be dragon like in nature, but dragons have a lot of social and sneaky spells as well, so that should work out. Endgame is to get True Polymorphing or Wish.

Tiamat and Bahamut are worshiped in our setting, but neither one is a true deity. They're just dragons so ancient and powerful they can grant power to their worshippers. Hence why I wanted to go with Theurgy, as it seemed a good way to idolize the big dragons without necessary being a cleric.

Ahh theurgy makes the most sense conceptually then. I would argue that maybe Transmutation would make more sense than illusion if he is trying to transform himself. However, as you mentioned some dragons are sneaky illusionists, but in this case I think trickster theurgy makes sense too. I would suggest either pick a dragon in which to derive your mechanics from or derive your mechanics based on your characters goals, which is to return to dragon form.

Arcane cleric would make sense too, but as you mentioned you already have a cleric.

[Ventruenox]

As you are already using some UA material, how would the Ambition Domain from Planeshift: Amonket (https://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/magic/plane-shift_amonkhet.pdf) work for your character concept? It is essentially the Trickery Cleric with the Light Cleric's Warding Flare ability and a few different spells. Bane is of particular note to assist the Cleric and Bard's spells. Thematically, you keep all the sneakiness of the Kobold (and do it remotely with an illusion), but have the steadfast belief that you are something more.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

As you are already using some UA material, how would the Ambition Domain from Planeshift: Amonket (https://media.wizards.com/2017/downloads/magic/plane-shift_amonkhet.pdf) work for your character concept?

I actually did look into that briefly. I had a few cool ideas of things I could do with it. The problem I'm running into is that I'm going to try to stay away from a lot of the cleric spell list, or grab things that our nature cleric decides to not prepare regularly, so that I'm not harshing his mellow by doing his job as well as mine. Because of that, I'm primarily trying to decide based off the merits of the subclass abilities they gain at level 1, 6, and 17. I like the idea of the duplicate, but the concentration requirement is gonna start to hurt very quickly. Since I'm a kobold, my INT is gonna be 14 or 15 to start, so I'll likely be using the +2 save DC channel arcana during battle, so the other uses would be relegated to out of combat use. It's the reason Forge and Knowledge appealed to me.

I feel like I'm talking myself into Knowledge Theurgy, so I might just go with that. Transmutation Wizard also sounds thematically appropriate, now that it's been pointed out. Might just have a conversation with our cleric to see how he feels about it.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Thanks for the advice everyone! We started last night and I ended up going Knowledge Domain Theurgy. I did have a discussion with both the DM and our Cleric and they're fine with. Regardless, I made it part of the story that he channels all the extra abilities and spells through a special tome that's separate from his wizard spellbook. I told the DM if it ever felt like I was stepping on his toes or it became overpowered in some way, to just contrive a reason for that tome to get lost, confiscated, or destroyed and I'd swap my abilities over to Transmutation Wizard.