Why is robe of Archmage a legendary item?

[Throne12]

It give you 3 things.
1.If you aren't wearing armor, your base Armor Class is 15 + your Dexterity modifier.

2.You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

3.Your spell save DC and spell attack bonus each increase by 2.

These effects are nice but it's not legendary good. You can get all these effects way early just playing a gnome wizard with a war wand +2.

[Shabbazar]

I completely agree. Seems overly nerfed from some past edition where it was much better. I can't say I have much to add beyond your analysis.

[AttilatheYeon]

It's one of the few was to increase spell save dc. Wand of war mage doesn't do that.

[ad_hoc]

While more powerful items of a similar sort increase in rarity (+1/+2/+3), the rarity system is not directly related to power.

Robe of the Archmage is a legendary item because it is legendary.

Sometimes things are just more rare even though they aren't more powerful.

[Protolisk]

A manual of Clear Thought is a Very Rare item, and it increases your Int by 2. So the Mod by 1. It also requires a time investment to gain the bonus. It can also only be used once for 100 years, so only one person could possibly gain bonuses from it. It also is only for Int casters (wizards). There is a separate tome for Cha.

+3 armor is legendary. So a +3 studded armor is legendary.

Robe of the Arch Magi is legendary, as it literally doubles the general bonus of what the Tomes provide, an effective 2 to both attacks and spell save DC. There isn't an actual increase to the base ability score, so abilities that key directly off the Int/Cha mod are not affected, which is the one thing the Tomes have over it. It ALSO affects all saves against any magical effect. This means more than just spells. And it also throws in a free permanent +3 studded leather armor, and you don't even need proficiency for it. Or effectively replaces Mage Armor as a spell and gives +2 AC on top of that. You could also technically share it, as you could just hand it to another person (with same alignment) and they can use it too, once they break your attunement and attunes themselves.

Very powerful defense against spellcasters. Very powerful defense against martials. Very powerful offense against all possible targets

So, nearly twice as powerful as a Very rare item, and more bonuses over another legendary item. Only one category above Very Rare. Legendary seems fair. You could say the Tomes aren't worth their rarity either, nor the +3 armor, but this comparison fits.

[Kane0]

Seconding ad_hoc, rarity is only loosely related to power at best. For example, Broom of Flying is uncommon, wings of Flying are rare, flying carpet and potion of flying are very rare.

That said, raising spell attack and DC by 2 is no small potatoes, nor is advantage on all saves vs spells and magic for that matter. The Mastery Ioun Stone is also a legendary item granting +1 proficiency bonus and nothing else, and a mantle of spell resistance is rare while granting advantage only against spells.

[dragoeniex]

Dramatic DC increase, AC boost applicable to wizards and the like with no armor proficiencies, bonus to spell attack. These are substantial boosts combining for only one attunement slot.

On top of that? This gives you advantage on ALL magical effect saves- not just spells. Examples of what does NOT do that: oath of ancients paladin's aura, mantle of spell resistance, abjuration wizard's capstone spell resistance...

[Contrast]

These effects are nice but it's not legendary good.

Honestly any of the effects are worth the attunement slot. Doing all three is insanely good. If all it did was increase your spell save DC it would still be among the best items for any spellcaster capable of attuning to it.

[sithlordnergal]

Personally, I'd put it as a Very Rare item. I'd consider it on par with a Staff of Power, since its similar to the staff, especially now that there's a race that will give you the same magical resistance as the robes, with poison immunity to boot.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Lets break down what the Robe does.

• If you aren't wearing armor, your base Armor Class is 15 + your Dexterity modifier.

This is equivalent to +3 Studded Leather, and is an easy +2 AC improvement over casting mage armor, On its own that's a rare ability.

• You have advantage on Saving Throws against spell and other magical Effects.
Mantle of Spell Resistance right there another rare item.

• Your spell save DC and spell Attack bonus each increase by 2.
+2 to save DC's and spell attack rolls. That's two tomes of clear thought.






Seconding ad_hoc, rarity is only loosely related to power at best. For example, Broom of Flying is uncommon, wings of Flying are rare, flying carpet and potion of flying are very rare.
The broom requires you ride it, you can be knocked off it, something can snatch it away and its very likely going to occupy the use of one hand. The wings are worn and let you use both hands freely at all times. The Carpet can let multiple PC's fly at once and the potion should probably be uncommon but disposable items tend to be cheaper even if they're rarer.

[Whit]

How many items were created if they are a legendary items

I’m sure it’s not found in every dollar store.

So, would Legendary items be unique as in 1
Or 5, 20, 50 in the world?

I did like Nerdarchy who stated for example, there is 1 staff of power ( very rare) for each of the wizard schools and one staff of the magi created by all.
Yet 1 would make it unique and would that qualify as legendary or artifact.
I think a lesser artifact could be listed as a legendary item, but then again perhaps the strongest wizard, warlock, and Sorcerer got together and made 3, one for each of them and the very Rare staff of power would fit 8 schools of magic.

So would the robe of the arch Mage be 1 or 3 in the world.

[Throne12]

I can see what yall are talking about. But my DM was giving out magic items for a lv11 one shot. I'm playing a artillerist artificer and I just felt it not a good fit for my artificer. Idk maybe I just got a problem with it just not flashy.

[Kane0]

Maybe try an Apparatus of Kwalish or Cubic Gate?

[MaxWilson]

I can see what yall are talking about. But my DM was giving out magic items for a lv11 one shot. I'm playing a artillerist artificer and I just felt it not a good fit for my artificer. Idk maybe I just got a problem with it just not flashy.

You're not wrong. An Artificer gets a lot less mileage out of the robe than a wizard would, since wizards have more offensive spells and fewer armor proficiencies.

Not every legendary item is equally good for all PCs. A wizard doesn't really have much use for a Vorpal Greatsword but a GWM Fighter would love one.

[RickAllison]

That being said, an Artillerist can still appreciate your flamethrowers, your Fireballs, and other effects being stickier. It is absolutely worth being a legendary item, even for an Artificer, it just might not be the best item.

[JackPhoenix]

I can see what yall are talking about. But my DM was giving out magic items for a lv11 one shot. I'm playing a artillerist artificer and I just felt it not a good fit for my artificer. Idk maybe I just got a problem with it just not flashy.

It's all right. Artificer can't attune to it anyway.

[Arkhios]

These effects are nice but it's not legendary good. You can get all these effects way early just playing a gnome wizard with a war wand +2.

Oh, right! We should've remembered that all wizards are gnomes (period) and they all have at least a +2 wand of the war mage! And, somehow gnome wizards gain an unarmored AC 15 + dexterity on top of that!
Just in case it wasn't clear, that was sarcasm, not an insult.

Really, don't get too hung up on the name of the category (Legendary). Robe of the Archmage has pretty much always been a high-end magic item. Being categorized as legendary isn't the whole story about it.

[Zazamori]

As already stated, it's equivalent in AC to the best +3 light armor you can get. I would have to double check to be sure, but I feel most (maybe all) +3 armors are already legendary just from that alone. So with a RotAM you're getting all that & a bag of chips without requiring armor proficiency. In that context it would easily be well past legendary.

Advantage to save vs all magical effects seems to me like it alone should also justify legendary. In my (admittedly limit) experience, magical stuff must account for around half the saves rolled by parties & myself.

+2 spell attack/dc is at least a rare effect if Rod of the Pact Keeper is any indication, but since it's more useful for a wizard, I would say on an item wizards can use it's at least very rare from that alone. There's also no reason it can't stack with both the Wand of the War Mage & Staff of the Magi at the same time.

Combine all that together & you've got what, in my humble opinion, must be an overpowered item compared to most other legendaries, or at least that's how I've been viewing it.

[Cybren]

Why is it legendary? Easy, because
1.If you aren't wearing armor, your base Armor Class is 15 + your Dexterity modifier.

2.You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.

3.Your spell save DC and spell attack bonus each increase by 2.

[darknite]

That +2 to DC is very key to Wizards. Getting a DC 23 spell means a good percentage of your spells are slamming even legendary creatures.

[Tharkun]

The Robe of the Archmagi is amazing for a wizard. It helps >>defense, >utility, >>>offense.

Given a staff of the archmagi, staff of power, and tome of the stilled tongue, if I found a usable Robe of the Archmagi the only question is which staff I would drop.

Especially since high level wizards care most about spell save DC when considering offense.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I'm a bit shocked there are wizard players that don't think this is amazing. +2 to spell save DC's alone is huge, and combining the potential equivalent of +2 plate armor (20 AC if you cap your Dex!) with advantage against the absolute most dangerous stuff at high levels (spells and magical effects) makes this the only robe any high level wizard should ever want.

Heck, I try to get my hands on them even as an eldritch knight or sorcadin. Point out another piece of armor superior to it for any arcane caster. Seriously, give it a try.

[darknite]

My 20th Level Wiz has a Staff of the Magi, Robe of the Archmagi and a Rod of Resurrection (well, 19th level Wiz, 1st level Cleric of Mystra...:smallsmile:). He's pretty much set for attunement now.

[Tharkun]

Waterdeep Merch has a good point. I know that thief rogues love the robes and will sell the soul of their nearest party member for one.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm a bit shocked there are wizard players that don't think this is amazing. +2 to spell save DC's alone is huge, and combining the potential equivalent of +2 plate armor (20 AC if you cap your Dex!) with advantage against the absolute most dangerous stuff at high levels (spells and magical effects) makes this the only robe any high level wizard should ever want. My brain just did a little thing.
The robe isn't armor.
Can you cast the spell "mage armor" while wearing that robe and add that +3 as well, or does the "AC 15" with the robe substitute for "AC 13 with mage armor" due to the "you only get to calculate AC using one thing" deal?

[diplomancer]

My brain just did a little thing.
The robe isn't armor.
Can you cast the spell "mage armor" while wearing that robe and add that +3 as well, or does the "AC 15" with the robe substitute for "AC 13 with mage armor" due to the "you only get to calculate AC using one thing" deal?

Second choice. Mage Armor does not "add 3 to your AC if you are not wearing armor", it sets your AC at 13+Dex.

You can combine it with bracers of defense, I think.

Edit: or, I just realized, with a +3 shield!

[Lord Vukodlak]

My brain just did a little thing.
The robe isn't armor.
Can you cast the spell "mage armor" while wearing that robe and add that +3 as well, or does the "AC 15" with the robe substitute for "AC 13 with mage armor" due to the "you only get to calculate AC using one thing" deal?
No one is ac 13+Dex another is 15+Dex both stack with bracers of defense however.



These effects are nice but it's not legendary good. You can get all these effects way early just playing a gnome wizard with a war wand +2.
Wand is the War mage doesn’t effect DCs

[Rukelnikov]

My brain just did a little thing.
The robe isn't armor.
Can you cast the spell "mage armor" while wearing that robe and add that +3 as well, or does the "AC 15" with the robe substitute for "AC 13 with mage armor" due to the "you only get to calculate AC using one thing" deal?

Both MA and AotAM are AC calculations, you choose which one you use. In this case 15 + Dex will always be better than 13 + Dex, so they don't work together.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Btw, My Sorlock had one of these and they are great, most comments here are not talking about the +2 Spell attack, which for Ago Blast spamming Sorlock like him was a pretty good boost too.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Second choice. Mage Armor does not "add 3 to your AC if you are not wearing armor", it sets your AC at 13+Dex.

You can combine it with bracers of defense, I think.

Edit: or, I just realized, with a +3 shield!
It might be worth a feat/multiclass for an AT that knows they can get their hands on these robes and that shield (25 AC). Since your average AT fights with BB and GFB anyway, this is one of the most powerful loadouts they're even capable of. Match a good high damage rapier (flametongue, perhaps?) and your third attunement slot can be whatever utility item you want (staff of the magi, maybe?).

For an EK/Sorcadin that went high Strength low-ish Dex, nothing's stopping you from wearing +3 armor under it. The 15+Dex might be a wash, but the +2 DC's and spell resistance is still extremely potent. The former lets your lower overall spell levels and MAD compete with a pure caster while the latter protects you against some of your most dangerous foes. It's a fantastic reason to reach Paladin 6 for a Sorcadin, since you're basically immune to magic at that point.

[Christew]

Really, don't get too hung up on the name of the category (Legendary). Robe of the Archmage has pretty much always been a high-end magic item. Being categorized as legendary isn't the whole story about it.

This. D&D has been around long enough to end up beholden to it's own lore. Looking at pure math and trying to deduce what the "value" of a legendary item should be is as fruitless as trying to deduce what the "proper" damage for a third level spell should be. There are just certain truisms built into the game that defy the math because they are cultural artifacts.

- Fireball is a third level spell
- The Robe of the Archmage is legendary
- Magic Missile does not require an attack roll

Why? Because D&D.

[alchahest]

another thing to consider - even if all these effects were individually replicated by different items, this single item that does them all only takes one attunement slot. so you can still add in wand of the warmage and bracers of armor if you want.

[Zazamori]

For an EK/Sorcadin that went high Strength low-ish Dex, nothing's stopping you from wearing +3 armor under it.

Reading this caused me to consider that the +3 bonus on magic armors is technically not part of the your AC is set to X portion, it is more akin to the stacking +AC of shields/bracers of defense, correct?? It very well may not be RAI, but is there any reason per RAW that you couldn't benefit from the RotAM property of AC set to 15+dex & then also add +3 from wearing magic armor under it (also a long with a shield/bracers)?? If so, that should also work for Natural Armor.

Edit: Nevermind, realized the "aren't wearing armor" restriction on the robe.

[ProsecutorGodot]

How many items were created if they are a legendary items

I’m sure it’s not found in every dollar store.

So, would Legendary items be unique as in 1
Or 5, 20, 50 in the world?

I did like Nerdarchy who stated for example, there is 1 staff of power ( very rare) for each of the wizard schools and one staff of the magi created by all.
Yet 1 would make it unique and would that qualify as legendary or artifact.
I think a lesser artifact could be listed as a legendary item, but then again perhaps the strongest wizard, warlock, and Sorcerer got together and made 3, one for each of them and the very Rare staff of power would fit 8 schools of magic.

So would the robe of the arch Mage be 1 or 3 in the world.

So in Forgotten Realms there are at least 2 documented. I would be hesitant to say that there would be any more than 5 as the only currently known sets are worn by two of the most powerful spellcasters in the realm Laeral Silverhand and Manshoon. We also know of other powerful spellcasters who don't own a set like Halaster Blackcloak and Vajra Safahr. Then there are other known spellcasters of renown like Elminster and court wizards from other cities like Neverwinter or Baldur's Gate who we don't have stats for.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Reading this caused me to consider that the +3 bonus on magic armors is technically not part of the your AC is set to X portion, it is more akin to the stacking +AC of shields/bracers of defense, correct?? It very well may not be RAI, but is there any reason per RAW that you couldn't benefit from the RotAM property of AC set to 15+dex & then also add +3 from wearing magic armor under it (also a long with a shield/bracers)?? If so, that should also work for Natural Armor.

Edit: Nevermind, realized the "aren't wearing armor" restriction on the robe.

All that said, even if you left Dex at a 10, 15 armor is actually rather good when paired with a high defense shield for a 'stealth' suit. You can still manage a 20 late-game with a +3 shield, 21 if you went Defensive (which is a popular choice for both EK's and Sorcadins thanks to their innate access to fantastic defensive tricks like shield, mirror image, and blur).

If you have a Dex of 14+, it's close to a no-brainer. A 17 AC might be less than non-magical plate, but you also don't have to worry about buying/finding magical plate and you're suddenly capable of good stealth, provided you get proficiency from somewhere. If you can somehow guarantee the availability of these robes in your game, it might be worth taking Stealth and a respectable Dex early just because of how good this can work in concert, even on a Strength build.

[Kadzar]

It might be worth a feat/multiclass for an AT that knows they can get their hands on these robes and that shield (25 AC). Since your average AT fights with BB and GFB anyway, this is one of the most powerful loadouts they're even capable of. Match a good high damage rapier (flametongue, perhaps?) and your third attunement slot can be whatever utility item you want (staff of the magi, maybe?).

Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade won't work with this since the robe boosts spell attacks and BB and GFB don't use spell attacks.

[JackPhoenix]

All that said, even if you left Dex at a 10, 15 armor is actually rather good when paired with a high defense shield for a 'stealth' suit. You can still manage a 20 late-game with a +3 shield, 21 if you went Defensive (which is a popular choice for both EK's and Sorcadins thanks to their innate access to fantastic defensive tricks like shield, mirror image, and blur).

Defensive FS requires you to wear armor to get its AC bonus. Robe of Archmage requires you not to wear armor to use its AC. Those options are mutualy exclusive.

[Esprit15]

For everyone mentioning Gnomes, their bonus only applies to mental saves. This applies to all of them.