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SandDemon
2007-10-14, 11:36 PM
Wow, I somehow reposted this from almost a week ago..and can't figure out how to delete it from my blackberry (no delete button showing). Someone delete this? If not I can in a few hours at home.

Solo
2007-10-14, 11:39 PM
I'd go full cleric and skip the PrC, but that's probably not what you wanted to hear.

SandDemon
2007-10-14, 11:49 PM
I'd go full cleric and skip the PrC, but that's probably not what you wanted to hear.

I know it isn't completly optimized, but is there something really wrong with the PrC?

Zincorium
2007-10-14, 11:57 PM
It only has half casting, that's a big downside.

What warpriest should be used as is a paladin PrC. Half casting is not a big sacrifice for a paladin, and the high level buffs and healing wouldn't be accessible normally.

Nebo_
2007-10-15, 12:01 AM
Everything it is supposed to be good at, a normal Cleric can do better.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-15, 12:28 AM
I know it isn't completly optimized, but is there something really wrong with the PrC?

Yes. Half casting. Think about what level 9, 8, 7 spells can do--level 8 is Quickened Divine Power, for example. Level 9 is Miracle, which can, oh... emulate Giant Size (Wu Jen 7, CArcane, look it up) or Bite of the Werebear.
The PrC would have to give one hell of a lot more than it does. Even if you never get high enough level to cast those spells, you'll always be a bunch of spell levels behind, which is bad.

The best thing you could do, in the long run, is not have taken those Fighter levels, but you'll survive with them.
Your feat selection isn't *that* bad, but is a little lacking. Is it an existing character? If so, will the DM let you swap some feats out (if the game just started, say)?

What books can you use?

SandDemon
2007-10-15, 12:38 AM
It is an existing character, but the DM might let me make changes. Any book really as long as it's not a complete power-gaming choice and fits the character. As the group healer but still needing to sit infront and fight, what are some good PrC options? Some good feats?

Looking for some broad help here, I usually play a fighter or rogue. I just liked the idea of a priest wading into fights as a holy general type.

AslanCross
2007-10-15, 01:13 AM
A Warpriest can still get up to Level 9 spells if you only take 4 levels in it. You get 4 attacks per round and still get Lv 9 spells. This is assuming you're taking 16 levels of cleric. Since you've gotten some Fighter levels already, you probably won't be able to reach Lv 9. Seriously, though, there's nothing wrong with that. I like the flavor of the Warpriest, and optimization isn't a necessity unless your DM's really evil. Clericzilla is uber enough to begin with, so I don't think it'll hurt you. Your party should be aware that you aren't going to get Lv 9 stuff, though.

RTGoodman
2007-10-15, 01:53 AM
Here are some feats (since I don't think anyone else has listed any):

Reach Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Reach_Spell,all) is a metamagic feat that lets you turn Touch-range spells into ray spells with a range of 30 feet (for a +2 increase in spell level, though). It might be worth it, though, if you need to heal someone at a distance and can't get to them in time. I think Magic Item Compendium has one of those metamagic rod things for Reach Spell, and that might actually be a better choice.

Touch of Healing (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Touch_Of_Healing,CC) ("Complete Champion") is a Reserve feat that lets you use a standard action as many times a day as you want to heal damage equal to 3 x the level of the highest level Conjuration (Healing) spell you still have available for the day. For instance, if you still have a Cure Critical Wounds (a 4th level spell) left to cast, you can heal 12 points of damage as a standard action as often as you want. The problem is that it only lets you heal someone up to 1/2 their full normal hit points. Of course, it also gives you a +1 CL for Conjuration (Healing) spells, so you'll be healing an extra point of damage for each spell that you cast as normal.

Augment Healing (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Augment_Healing,CD) ("Complete Divine") adds +2 points per spell level to the amount of damage healed by any Conjuration (Healing) spell that you cast. That's pretty decent, especially since the pre-requisite is super-easy for clerics to get.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-15, 02:34 AM
You're a group healer, who also needs to fight to protect the party.

Well, those fighter levels really hurt your healing. Consider--at level 3, for example, Cure Moderate Wounds might actually do something in combat, i.e. keep someone from going unconscious or dying. But you can only cast Cure Light Wounds at level 4; that means healing in combat is almost totally pointless for you.
You definitely want to minimize your non-cleric levels. If you can, going Fighter 1/Cleric 3 at least would be a good idea.

Ideally, you'd be using the War domain with a certain deity to get Guisarme proficiency, or saying the guisarme is the favored weapon of a cause you worship. That probably changes fluff, though.

Here's things to keep in mind:
-You want to keep as many caster levels as possible. They will help you be better at everything than you would be without them.
-Damage mitigation is as important as healing. Every point of damage the party doesn't take is a point you don't have to heal, and if they're not taking damage they're not going to fall back, go unconscious, etc.
--Battlefield Control is a typical method of damage mitigation. Battlefield control is typically done through getting a lot of reach, plus tripping, the Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) feat, or both.
-In-combat healing is often not a great idea.

Here's what I'd recommend:

-Crusader (Tome of Battle) 1/Cleric 3: your best option. You get martial weapon proficiencies, you get the Iron Guard's Glare stance (anyone you're threatening gets -4 AB when they attack someone other than you--they're aware of this effect) and Strikes that will be useful until you start getting useful iterative attacks, including one that heals some.
For feats, you will want Combat Reflexes and Stand Still, taking Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at 6 and 9 and then Quicken Spell at 12. Human would be better, but this still works. After that, you can take Martial Study a couple of times, for things like White Raven Tactics.
The Strength domain gives you Enlarge Person: take advantage of that. See if you can buy divine scrolls of it from your temple; it should be possible. If not, CL 1 potions should cost 50 gp apiece, and will be great in tough fights.

Ideally, you could go into the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class with a different flavor, but if that doesn't fly, continuing as a straight Cleric works. You could also look up the Knight of the Raven prestige class in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft--full BAB, 9/10 casting.

If you want to stick with Fighter, settle for Fighter 1/Cleric 3. Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip. Same principle--Enlarge Person for extra reach, and keep people prone and stop them from getting to your friends. This is the sort of tactical combat a leader should be doing anyway. Pick up Stand Still later.

If you can't change your levels but can change your feats, add Stand Still to the list of feats above.

If you can't change your levels or feats... well, don't lose any more caster levels.


Either way, do buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, or a Wand of Lesser Vigor (Spell Compendium) if you can, to do out-of-combat healing with.
Foundation of Stone is a good low-level Spell Compendium buff, giving multiple people an AC bonus.

AslanCross
2007-10-15, 05:26 AM
Here are some feats (since I don't think anyone else has listed any):

Touch of Healing (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Touch_Of_Healing,CC) ("Complete Champion") is a Reserve feat that lets you use a standard action as many times a day as you want to heal damage equal to 3 x the level of the highest level Conjuration (Healing) spell you still have available for the day. For instance, if you still have a Cure Critical Wounds (a 4th level spell) left to cast, you can heal 12 points of damage as a standard action as often as you want. The problem is that it only lets you heal someone up to 1/2 their full normal hit points. Of course, it also gives you a +1 CL for Conjuration (Healing) spells, so you'll be healing an extra point of damage for each spell that you cast as normal.




Agreed. Touch of healing is a very good feat if you want to be a healer. My cleric player has saved a lot of lives this way.

SandDemon
2007-10-15, 10:47 AM
Hmm, there any other PrC or Priest feats options? Some of those will work well, but still looking for more....surprised there really isn't any great priest (divine) feats.

RTGoodman
2007-10-15, 11:41 AM
Agreed. Touch of healing is a very good feat if you want to be a healer. My cleric player has saved a lot of lives this way.

Yeah, I've just built a Cleric going for Radiant Servant of Pelor for a Living Greyhawk campaign, and as soon as I can get Touch of Healing, I'm going for it (since I'm pretty sure it's allowed in LG). The others are definitely worth it, if you'd like to be a heal-bot (though I'm sure people are going to try to turn this into another Czilla build).

As far as PrCs go, the best ones are gonna be the ones that give you full casting (or close to it; say, 9/10) and, hopefully, a full BAB. If not, just go for the casting, since you'll already have a slightly-higher BAB from those couple of Fighter levels, but a loss of 2 caster levels. Radiant Servant of Pelor (if you can get your DM to allow RSs for other deities) is good for a heal-bot, with full casting an a slew of heal-focused abilities.

For more melee-focused Clerics, the usual advice is just to go straight Cleric and use a lot of self-buffs (Divine Power, Righteous Might, and things like that) to be an awesome warrior.

By the way, what are your Domains? I know that War and/or Strength would be pretty good for this build (making you better at fighting, giving you better weapons, and a bunch of useful combat buffs). Also, Healing gives you +1 CL for Healing spells, so that's an extra point of damage healed with each spells you cast.

Anyway, some other feat to look at:

Divine Metamagic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Divine_Metamagic,all) is, of course, cheese-riddled, but if you don't take it for some ridiculous metamagic feat (i.e., Persistent Spell) then it should be fine. It could be a good way to Extend some buffs, Empower and/or Maximize Heal spells, or something like that, all by just spending those Turn attempts.

Divine Justice (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Divine_Justice,all) is pretty cool, but it doesn't seem mechanically very good. Basically, you spend a turn attempt and pick one enemy; if he hits you for damage, and then you hit him afterward, you either deal your normal damage OR the amount he did to you, whichever is greater.

Oh, here's a pretty good one, and it seems to be exactly what you wanted - Divine Ward (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Divine_Ward,all). It let's you spend 10 minutes per day per person you want to affect, and during that day touch spells that you use to target them instead have a Short range (25 feet + 5'/2 levels). So that's actually even better than Reach Spell, except that you have to spend a turn attempt every time you use one of your Touch spells at range with it.

Oh, and check out Extra Turning. That should let you power more of these Divine feats if you choose any of them. Or, for super-cheese, ask your DM if you can buy a Nightstick (from Libris Mortis).

[By the way, if you haven't noticed, RealmsHelp (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/index.shtml) is your friend. It's got info on basically everything, even in your not playing in Forgotten Realms.]

SandDemon
2007-10-15, 02:01 PM
What about other PrC's besides Warpriest that give full casting? I've talked to the DM and feats and going fighter 1/cleric 3 is alright....

Shas aia Toriia
2007-10-15, 05:08 PM
Well, even though this is the most clericzilla thing there is, you'll want to cast lots of Divine Power, Rightous Might, etc. . .

SandDemon
2007-10-15, 05:27 PM
What are all my options for PrCs that have a high amount of +divine casting levels? Looks like the Radiant Servant and maybe Contemplative are my only options at the moment.....although I could be missing something.

Reel On, Love
2007-10-15, 05:31 PM
What are all my options for PrCs that have a high amount of +divine casting levels? Looks like the Radiant Servant and maybe Contemplative are my only options at the moment.....although I could be missing something.

Church Inquisitor (Comp Divine) is basically a Cleric Plus, but has fluff requirements.

Fist of Raziel (Book of Exalted Deeds) requires you to take Power Attack (you should be doing it anyway) and spend a feat on Knight of the Stars, but is full BAB, 9/10 casting, and gains a bunch of potent smiting abilities.

I've mentioned Knight of the Raven.

Dipping Contemplative for a level or two is OK, and you could take more if you find yourself having enough Divine Power spells for every fight at those levels.

There's also just, y'know, taking straight Cleric. It's a powerful enough class without adding PrC abilities.

SandDemon
2007-10-18, 07:09 PM
It is an existing character, but the DM might let me make changes. Any book really as long as it's not a complete power-gaming choice and fits the character. As the group healer but still needing to sit infront and fight, what are some good PrC options? Some good feats?

Looking for some broad help here, I usually play a fighter or rogue. I just liked the idea of a priest wading into fights as a holy general type.

VerdugoExplode
2007-10-18, 10:02 PM
Ordained champion from complete champion

Easy to get into, I think, I haven't looked back at it in a while
Full BAB progression
3/5 Caster progression
Only 5 levels
A decent handful of very nifty beatdown oriented abilities, including but not limited to, the always enjoyable channel spell ability. Nothin' says lovin' like inflictin' some blindness with a weapon.

You may not get all the casting you want but you get a lot of nice bonuses in exchange.