Party of one

[Anthrowhale]

It seems you can make a 5-way theurge Cleric/Fighter/Paladin/Rogue/Bard in 3.5.


Due to MAD, significant tradeoffs are required, particularly if starting at level 1. A reasonable 32 point buy is:

Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 14

All ability advancement go into Wisdom.

When starting at later levels, Strength and Dexterity can be dumped in favor of Charisma, Intelligence, or Wisdom.



Cleric is the primary class---I don't believe an alternative is possible. The exact sequence of classes is:

Rogue 1/Champion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#cleric) Cloistered (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) Cleric [Spell, Fate, Knowledge] 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Cleric 2/Sneak attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) 1/Cleric 2/Bard 1/Cleric 5

Cloistered Cleric 1 is in some ways more survivable at level 1 than Rogue 1 so you could use that instead at the cost of skill points.

There is some freedom in the order and timing of dips. For example, you could pick up bardic music before sneak attack.

It's reasonable to drop Champion Cleric since Aura of Courage + Smite Evil are generally worth less than Turn Undead, but we'll keep it just to cover all classes.



Human: Able Learner //1 skill point for cross-class skills + rogue 1 = all good skills are class skills.
1. Wild Cohort (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
1. Sneak attack+1d6
1. Trapfinding
2. Knowledge Devotion //bonus to hit/damage tides us over as a fighter.
2. Fate domain -> Uncanny Dodge
2. Spontaneous Spell domain //Spontaneous so you can use anyspell multiple times/day.
2. Lore
2. Smite Evil 1/day
3. Extend Spell
4. Aura of Courage
6. Persistent Spell
6. Smite Evil 2/day
9. Turn Undead.
9. Divine Metamagic[Persistent Spell] //Full BAB
11. Smite Evil 3/day
12. SA Fighter Sneak Attack +1d6
12. Sacred Outlaw (Dragon #357) Sneak Attack +4d6
13. Sneak Attack+1d6
15. Bardic Music, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Courage+1
15. Divine Inspiration (Dragon #333) Inspire Courage+2, Song of Freedom, Inspire Greatness, Suggestion, Inspire Competence
16. Sneak Attack+1d6
16. Inspire Courage+3
17. Inspire Heroics
18. Alternate Source Spell (Dragon #325) //DMM Persist Ruin Delver's Fortune for Saves+Cha, Evasion
18. Sneak Attack+1d6
18. Smite Evil 4/day
20. Sneak Attack+1d6
20. Mass Suggestion



Able Learner means you can basically choose any skill. We have 9 or more, so a good selection seems to be:
1. Search
2. Disable Device
3. Spot
4. Diplomacy
5. Sense Motive
6. Hide
7. Spellcraft
8. Concentration
9. Use Magic Device


Altogether, you start out as a skill-monkey/Fighter/Cleric and finish with every level advancing:

Cleric caster level (->L17)
Paladin Smite Evil (->L17 = 4/day)
Full Base Attack (->20)
Bardic Music (->L18)
Lore (->L17)
9+ skills
Sneak Attack -> (->L20)
Turn Undead (->L18) (By RAW at least. Sacred Outlaw also advances Turn undead according to cleric levels even though you traded it for Champion.)
Wild Cohort (Special mount as Druid L17)


You also have access to other key class-defining abilities.

Evasion (Greater Anyspell[DMM[Persist] Alternate Source Ruin Delver's Fortune])
Uncanny Dodge
Trapfinding
Saves + Cha modifier (Greater Anyspell[DMM[Persist] Alternate Source Ruin Delver's Fortune])
Aura of Courage
Martial Weapons, Heavy Armor, Tower Shields
Fighter Feats (Anyspell[Heroics])


Altogether, the combination subsumes the hallmarks of 5 classes :smallsmile: I suspect it's not really possible to go further, although I'm curious if anyone has ideas...

[Elves]

Can you take both champion and cloistered cleric? I thought the deal with UA classes was that they're actual variant classes and not ACFs.

[Anthrowhale]

Can you take both champion and cloistered cleric? I thought the deal with UA classes was that they're actual variant classes and not ACFs.

As far as I can see it's valid. Champion is listed under Other Class Variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#otherClassVariants) which says:

These variants simply swap one or more of that class's features for one or more class features of another class.
Since a Cloistered Cleric is still a Cleric it is a valid target for the Champion swap.

[Elves]

Cool, I don't have much to say then. Dipping a weaker class and then taking one of the feats that let you advance its main feature while taking caster classes has always been a valid form of tier-shaming.

You could sacrifice a sneak attack die for Knight of Furyondy 1 which gives you a paladin mount, though you'd have to use elf chaos shuffle to meet the prereqs. Only becomes appealing if you're lactose tolerant enough to retrain PRC prereqs, though, in which case you don't technically need elf anyway.

[Kaleph]

In the last days I was also checking the chances for a three-class character (reminiscence of AD&D/BG2's fighter/wizard/thief), and I can possibly suggest some additional options.

You could sacrifice the rogue and fighter levels and replace them with swordsage 2; you'd get back the 2d6 sneak attack AND the monk's Wis-to-AC bonus. Then get persistent spell through metamagic storm (or any other trick to get free feats), and replace it with planar touchstone (catalogue of enlightenment: kobold domain) to keep trapfinding. Hopefully I'm not overlooking something that would make the build illegal...

PS: worthless to say, kudos to you, I also love these kinds of mashups!

[Anthrowhale]

Dipping a weaker class and then taking one of the feats that let you advance its main feature while taking caster classes has always been a valid form of tier-shaming.
My thinking was more like "cool, I can make a super-gestalt", but this does seem a valid inference.


You could sacrifice a sneak attack die for Knight of Furyondy 1 which gives you a paladin mount, though you'd have to use elf chaos shuffle to meet the prereqs.
The mount would not advance unless you continue to take Knight of Furyondy which implies abandoning other parts of the gestalt.



You could sacrifice the rogue and fighter levels and replace them with swordsage 2; you'd get back the 2d6 sneak attack AND the monk's Wis-to-AC bonus. Then get persistent spell through metamagic storm (or any other trick to get free feats), and replace it with planar touchstone (catalogue of enlightenment: kobold domain) to keep trapfinding. Hopefully I'm not overlooking something that would make the build illegal...

This seems valid, but I'm not sure how advantageous it as you can get a Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks) around when this starts coming online. For this build I was also worrying a bit about playability in the level 1 or 2 range.

With an unbounded number of feats, you can avoid the Rogue 1 / Fighter 1, since you can take Martial Strike(Shadow Jaunt) + Martial Stance(Assassin's Stance) + Planar Touchstone[Catalogs of Enlightenment[Kobold]]. It's also possible to trade the level of Bard for a level of Heartfire Fanner + Skill Focus (Diplomacy) + Negotiator. Altogether this would leave you with Cleric 20 casting and 18 levels of Cleric. But, the feat tax is quite high given the other demands.



PS: worthless to say, kudos to you, I also love these kinds of mashups!
Thanks :smallsmile:

[Elves]

The mount would not advance unless you continue to take Knight of Furyondy which implies abandoning other parts of the gestalt.

Holy Mount would still work to let your cleric levels advance your mount, since you have a special mount "as a paladin". @lvl20 your mount would equal a 22nd level paladin's.

[Anthrowhale]

Holy Mount would still work to let your cleric levels advance your mount, since you have a special mount "as a paladin". @lvl20 your mount would equal a 22nd level paladin's.
Very good. This works except for the feat tax then.

[Elves]

Very good. This works except for the feat tax then.

I'm just saying... (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/41909)

[Anthrowhale]

I'm just saying... (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/41909)
Yeah, there are many tricks for getting and using additional feats and/or avoiding PRC prereqs. I've avoided that here, because I suspect many such don't fly at actual tables, even if they are legal.

[Afghanistan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nazm3_OXac

I get it... But why? :smallconfused:

[Anthrowhale]

[I get it... But why? :smallconfused:

Elements of this may be useful for a solo character somewhere.