Goblin stand ins - what to use instead of goblins?

[Tangleweed]

I wrote a longer version that got lost, so this is the briefer version.

Basically I wanna replace goblins in a home brewed scenario I will DM, but I am not sure what to use instead. I am humbly looking for suggestions. Ill make a list of boxes that race need to tick:

- Not want to share caves with undeads as the main plot is that they are driven out of their caves and start to wreak havoc on the countryside because there is lot of undeads.
- Be an appropriate challenge for players through lvl 1-4.
- Intelligent enough to talk and negotiate with and possibly broker peace with.
- Be menacing AF. At least for their threat level.
- Not be orcs or kobolds as they have other parts to play in the plot.

I am tempted to use gnolls as I find them bad ass and really fun to voice act. My main concern with gnolls is that it might be confusing for the players that the gnolls are being chased out of their caves by undeads as gnolls usually use undead stuff. Anyone has any other suggestion?

[Aett_Thorn]

Darklings might be fun, as would Blights.

A group of bandits might work, too, since you could make them out of a wide assortment of creatures.

[MildMedium]

Maybe Xvarts or Grungs? Orrr Kua-Toa, Sahaugin, Bullywugs, Lizardfolk.

[CTurbo]

Xvart might work

[Spiritchaser]

I’d second the vote for bandits with the strong caveat that if there’s a coastline nearby make those bandits pirates.

Seriously, a handful of lookouts and minor operatives in towns then 8-10 pirates in the only sea cave that hasn’t been overrun by undead in part one... maybe with a lieutenant escaping towards a ship at the end if he/she can... if you want and the players are creative enough the could even be reluctant allies in part 7-8, because pirates vs zombies is a classic.

[Tangleweed]

This is all good suggestions. Thank you all. I was a bit unclear though. I need a lot of them. Like hundreds to come swarming the countryside as they are no longer able to stay in their home. Obv the PCs cant fight these at once or head on. They then break up inte to smaller groups and kill cattle and abduct ppl to eat and are searching for or looking for a new home. Possibly trying to invade one of the mining towns or the Dukes castle.

Darklings are cool, but I dont think they show up in such numbers as to be the main threat. But I will work in a little darkling sidequest.

[HappyDaze]

A xenophobic clan of LN or LE dwarves would work fine.

[dreast]

Kuo-toa would fit the bill, especially since they’d have to go to ground during the day once evicted from their cave complex. Gives the PC’s the chance to cut them up piecemeal.

[Chad.e.clark]

Kobolds? Mephits? Kenku?

[Willie the Duck]

Antropomorphic _________ (woodchucks, rats, camels, guinea pigs, flightless birds, etc.), using goblin stats.

[Jophiel]

Just because gnolls use undead doesn't mean that other undead can't push them out. If the players talk to them, just say "These are someone else's undead and a strength we can't control or eliminate"

[SpanielBear]

Tasloi and/or Gibberlings for that classic Baldur’s Gate feeling.

[RickAllison]

Lobsterfolk (from Tomb of Annihilation)
Awakened apes
Fey. Gives you a variety to work with (blink dogs, sprites, etc), very thematic for not wishing to exist with the undead, and you can use a lot of them.
A colony of weak dragons, led by a "fearsome" red wyrmling. Pepper the lair with drakes, pseudodragons, faerie dragons
Grungs
Wererat colony (if you can make silver weapons/alternate damage types a possibility)
Chitines, choldriths, and other spider-themed sapients, perhaps with more feral spider creatures like cave fishers living as part of their "family"

[Particle_Man]

Cannibalistic Halflings. Dark Sun needs more love.

[No brains]

So a large horde that's getting displaced from caves by undead and possible to reason with? Challenge 1-4? My answer would be partly dependent upon which undead are displacing them

Here's a really off the wall idea: Drow. Poison, charisma checks, or other drow tricks won't work as well on undead. Drow are known for raiding the surface, so people wouldn't guess they are being displaced. If they are pincered between the surface and undead, they might stoop to negotiation.

Myconids are another interesting idea. Though they aren't evil, they're alien enough that their presence on the surface would cause a lot of panic. They may be especially aggressive about invading homes because sunlight kills them. It takes some bravery to get within range of their telepathy spores to negotiate.

Only use xvarts if your players are mature enough to not call them 'farts'/ 'x-farts'.

[Aprender]

I like Willie the duck's idea. Use goblins stats and then re-skin them into whatever unique creation you want. Players love seeing new and interesting home brew mobs, and they hardly ever recognize the easy sub a DM can use to near infinitely increase the variety.

I recommend miniature giants. These tiny giants suffer from years of enthusiastic inbreeding in their mountain lair, and as a result, have shrink to the size of halflings but have the fecundity of goblins. They retain their cultural beliefs but have been easily displaced by the *insert the undead horde you've chosen".

[Remover of Obst]

Deep gnomes?

Re-skin with goblin stats and maybe let them keep some of their tricky bits and 120 darkvision.

[Sigreid]

Stone age tribal cannibal halflings.

[Diego]

- Not want to share caves with undeads as the main plot is that they are driven out of their caves and start to wreak havoc on the countryside because there is lot of undeads.
- Be an appropriate challenge for players through lvl 1-4.
- Intelligent enough to talk and negotiate with and possibly broker peace with.
- Be menacing AF. At least for their threat level.
- Not be orcs or kobolds as they have other parts to play in the plot.


Dwarves seem like they fill all those criteria really well. Unsavory dwarven bandits.

[Tanarii]

- Intelligent enough to talk and negotiate with and possibly broker peace with.
Side note on Gnolls and the default 5e lore, but they're not likely to do this. Of course, with a home setting you can set any lore you like. But if the players are familiar with the default 5e lore you might need to let them know your Gnolls are different. Or possibly previous edition lore.

[AttilatheYeon]

Troglodytes

[Lord Vukodlak]

Cannibalistic Halflings. Dark Sun needs more love.

Damn that was going to be my suggestion.

[No brains]

Cannibalistic Halflings. Dark Sun needs more love.


Damn that was going to be my suggestion.

Cannibalistic Halfling-oid Underground Dwellers?:smallbiggrin:

[Sutekh]

Kruthik's would work. Who doesn't like Zerg :)

[Sigreid]

Cannibalistic Halfling-oid Underground Dwellers?:smallbiggrin:

Canibal halfling cave-men.

Edit: Come to think of it, in a world where undead were common, cannibalisms may just be viewed as the responsible disposal of the dead before they come back as a problem.

[Particle_Man]

If this were a poll, halfling cannibals would be eating the competition for breakfast.:belkar:

[Sigreid]

cannibal gnomes could be good too.

[Slipperychicken]

I’d second the vote for bandits with the strong caveat that if there’s a coastline nearby make those bandits pirates.

Easy Mode: Put a river nearby and make them river-pirates or vikings. Maybe have their ship crashed or something.

[Bjarkmundur]

Myconids! Check out some videos about them, don't remember if it was Runemaster or MrRhexx, but they are a complete blast to run! The atmosphere these fungal creatures make are absolutely a blast, especially when compared with the rotting flesh of the undead.

[Kane0]

Grimlocks
Mephits
Lizardfolk
Hobgoblins
Feral Satyrs
Modrons
Worgs
Gremlins (just like goblins, but get stronger with magic powers at night time)

[Cikomyr]

You can also reskin Goblins and call them gremlins

[KorvinStarmast]

I’d second the vote for bandits with the strong caveat that if there’s a coastline nearby make those bandits pirates.

Seriously, a handful of lookouts and minor operatives in towns then 8-10 pirates in the only sea cave that hasn’t been overrun by undead in part one... maybe with a lieutenant escaping towards a ship at the end if he/she can... if you want and the players are creative enough the could even be reluctant allies in part 7-8, because pirates vs zombies is a classic. That's what came to mind, and is similar to something I did recently with a bunch of pirates getting mixed up with a cult that was working on making a small undead army thanks to having a magical item ...
Cannibalistic Halflings. Dark Sun needs more love. Yes.
Stone age tribal cannibal halflings. Yes again.
Easy Mode: Put a river nearby and make them river-pirates or vikings. Maybe have their ship crashed or something. Add in a few guards and beserkers to liven it up. :smallcool:

[RickAllison]

Kruthik's would work. Who doesn't like Zerg :)

I looked at those, but you would need to change the personality of the race. Kruthiks are symbiotes (or parasites) with undead, happily hiding their eggs away while letting the neighbors guard the secret passageways.

[Sutekh]

I looked at those, but you would need to change the personality of the race. Kruthiks are symbiotes (or parasites) with undead, happily hiding their eggs away while letting the neighbors guard the secret passageways.

Didn't see anything about them -liking- undead, nor much of anyone else for that matter!

[RickAllison]

Didn't see anything about them -liking- undead, nor much of anyone else for that matter!

"Shared Lair. Kruthiks abide the presence of constructs, elementals, oozes, and undead, and use such creatures to help guard their hive. Kruthiks are smart enough to barricade some tunnels and dig new ones that keep their neighbors away from their eggs."

It's not about liking the neighbors, it's about acknowledging that the neighbors are useful.

[Arcangel4774]

Cant think of the name but the frog people you find in Out of the Abyss

[Sutekh]

"Shared Lair. Kruthiks abide the presence of constructs, elementals, oozes, and undead, and use such creatures to help guard their hive. Kruthiks are smart enough to barricade some tunnels and dig new ones that keep their neighbors away from their eggs."

It's not about liking the neighbors, it's about acknowledging that the neighbors are useful.

Hmm, did not see that, I'm still thinking in 3.x mode.

[RickAllison]

Hmm, did not see that, I'm still thinking in 3.x mode.

I only know that because I specifically looked at them as my first option for this thread and looked at the book for their behavior.

[Urukubarr]

even though its a different universe I like using the Skaven from Warhammer. the concept obviously, I don't just plop that into dnd.

[Sutekh]

even though its a different universe I like using the Skaven from Warhammer. the concept obviously, I don't just plop that into dnd.

Mmm, low lvl toons Vs Warpfire throwers :D

[Finback]

Cannibalistic Halfling-oid Underground Dwellers?:smallbiggrin:

*Iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg*

[8wGremlin]

*Iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg*

CHUDS.... omg, forgotten about that movie

[Teaguethebean]

Kobolds you have beautiful eyes kind reader.

[Cwyll]

Xvart might work

Agree; xvarts are great and don't appear enough.
Just let them keep a cave bear they can worship, and that's left with them...