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The Giant
2006-03-13, 04:52 PM
New comic is up.

Sleffie
2006-03-13, 04:53 PM
Tis awesome again!

timothyx
2006-03-13, 04:53 PM
so new, and so first!! woot!

::edit::

By a damned second... lol

WildBill
2006-03-13, 04:54 PM
I love Haley sricking her tounge out at the end.
And
First page

darkninjaoflight
2006-03-13, 04:56 PM
Geez...that's harsh!

Sleffie
2006-03-13, 04:56 PM
Pirate halfling beats Belkar halfling anytime, Timothyx!

It's nice how Haley, as second in command, adds so much to the conversations without being able to talk. ;)

Carrion_Humanoid
2006-03-13, 04:57 PM
Awsome comic!

Oh, and one more thing.
Take ur blood oath and shove it up your wrinkled incorprial ass. . . HAHA!

Randomnesh
2006-03-13, 04:58 PM
Awesome comic, as usual.

Good for Haley, learning to convey her emotions without words. I think she managed to get her point across. ;)

battleburn
2006-03-13, 04:59 PM
Great comic, I love the :P of Haley


EDIT: Wooooot!!!!!11, first page

White Blade
2006-03-13, 05:01 PM
Brilliantnessousity! No, that doesn't even resemble a word, I invented it to describe the awesomeness of the comic today.

Archonic Energy
2006-03-13, 05:02 PM
Last panel ....
Priceless

Even muted Haley can add just the right words to the conversation.

Edit: W00t 1st page !!!

Romalar
2006-03-13, 05:02 PM
Hey, Roy seems to be growing up a bit!

I mean, maybe he's not entirely mature about how he tells his father, but he seems to have come to the right conclusion about what must be done regardless of how others went about getting it to happen. He's made a lot of poor choices in how he treats his friends and acquaintances and some of his decisions, but every now and then he seems like he could become a respectable leader.

And apparently, he's got Haley to give the raspberry; he can be immature vicariously through her :)

demonfey
2006-03-13, 05:03 PM
First page!

I wondered when Roy was going to tell off his father, because he just seems to be doing that to everyone that tries and controls him, since he told Miko off, and his father is a serial offender in that case.

Blaznak
2006-03-13, 05:04 PM
Woot! Its not even supper time and the comic is up! Whoo Hoo!

Melnor
2006-03-13, 05:05 PM
Amazing comic, Giant! Not only did I enjoy an insight into Roy's character, the emotion, but especially Haley's facial expressions! Who knew you could do that with stick figures?

thatwolfguy
2006-03-13, 05:05 PM
wow - i'm blown away.

great strip

this is a side of roy that is going to take some getting used to. i noticed it a bit when he spoke like that to shojo before too. i'm not sure that i like that side of him, but it sure makes things interesting

edit:grrr page 2

Zaruthustran
2006-03-13, 05:05 PM
Wow, I wonder if Roy's defiance will finally earn the respect of his dad, or just piss him off.

Harliquinn
2006-03-13, 05:06 PM
I really enjoyed this strip! (First time posting in a while). Not only did Roy get to tell off his dad and accept a new world-saving quest, but Haley now has a new job as a mime :)

GM_West
2006-03-13, 05:06 PM
Oh you go, Roy!!! That was awesome Giant. Loved Haley's little tounge wag at the end as well. Too funny!! :D

Amorphous_Ferret
2006-03-13, 05:07 PM
I love this comic.

More specifically, I like how Rich comments on how often people would take similar "quests" like this on flimsier reasoning. He is showing us the inherent absurdness of it all.

Notice how the comic is getting more plot-driven and less joke-laden? (Same thing happened to Squidi, I remember.)I think that's just gravy.

Thanks, Rich!

ObadiahtheSlim
2006-03-13, 05:12 PM
Fun stuff. Roy really has some family issues, but who can blame him. I wonder how he will react when his sister enters the picture.

LaValle
2006-03-13, 05:13 PM
WOOT!!! Go Roy ;D

Mateo
2006-03-13, 05:15 PM
Ah Roy....


you and the right thing...

Squall83
2006-03-13, 05:15 PM
Yay! Great Comic!

My first try and I'm at page 2. ^^

Somehow I understand Roy's feelings. I want to see Mikos face when she gets to know that Belkar will be free. ^^

Lightman
2006-03-13, 05:16 PM
Tis awesome again!
Seconded.

HyperJen
2006-03-13, 05:17 PM
*hugs The Giant*

It's just so...

*hugs The Giant again*

Chaos
2006-03-13, 05:19 PM
wow - i'm blown away.

great strip

this is a side of roy that is going to take some getting used to. i noticed it a bit when he spoke like that to shojo before too. i'm not sure that i like that side of him, but it sure makes things interesting

edit:grrr page 2

That new Roy was to be expected really. People have been telling him what to do - or have been trying to - all the time... his father, Miko, Shojo... and now he´s had it, and he´s no longer pulling any punches.

And, besides, he IS absolutely right in what he said his dad´s behavior.

Lastly... it has its good sides. Haley definitely loves Roy´s new side, and I suppose the other OotS´ers will respect him more for it. Maybe even Shojo is a little bit impressed. (no hope for Miko or Roy´s dad there, though)

Taelas
2006-03-13, 05:19 PM
Woohoo! Go Roy!

Chaos
2006-03-13, 05:21 PM
Fun stuff. Roy really has some family issues, but who can blame him. I wonder how he will react when his sister enters the picture.

That WILL lay to rest the question of who is better equipped to deal with danger - fighter or spellcaster... boy, will THAT be something to throw in Roy´s dad´s face... ;D

flamestrike
2006-03-13, 05:22 PM
That new Roy was to be expected really. People have been telling him what to do - or have been trying to - all the time... his father, Miko, Shojo... and now he´s had it, and he´s no longer pulling any punches.

And, besides, he IS absolutely right in what he said his dad´s behavior.


Mmm, gotta love a good character arc. Character development is definitely a good thing.

Great comic, Giant! I'm all about the bitter Roy ;D

Supagoof
2006-03-13, 05:24 PM
Yeah boy! Yo go Roy! Awesome. Makes me wonder if he'll actually get his sword repaired this time around? Perhaps not to keep his dad from bugging him, but perhaps because he needs his dad to show the way?

Superb comic. Haley :P is priceless.

AmoDman
2006-03-13, 05:24 PM
I think Roy's the one being a little 'bit of a jerk now, right or not, but I ddn't expect much more out of him anyway, so whatever.

Crolack
2006-03-13, 05:28 PM
"Otyugh covered in sourkraut on a hot day."

;D

Maxymiuk
2006-03-13, 05:28 PM
I'll just say that I'll enjoy when a character puts on boots and starts kicking butt.

Go Roy.

Krytha
2006-03-13, 05:29 PM
haha go roy! Eh... hes been a bit of a jerk since they got to Azure City, so if youre on a roll, keep rollin! And you know hes still a nice guy deep down cuz hes doing the quest!

But who is going to fill in the shoes of Belkar if they get going while hes on trial? Miko? Hinjo? SHOJO? (haha...no)

Giant levels up! Epic level multiclass story-teller/jester!

TinSoldier
2006-03-13, 05:29 PM
Two lines:

This whole "job offe"r stinks worse than an otyugh covered in sauerkraut on a hot day!
and

ZIP IT (Flashes of Austin Powers, there...)

Cool update, I certainly sympathize with how Roy has been jerked around.

Vengeful_Hand
2006-03-13, 05:30 PM
Wow, I wonder if Roy's defiance will finally earn the respect of his dad, or just piss him off.



If his dad is the smirking, self-satisfied prick he seems to be, then he'll just get mad. He doesn't seem to realize he has that problem parents all too often have: Your children are their own people, not extensions of yourself.

Constantly condescending, scornful of Roy's attempts to live his own life, rather than his father's life, never missing the chance to put Roy down...it astounds me that Roy is Lawful Good after growing up under such an jerk.

I wonder if the sword could be remade with ghostly touch, mua ha ha.

Swashbuckler
2006-03-13, 05:33 PM
I can just hear Elan now ...

"Disrespect, disrespect, disrespect your father's spirit ..."

Wow. Angsty Roy. :o

mipers
2006-03-13, 05:34 PM
The raspberry...

precious! ;D

Evik
2006-03-13, 05:34 PM
oh yeah Loved the last panel...
classic :D

Krytha
2006-03-13, 05:34 PM
Roy sure has elicited a lot of unhappy faces from other people recently hahaha...

This just reminded me how many plot ends there are now. New superquest, fix the sword, Haley's dad is still in jail, Miko's vendetta, Roy's sister... SO MUCH MATERIAL!!

n11
2006-03-13, 05:37 PM
I think the Azure City owes the OOTS some nifty new magic items for putting them through this charade and having the OOTS take on this mission.

One possibility:
Roy: +3 Undead-Bane Greatsword.
Durkon: +2 Silent Dwarven Platemail.
Haley: +4 Evil Outsider(read: Sabine)-Bane Composite Longbow.
Vaarsuvius: Boccob's Blessed Book, filled with some of the best spells the Azure City has to offer.
Belkar: +3 Lead Sheet of Smiting.
Elan: +5 Clue (I imagine Roy would be in a better mood if Elan could get a clue a little more often)

fithi
2006-03-13, 05:39 PM
*giggle* Go Haley!

All in all, a great comic, Giant.

Love that Roy's able to see the bigger picture.

Carrion_Humanoid
2006-03-13, 05:41 PM
I second his motion

Sylian
2006-03-13, 05:41 PM
This shows why Roy is Lawful Good. He was angry, angry because of Miko, angry for the imprisonment, angry beacuse he had thought that he would die, angry because of his father. Shojo had shown that he lied and Roy doesn't trust him.

He is deadly tired of this, probably just want to go to a nice inn and rest. What does he do? He takes the quest, with people he doesn't trust and probably doesn't like either. It's on a dangerous quest that might cost him not only his, but also his friends lives, if they choose to follow him.

That's sacrificing. Very sacrificing. Another person might just have walked away, like Haley or V. But not Roy. Not Roy. Why? Because he's Lawful Good.

sun_tzu
2006-03-13, 05:41 PM
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Roy rocks sooo much.
But of course, we already knew that.

Alfryd
2006-03-13, 05:42 PM
New comic is up.
Good... that just leaves the small matter of Belkar to contend with. Ah... the plot thickens.

He's made a lot of poor choices in how he treats his friends and acquaintances and some of his decisions, but every now and then he seems like he could become a respectable leader.
That's nice to know.

Woot! Its not even supper time and the comic is up! Whoo Hoo!
I am also pleased.

rebellioussong
2006-03-13, 05:45 PM
nice

now you just need to give roy a green mohawk.

mack962289
2006-03-13, 05:46 PM
Thats was great and funny too. Great laughs.

RemoJr
2006-03-13, 05:49 PM
woot! once again, great comic.

i was expecting roy to not agree with the offer but i guess he saw though his emotions.

codemartin
2006-03-13, 05:51 PM
first great comic gaint.

Second Roys aligment defintly good saving the world to the end. truth be told i dont think I would have after being manupliated all that time.

Also go last panel go ;D

Edit: Woot page 4

Sebastian
2006-03-13, 05:52 PM
Wooo!! Go, Roy, you are my hero.

See, people, this is a how a paladin should be.

Sebastian
2006-03-13, 05:56 PM
I think the Azure City owes the OOTS some nifty new magic items for putting them through this charade and having the OOTS take on this mission.

One possibility:
Roy: +3 Undead-Bane Greatsword.


Undead bane!? It works on ghosts,too? ;D

n11
2006-03-13, 06:02 PM
Undead bane!? It works on ghosts,too? ;D


I was thinking in terms of defeating Xykon. It would have to be a ghost-touch weapon for him to whack his dad.

theKOT
2006-03-13, 06:08 PM
Roy sure has a lot of ranks in perform(telling people off) doesn't he? I mean, he really seems to grandstand these sorts of things and use them as oppritunities to hurt people. Sure, Roy's dad, much like Miko, was in the wrong, but that doesn't give Roy a free pass to be so nasty. He really attacks people, in ways that don't help anything. He may be doing the right thing in saving the world, but I don't think Roy has been a very nice person recently. He seems to be full of anger and apt to lash out at people. He even was kinda harsh on Hinjo. Ah well, bitter Roy has possibilities and makes the story a bit more interesting, despite the post-Miko and post-Trial exposition drag.

Wooo!! Go, Roy, you are my hero.

See, people, this is a how a paladin should be.
No, it is really not. Miko isn't either, but a paladin shouldn't lash out as often as Roy has been. Not that a paladin can't lash out, but Roy is not a perfect example of how a paladin should act.

Sebastian
2006-03-13, 06:08 PM
I was thinking in terms of defeating Xykon.
Oh, I know, I just was thinking that he could hit two birds with a stone. Undead birds. :)

NovaNightmare
2006-03-13, 06:13 PM
Love the last frame!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


ha ha Ha HA HA HA HA Ha HA Ha ha ha ..................[Gasp... oops]....

ref
2006-03-13, 06:15 PM
Of course, when it's Roy who is being rude, everyone loves him. Of course.

Great comic, keep the good job up!

Midnight Son
2006-03-13, 06:18 PM
Roy sure has a lot of ranks in perform(telling people off) doesn't he? I mean, he really seems to grandstand these sorts of things and use them as oppritunities to hurt people. Sure, Roy's dad, much like Miko, was in the wrong, but that doesn't give Roy a free pass to be so nasty. He really attacks people, in ways that don't help anything. He may be doing the right thing in saving the world, but I don't think Roy has been a very nice person recently. He seems to be full of anger and apt to lash out at people. He even was kinda harsh on Hinjo. Ah well, bitter Roy has possibilities and makes the story a bit more interesting, despite the post-Miko and post-Trial exposition drag.
No, it is really not. Miko isn't either, but a paladin shouldn't lash out as often as Roy has been. Not that a paladin can't lash out, but Roy is not a perfect example of how a paladin should act. Yeah. Roy's always being mean to people. He should fall. 8)

The_Ducky_Ninja
2006-03-13, 06:22 PM
I was almost expecting to see [/rant] at the end of Roy's speech there. Good for him.

Also, I don't remember anything with Roy's sister...someone wanna fill me in/link to the comic with her?

Eriol
2006-03-13, 06:22 PM
I think the Azure City owes the OOTS some nifty new magic items for putting them through this charade and having the OOTS take on this mission.

One possibility:
Roy: +3 Undead-Bane Greatsword.
Durkon: +2 Silent Dwarven Platemail.
Haley: +4 Evil Outsider(read: Sabine)-Bane Composite Longbow.
Vaarsuvius: Boccob's Blessed Book, filled with some of the best spells the Azure City has to offer.
Belkar: +3 Lead Sheet of Smiting.
Elan: +5 Clue (I imagine Roy would be in a better mood if Elan could get a clue a little more often)
lol. Though Durkon would need more than that to overcome the Armour Check Penaltae, since that's -6 for him.

;)

Eternal-Darthness
2006-03-13, 06:22 PM
Roy needs to chill out a little bit. Sure his dad may have had that coming, but Roy definitely tells people off too harshly and often.

It works on ghosts too??
Down! Down I say!

Roy's chauvinistic attitude toward Miko only got adjusted when something relatively severe happened to him. (Heh heh) What'ya wanna bet that something of similar epic scale is needed to straighten him out on the "injuring people with the truth" front?

JessmanCA
2006-03-13, 06:27 PM
woah.

Why doesn't Roy want to get vengeance for his father? Sure I can understand they had issues, but doesn't he care about preserving his family's honor and such? Before he was all about destroying Xykon and now he's telling his dad to shove it up his ass. Roy seems to be the big jerk in this case. Talking to his dad like that...just wrong.

I miss the more lighthearted humor strips.

Nekkira
2006-03-13, 06:31 PM
I enjoyed this comic immensely. Haley is very eloquent with her facial expressions.
As far as people think Roy is too harsh on his father...he's been stressed out for months now being dragged across country, imprisoned, etc... And his father is a manipulative jerk anyway, so I agree with him.

BURNhollywoodBURN
2006-03-13, 06:33 PM
Wow, I wonder if Roy's defiance will finally earn the respect of his dad, or just piss him off.


Piss him off. Definetly piss him off.

Particle_Man
2006-03-13, 06:34 PM
I'd go easy on Roy. Diplomacy is a cross-class skill and chr is a dump stat for fighters.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-13, 06:38 PM
Fun stuff. I suspect Roy and his father have some issues to work out from beyond the grave. Also, it strikes me that this comic in particular seems to be something that I could imagine happening in an actual game without much trouble. I could see the GM figuring that Roy would do what his father said without a hitch; and the player (a good one, I might add) going along with it, but doing it his way.

Also, still wondering about Roy's alignment. Yeah, he's technically following the law and the good, even though he's complaining... his official alignment should be reluctant lawful good.

Rylon
2006-03-13, 06:38 PM
Yay Roy!

Great Job Giant!

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2006-03-13, 06:38 PM
Well, I consider this. Things haven't gone well for Roy for almost 100 strips. He's been

1) Stabbed
2) A target of Assassination
3) A woman (to escape said assassination)
4) Humiliated
5) Dragged to Azure City against his will
6) Pontificated at
7) Imprisoned
8) Put on trial
9) Threatened by a paladin for defending his teammate
10) Shown that arrest and trial were all part of an elaborate hoax
11) Shown that his dad was a co-conspirator of the above.

and finally

12) Forced to deal with Elan for the entire trip.

I'd be ready to tell of my Dad at that point as well, and he and I get along quite well. Roy's at the end of his tether. No wonder he's telling his dad off.

Brother_Glacius
2006-03-13, 06:40 PM
***** Very nice way to end the scene. And I do hope it is at its end. Not to put the writing down or anything...but can't wait to get some action in again with these guys. So much blabbing....warrior needs action badly. :)

Can't wait until Wednesday. :)

***** Brother G.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-13, 06:42 PM
Roy sure has a lot of ranks in perform(telling people off) doesn't he? I mean, he really seems to grandstand these sorts of things and use them as oppritunities to hurt people. Sure, Roy's dad, much like Miko, was in the wrong, but that doesn't give Roy a free pass to be so nasty. He really attacks people, in ways that don't help anything. He may be doing the right thing in saving the world, but I don't think Roy has been a very nice person recently. He seems to be full of anger and apt to lash out at people. He even was kinda harsh on Hinjo. Ah well, bitter Roy has possibilities and makes the story a bit more interesting, despite the post-Miko and post-Trial exposition drag.

Noted. I wonder how much he's taking out his frustrations with the Order on Miko and his Dad. That having been said, we've seen a definite upswing in his loyalty to the Order; he's gone from abandoning Elan to the bandits to telling off his own Father (at least partially) on their behalfs. Wonder if any of the group will make him rethink that loyalty later. Belkar? Ehh, too obvious.

soozenw
2006-03-13, 06:43 PM
:P "wrinkled incorporeal ass"

i have to use that line sometime...

Kizor
2006-03-13, 06:43 PM
I'm with Roy on this. He's always been easy to irritate, but his recent turbo boost comes from the way he's been lied to, insulted, manipulated, almost killed, dragged halfway across the continent for a mock trial to get him on a job he would've accepted in the first place, imprisoned, led to believe that his life and those of his party are in mortal danger and gender-swapped. Then there are such matters as the massive financial loss and Haley's long-term injury. This entire storyline has been a massive boot to the face for Roy.

His father has never been shown as anything else as a mean, harsh, selfish, condescending, (...) arrogant little twerp. In his quest to destroy Xykon at great effort, time consumption and risk Roy's shown a deep devotion that has never been reprociated. Any obligation has long since been fulfilled, and I for one cheer him for this.

The Giant
2006-03-13, 06:44 PM
woah.

Why doesn't Roy want to get vengeance for his father? Sure I can understand they had issues, but doesn't he care about preserving his family's honor and such? Before he was all about destroying Xykon and now he's telling his dad to shove it up his ass. Roy seems to be the big jerk in this case. Talking to his dad like that...just wrong.

This conversation makes a lot more sense in light of Roy's part in On the Origin of PCs. Basically, Roy agrees to take on the quest solely because his father doesn't think a fighter can do it, and tells him so. Roy was more interested in proving his father wrong than actually getting vengeance. And even at that point, he and his father had a very strained relationship, starting with the fact that Eugene refused to speak to Roy for three years because he didn't go to Wizard School.

The point being that at that time, Roy would have told his father to shove it and NOT done the quest anyway.


I miss the more lighthearted humor strips.

They will be back. The end to this sequence is near, and then there will be a nice dose of comedy for a good while.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-13, 06:45 PM
Elan: +5 Clue (I imagine Roy would be in a better mood if Elan could get a clue a little more often)

Oh, lord. Wouldn't that be the perfect magic item. I can imagine it now: (Elan puts it on) "My God! I'm a fool! Roy, you abandoned me in the woods! Haley, you're in love with me! Snap!"

Pause.

"Crap! The word 'snap' is overplayed, isn't it?!"

Kizor
2006-03-13, 06:46 PM
Curses! Shot down by the Giant himself!

synnerman
2006-03-13, 06:46 PM
Wooo! Go Roy!


Oh..first post! ;D

The Giant
2006-03-13, 06:50 PM
Curses! Shot down by the Giant himself!

Not true, everything you said is ALSO true. Roy's relationship with his father is complicated, and Roy doesn't always admit his motivations for things he does or says.

Think about what it would be like to grow up with Eugene Greenhilt as your actual father. You would learn pretty quickly that any display of genuine emotion or caring was apt to be stepped on with a sarcastic insult. You might also learn that the only way to get someone to pay attention to you is with harsh language.

Steward
2006-03-13, 06:50 PM
Oh, lord. Wouldn't that be the perfect magic item. I can imagine it now: (Elan puts it on) "My God! I'm a fool! Roy, you abandoned me in the woods! Haley, you're in love with me! Snap!"

Pause.

"Crap! The word 'snap' is overplayed, isn't it?!"

But then Elan would multi-class to Fighter, hunt down the Longitudinal Association, and return with a new blond wig and some demonscale armor for Haley.

BURNhollywoodBURN
2006-03-13, 06:52 PM
I was almost expecting to see [/rant] at the end of Roy's speech there. Good for him.

Also, I don't remember anything with Roy's sister...someone wanna fill me in/link to the comic with her?

I would but that has noth....
Ah, whatever. http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=256
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=257
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=258
Also the Origin of PCs mentions her to. I thank my sister for buying it.

Kizor
2006-03-13, 06:54 PM
Not true, everything you said is ALSO true. Roy's relationship with his father is complicated, and Roy doesn't always admit his motivations for things he does or says.

Think about what it would be like to grow up with Eugene Greenhilt as your actual father. You would learn pretty quickly that any display of genuine emotion or caring was apt to be stepped on with a sarcastic insult. You might also learn that the only way to get someone to pay attention to you is with harsh language.

Thank you, sir! Your description has much helped my grasp of the character, and may I just say that the beard really suits you. ;D

BURNhollywoodBURN
2006-03-13, 06:55 PM
And may I just say that the beard really suits you. ;D

?????

Edit: Damnit! Stupid smiley codes! grumble grumble grumble

theKOT
2006-03-13, 06:57 PM
His father has never been shown as anything else as a mean, harsh, selfish, condescending, (...) arrogant little twerp. In his quest to destroy Xykon at great effort, time consumption and risk Roy's shown a deep devotion that has never been reprociated. Any obligation has long since been fulfilled, and I for one cheer him for this.
[OtOoPCS spoiler!!]
Actually, Roy was never really acting out of devotion. He was trying to stick it to his dad, mostly. I see Roy's recent attitude as similar to Durkon's swing in Origin.
[/spoiler]
I know that Roy has been through a lot, but he seems to turn times when he should simply tell someone off as a chance to hurt them, personally. Feh, What do I know, I thought Miko's character was unchanging....
Edit:

Think about what it would be like to grow up with Eugene Greenhilt as your actual father. You would learn pretty quickly that any display of genuine emotion or caring was apt to be stepped on with a sarcastic insult. You might also learn that the only way to get someone to pay attention to you is with harsh language.
Ahhh, so that's where Roy gets it from. And why he tends to be so harsh. Still doesn't(from my point of view) justify everything, but it does explain it.

BURNhollywoodBURN
2006-03-13, 07:02 PM
[OtOoPCS spoiler!!]
Actually, Roy was never really acting out of devotion. He was trying to stick it to his dad, mostly. I see Roy's recent attitude as similar to Durkon's swing in Origin.
[/spoiler]
I know that Roy has been through a lot, but he seems to turn times when he should simply tell someone off as a chance to hurt them, personally. Feh, What do I know, I thought Miko's character was unchanging....

VERRY sorry for quoting the spoiler (thanks to you, I know it's bad) but you're OMG! Acctualy right! (I'm not trying to insult you, I meant that this COULD just mean something. Why must you do this to us, giant? WHY?)

theKOT
2006-03-13, 07:07 PM
Errr, thanks, I think? Anyway, I would just edit the quote to say "Spoiler was here" or something like that.

Lianae
2006-03-13, 07:17 PM
Roy is one of the best ranters I've ever seen! ;D

nightfire8199
2006-03-13, 07:26 PM
nice comic...i like it...may have to quote it sumtime.

EscherEnigma
2006-03-13, 07:37 PM
Perfect example that "Lawful Good" doesn't mean nice. Just like villains can be charming gentleman with all the grace and manners of victorian england, good guys can be quite nasty at times.

vampeel
2006-03-13, 07:51 PM
Well this one ups the PG rating on this comic. But who cares, it was great. Ron telling of his dead, um undead, um not so dead, yet not alive father.

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:04 PM
I'm seeing two LG people (or one and an LN) fairly close to snapping here.

Miko got driven by chaos (in the form of Belkar - took about an hour) to a near psychotic breakdown.

Roy got driven by law (planning, by his father and Shojo - took about a month) to near death, the emotional duress of a trial, and so on.

Law and Chaos here put to the same net result: Fury. One in a way, the other in another. One for pure self-indulgence, and the other... as well! Yes, because Roy's father only cares about his own Lawful form of self indulgence through death - vengeance. In that matter, he is not all that different from Belkar. Belkar kills because he enjoys doing it, Eugene Greenhilt manipulates because, guess what, he would enjoy getting revenge. Law and Chaos here both wanted the same, both used the same methods to get it and both neared the same result. Yet, Roy didn't snap. There are many reasons for that, one of them being that Miko is way more arrogant (higher the guy, higher the fall) and the other being that Roy is USED TO seeing his whole belief system put into question. By his father, by most of his adventurer group.
The third reason is that what they did to Roy was necessary (quote-unquote) and what belkar did to Miko wasn't. Roy only kept himself from walking and letting the lich have his fun because the WORLD was at stake. If it were a village, right now, I don't think Roy would give a flying act of copulation.

redmind0
2006-03-13, 08:11 PM
no plot development really
Character development instead

theKOT
2006-03-13, 08:12 PM
@ The Wierdo
A. Roy hasn't snapped... yet.
B. Do we have any proof that Roy's dad is LG?
C. Either way, Belkar's methods included killing innocents. Big difference: Eugene tied tony up. Belkar killed the guard.

Steward
2006-03-13, 08:15 PM
If it were a village, right now, I don't think Roy would give a flying act of copulation.

I don't know. If they were innocent strangers in that village he would probably be compelled to help anyway. For all Roy's blustering he really is incapable of allowing innocents to die, regardless of his lack of personal investment in the matter.

I cite: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=162

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:17 PM
A. Roy hasn't snapped... yet.
B. Do we have any proof that Roy's dad is LG?
C. Either way, Belkar's methods included killing innocents. Big difference: Eugene tied tony up. Belkar killed the guard.

A- I meant he got furious.
B- I never said he is. I said it was a Lawful plan.
C- I'm not saying Belkar is good, or even that he's like Eugene. But what if, say, Vaarsuvius, an elf that's only bound to Roy by a contract, got killed in Miko's attack? Eugene didn't kill anyone actively, but he didn't take that into account either. Miko herself could have been killed. Or anyone of the OOTS.

metalphil
2006-03-13, 08:17 PM
Not really funny, but definitely opens up all sorts of awesome development for Roy's unresolved disputes with his father. :)

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:18 PM
I don't know. If they were innocent strangers in that village he would probably be compelled to help anyway. For all Roy's blustering he really is incapable of allowing innocents to die, regardless of his lack of personal investment in the matter.

I cite: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=162

Point, but I'm showing that this kind of action will tend to drive someone to alignment (or behavior) change.

theKOT
2006-03-13, 08:21 PM
A- I meant he got furious.
B- I never said he is. I said it was a Lawful plan.
C- I'm not saying Belkar is good, or even that he's like Eugene. But what if, say, Vaarsuvius, an elf that's only bound to Roy by a contract, got killed in Miko's attack? Eugene didn't kill anyone actively, but he didn't take that into account either. Miko herself could have been killed. Or anyone of the OOTS.
True true.
I don't think Roy's dad is Lawful at all. He is pretty self-absorbed.

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:22 PM
True true.
I don't think Roy's dad is Lawful at all. He is pretty self-absorbed.


True, but it was a Lawful (as in planned, premeditated) way to go about things. For this kind of action, any alignment will do, most often Lawfuls or Neutrals.

Dark_Stalion
2006-03-13, 08:23 PM
Lol, loved haley on the last panel. Another great speach by Roy. Glad he didn't take it too far this time, as he did with Miko. At least it looks like he walks away.

thanks Giant, made my day. ;D

ElfLad
2006-03-13, 08:27 PM
Huh, Roy is coming closer and closer to being a Miko.

I'm really liking all the character development taking place here. Good job, Giant.

theKOT
2006-03-13, 08:36 PM
True, but it was a Lawful (as in planned, premeditated) way to go about things. For this kind of action, any alignment will do, most often Lawfuls or Neutrals.
Belkar preplanned the entire Miko thing. Remember 286?

bosssmiley
2006-03-13, 08:36 PM
Go Roy! As Miko already found out, never push a reasonable man too far. ;D

And Haley's *pfffft* in the last panel rocks too.

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:43 PM
Belkar preplanned the entire Miko thing. Remember 286?

Actually, he WANTED TO DO something. He didn't plan to kill a guard, etc, etc, he planned to get her to fall SOMEHOW.

Eugene planned exactly what would happen: Roy being brought to court, bogus accusation, and so on and so forth. The "somehow" is already "a specific how", if you will, see the difference?

Edit: You can argue that Belkar planned from there, but a Chaotic can plan the next few minutes. Eugene planned a few weeks.

AnimeHeretic
2006-03-13, 08:46 PM
Being a noob to the site, maybe I don't have a right to say this, but lately I'm finding the strip becoming less fun and more sanctimonious with this current story arc, with the speeches against the Paladins, against Shojo and against Roy's father.

Admittedly I never liked the concept of Paladins played as "Hitler Youth" so popular in TSR novels and the like, which shows up here-- the view that shows Lawful Good as worse than evil. Paladins are suppoed to be Lawful yes, but they're also supposed to be Good, which means compassion for others. In my game these "Paladins" would have lost their status for their actions.

Anyway I hope the comic can go back to what made it good (IMHO)... jokes about dungeon crawls and bad RPG rules/cliches.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents and I hope I haven't come off sounding annoying

theKOT
2006-03-13, 08:47 PM
@ The Wierdo
I guess. Still, I don't think chaotic means "Incapable of planning."

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:49 PM
@ The Wierdo
I guess. Still, I don't think chaotic means "Incapable of planning."

Neither do I, I was only saying that the kind of planning Eugene did was one more likely to be done by Lawfuls than by Chaotics.

rolls1rerolls1
2006-03-13, 08:51 PM
Roy sure has a lot of ranks in perform(telling people off) doesn't he? I mean, he really seems to grandstand these sorts of things and use them as oppritunities to hurt people. Sure, Roy's dad, much like Miko, was in the wrong, but that doesn't give Roy a free pass to be so nasty. He really attacks people, in ways that don't help anything. He may be doing the right thing in saving the world, but I don't think Roy has been a very nice person recently.

Hmmmm....Sorry theKOT but I have to disagree. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Let me explain why:

Most of my life has been a battle in establishing independence and self-respect with my mother. Though she is highly educated and also very intelligent, she has an inability to not only see me as, but also to treat me as an adult. Over the years I have tried a myriad of ways to make her understand what she was doing was wrong. Nothing worked until the day I sat her down and told her off without mincing words: Though I love her dearly and will always be eternally greatful for everything she has done for me, this is my life and I will live it as I see fit. I will greatfully welcome any advice she wishes to give me, but I will not condone back-seat driving. Manipulation attempts will not be tolerated, especially those of emotional (i.e. guilt-trip) nature. Obviously this didn't sit well with her coming as it did from 'her little boy' ::) , but things have been peaceful ever since.

The point of all this? You say that such reactions don't help any. I say that sometimes they do, and sometimes it's the only thing that will trully work because it's the only thing that will totally shock the crap out of people because of the unexpectedness of your reaction. ;)



He seems to be full of anger and apt to lash out at people. He even was kinda harsh on Hinjo. Ah well, bitter Roy has possibilities and makes the story a bit more interesting, despite the post-Miko and post-Trial exposition drag.
No, it is really not. Miko isn't either, but a paladin shouldn't lash out as often as Roy has been. Not that a paladin can't lash out, but Roy is not a perfect example of how a paladin should act.Anger in a paladin is not necessarily bad, and in this case it's perfect for a paladin because it's a special type of anger. It's called righteous anger and is the emotion that any good character would experience in the face of a percieved injustice. It is (for me) the driving force behind a paladin. Without it he may as well hang up his sword. Of all the definitions of a paladin that I've read, I love this one the best:

A battle-ready warrior for whom faith is a shield, the Paladin fights for what he believes to be right. His steadfastness gives him powers to bestow blessings to his friends and wreak cruel justice on foes. There are those who call the Paladin an overwrought zealot, but others recognize in him the strength and goodness of the Light.
Righteous anger indeed! A thing beautiful and terrible to behold! ;D


Cheers.

ElfLad
2006-03-13, 08:52 PM
Actually, a plan like Shojo's, which bent the law and subverted the intent of the law in many places, would more likely be Chaotic or Neutral, IMO.

edit: r1r1, you don't really contradict what he said, because your example seemed to be of you telling your mother something politely. Roy was unnecessarily mean to his father and what he said was calculated to piss his father off rather than solve the problem. "Screw you" is never a good way to start off a conversation if you want to change someone's mind.

warmachine
2006-03-13, 08:52 PM
The past few strips have been storytelling, not comedy. But it's good storytelling and deserves to be in a book. Rich Burlew is going to publish this? Right?

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 08:54 PM
Actually, a plan like Shojo's, which bent the law and subverted the intent of the law in many places, would more likely be Chaotic or Neutral, IMO.

Lawful Evil bends or subverts the law. Without breaking it...

Kord
2006-03-13, 08:56 PM
Oh dear...The alignment disussion begins yet again. ::)

AnimeHeretic
2006-03-13, 09:00 PM
The past few strips have been storytelling, not comedy. But it's good storytelling and deserves to be in a book. Rich Burlew is going to publish this? Right?

Storytelling is fine so long as the comic keeps to its focus. I've seen too many webcomics spoiled that way. That's why I wanted to get it off my chest so to speak. I loved the comic since I first found it and don't want to see it lose what made it a favorite.

theKOT
2006-03-13, 09:01 PM
Hmmmm....Sorry theKOT but I have to disagree. I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. Let me explain why:

Most of my life has been a battle in establishing independence and self-respect with my mother. Though she is highly educated and also very intelligent, she has an inability to not only see me as, but also to treat me as an adult. Over the years I have tried a myriad of ways to make her understand what she was doing was wrong. Nothing worked until the day I sat her down and told her off without mincing words: Though I love her dearly and will always be eternally greatful for everything she has done for me, this is my life and I will live it as I see fit. I will greatfully welcome any advice she wishes to give me, but I will not condone back-seat driving. Manipulation attempts will not be tolerated, especially those of emotional (i.e. guilt-trip) nature. Obviously this didn't sit well with her coming as it did from 'her little boy' ::) , but things have been peaceful ever since.

The point of all this? You say that such reactions don't help any. I say that sometimes they do, and sometimes it's the only thing that will trully work because it's the only thing that will totally shock the crap out of people because of the unexpectedness of your reaction. ;)


Anger in a paladin is not necessarily bad, and in this case it's perfect for a paladin because it's a special type of anger. It's called righteous anger and is the emotion that any good character would experience in the face of a percieved injustice. It is (for me) the driving force behind a paladin. Without it he may as well hang up his sword. Of all the definitions of a paladin that I've read, I love this one the best:
Righteous anger indeed! A thing beautiful and terrible to behold! ;D


Cheers.
Did you tell her to take her condescension and shove it? Or call her a self-absorbed arrogant jerk(which Roy's father is, by the way)? You didn't attack her(from what you said) like Roy attacked his jerk of a father.

I never said a paladin can't feel anger. That's for idiots and Jedi's, who are pretty much the same group. But Roy's anger comes out in the form of personal attacks and spiteful speeches. That's not primo paladin, although someone could remain a paladin while doing so.

Edit: Yes! FINALLY something to discuss post-Miko! Hoorah!

rolls1rerolls1
2006-03-13, 09:03 PM
@ElfLad

LOLOLOL! :D

Let me just say what I wrote was paraphrased. What actually came out was much longer and none too polite! ;D

rolls1rerolls1
2006-03-13, 09:05 PM
Did you tell her to take her condescension and shove it? Or call her a self-absorbed arrogant jerk?

No. But to be honest I came very close. ::)

theKOT
2006-03-13, 09:08 PM
That could be the difference. Just sayin is all.

Serina_Spellbinder
2006-03-13, 09:12 PM
"Stinks worse than an otyugh covered in sauerkraut on a hot day" What an image!!

ROTFLMAO!!!

The_Kobold_Hero
2006-03-13, 09:17 PM
Wow. I really didn't see that twist coming. I like how Haley made a face at Roy's dad as they're walking away. ;D

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-03-13, 09:31 PM
Well, there goes filial piety......

That was unexpected to say the least...........

TinSoldier
2006-03-13, 09:39 PM
Perfect example that "Lawful Good" doesn't mean nice. Just like villains can be charming gentleman with all the grace and manners of victorian england, good guys can be quite nasty at times.Like Miko?



True true.
I don't think Roy's dad is Lawful at all. He is pretty self-absorbed.
Self-absorbed would be good-evil axis rather than chaos-law axis, IMO.


Oh dear...The alignment disussion begins yet again. ::)Yes, sometimes it is the most interesting thing to discuss. When it gets beyond a few posts, though, it deserves its own thread so as not to add too much noise to the main one.

Arachnophile
2006-03-13, 09:46 PM
I was thinking in terms of defeating Xykon. It would have to be a ghost-touch weapon for him to whack his dad.

Actually, you can hit ghosts with a normal weapon but there is a 50% miss chance. The rules I was taught anyway.

The Glyphstone
2006-03-13, 09:49 PM
A normal, MAGICAL weapon (at least +1 enhancement bonus). Nonmagical stuff goes right through, like they were gho--uh, never mind.

kit
2006-03-13, 09:51 PM
Hayley - sooo CUTE!!!

WeaponMasterLDO
2006-03-13, 09:52 PM
Great comic, I loved Haley sticking out her tounge in the last panel.

Steward
2006-03-13, 09:54 PM
I take everything back. Eugene is officially meaner to Roy than Miko.

Gralamin
2006-03-13, 10:21 PM
huh Xykon did a good deed by killing roys dad.

Xykon: I Did what now? who?

Tawkis
2006-03-13, 10:24 PM
huh Xykon did a good deed by killing roys dad.

Xykon: I Did what now? who?
Xykon didn't kill Roy's dad.

Xykon killed Eugene's master causing Greenhilt the senior to swear a "Blood Oath of Vengeance" against Xykon which he never fulfilled.

I think a good portion of his snapping at Roy here is jelousy that Roy although not successful has gotten further than Eugene ever did.

The_Weirdo
2006-03-13, 10:28 PM
Xykon didn't kill Roy's dad.

Xykon killed Eugene's master causing Greenhilt the senior to swear a "Blood Oath of Vengeance" against Xykon which he never fulfilled.

I think a good portion of his snapping at Roy here is jelousy that Roy although not successful has gotten further than Eugene ever did.

I don't know, I think it's just his being a donkey's hole.

Dr._Weird
2006-03-13, 10:31 PM
Great comic, I loved Haley sticking out her tounge in the last panel.

Yeah, the part that made the comic for me was Haley's smug expression in panel 4. I was happy I noticed it without somebody pointing it out to me over here, like I do with most of those things. I like little things like that.

Pesi
2006-03-13, 10:40 PM
Simply for using the word "Sauerkraut", The Giant gets a cookie from me.

Bilbo27
2006-03-13, 10:41 PM
:P Priceless!!

Love it, Roy is going to save the world again.

jackal59
2006-03-13, 11:37 PM
You know, for years after his death I dreamed of telling off my father. Now I just dream of him being here so that I could speak with him.

Purely personal reaction, but I didn't like this one at all - so much so, in fact, that I'll probably hesitate before coming back Wednesday.

simsimhada
2006-03-13, 11:41 PM
cool~! ;)

-from trpg.or.kr _simsimhada_-

TheLastOfTheFallen
2006-03-13, 11:41 PM
I loved this one. Hilarous, and haley sticking her tounge out at the end was priceless. That and the "this stinks worse than..." comment was great as well - yay IC humor! :D

*scampers away from the OOTS mafia*

Cobrateen2000
2006-03-14, 12:05 AM
The comic was great and all the rest, as usual, but people, please...

A Hero (that's Roy) has to be mean and brooding every now and then. It's probably written in the end of the Hero's Handbook under Side-effects Of Being A Hero. If you read comic books (which I do occasionally), you would see that this is true. So don't get angry at Roy for being a normal Hero. What I'm looking forward to is some cool new abilities. After all, once the Hero gets over their "Teanager" period of Hero-ness, they quite often have new, cool powers. I don't want to post a spoiler here, but some cool new feat would fit the bill for me. Perhaps one in which the Hero whirls around, hitting all nearby foes. On a completly unrelated note, I think Whirlwind attack is awsome.

Edit: Actually, I think it's about time they all got some new abilities and/or stuff. I'm talking prestige classes, powerful new items as somebody already said, and some new feats. The adventurers are great and all, but they should start meeting some tougher enemies soon, and will probably need more power. I believe the Giant, who obviously knows this already, will give them stuff. I can't wait to see what. Although, don't start talking about said prestige classes and other stuff here, there are other threads for that.

theKOT
2006-03-14, 12:16 AM
Who was angry at Roy? I think Roy makes lots pf mistakes, and personally I don't really feel any affection towards Roy, but I'm not angry at him. To draw a Harry Potter comparison, it's kinda like the fifth book. The hero has been through some bad stuff and is lashing out at people. It's understandable, but not "right", from my point of view.

Cobrateen2000
2006-03-14, 12:27 AM
Who was angry at Roy? I think Roy makes lots pf mistakes, and personally I don't really feel any affection towards Roy, but I'm not angry at him. To draw a Harry Potter comparison, it's kinda like the fifth book. The hero has been through some bad stuff and is lashing out at people. It's understandable, but not "right", from my point of view.


But that's the point.

Step 1: The Hero saves the world, and everyone is happy
Step 2: Lots of bad things happen to the Hero
Step 3: The Hero broods and mopes
Step 4: The Hero saves the world while being a bada**
Step 5: The Hero realises that he should cheer up
Step 6: The Hero recieves new powers so as to save the world from tougher badguys.

Edit: It may not be right, but it makes for great charachter development as part of the story arc.

theKOT
2006-03-14, 12:39 AM
Ok. Like I said in an earlier post, I like the possibilities that grumpy-Roy presents. I hope the Giant continues on this path. It is enjoyable.

Kedrot
2006-03-14, 01:09 AM
If other prople are making up words so can I... Superfantabulistic! about time Roy stuck it to his dad. Not to mention Haley's speech through silence delivered a finishing punch... Kudos!

Gleanerizer
2006-03-14, 01:12 AM
I for one am glad to see some character development. Nice to see the regression to the big font again, too (last speech bubbles in the strip). Though, I don't think it's permanent--I wish it was. My poor useless eyes!

Cobrateen2000
2006-03-14, 01:40 AM
By the way, why does Roy's dad, a respectable wizard on most accounts, not know what a phylactery is? He calls it a "thingymajab" or something, and isn't even certain about how it works. Shouldn't all wizards know what a phylatery is, if only because they someday might get one? Or perhaps Eugene isn't that great of a Wizard? He is a illusionist after all. Sorry respectable illusionists out there! Don't go illusion me to death or anything! Please! I actually meant that, by the way.

Adghar
2006-03-14, 01:45 AM
Well, the lich ritual (hereby to be referred to by me as the "lichual") is extremely and irreverably evil. Thus, most Good wizards would never touch the lichual.

metalphil
2006-03-14, 01:53 AM
Xykon killed Eugene's master causing Greenhilt the senior to swear a "Blood Oath of Vengeance" against Xykon which he never fulfilled.

Isn't it an Oath of Blood Vengeance?

mastroyo
2006-03-14, 01:59 AM
And even at that point, he and his father had a very strained relationship, starting with the fact that Eugene refused to speak to Roy for three years because he didn't go to Wizard School.



Just a minor thing, not sounding disrespectfull or anything...

Do we have here a bit of reflection of Rich in Roy? I mean, is the degree in Illustration and Graphic Design the kind of degree Rich's father wanted, or was law school, medicine or podiatrist a more prefered choice....

And pleaaaase don't take this like beeing obtuse or 'mind you own bussines'... but it just came to me when I saw the post....

::)

estergum
2006-03-14, 02:03 AM
By the way, why does Roy's dad, a respectable wizard on most accounts, not know what a phylactery is? He calls it a "thingymajab" or something, and isn't even certain about how it works. Shouldn't all wizards know what a phylatery is, if only because they someday might get one? Or perhaps Eugene isn't that great of a Wizard? He is a illusionist after all. Sorry respectable illusionists out there! Don't go illusion me to death or anything! Please! I actually meant that, by the way.


I know what a "phylactery" is but I sure can't pronounce it.
Thingymajab sounds about right to me :^)

Bakta
2006-03-14, 02:12 AM
First of, I think Roy took a level in crafting disturbing mental images from Belkar; I tried to figure out how a otyugh covered in sourkraut looked like under the sun... Somehow a bikini inserted itself in the tableau ::)

Next Roy vs Eugene. Well, it happens in some families that however one want to go smoothly, there are times where fights are needed to clan air up. To some who pointed out about Roy's meanness, Roy being a boy means usually he picks his attitude from his father's side. Yes, talking back to one's father like this is unsettling, but it's very likely those are the same kind of words Eugene used before to someone Roy is close to, or at Roy himself.

True that if Roy keep on at this, expecting to be betrayed and hurt, he will turn sour. He does need a gf...

cuibono_219
2006-03-14, 02:12 AM
Now there's one good example how a Lawful Good character should behave!!

Vampire_Boy
2006-03-14, 02:17 AM
Now there's one good example how a Lawful Good character should behave!!

Seconded. :) *hugs Roy* (in an entirely masculine buddy-to-buddy hug)

Vampire_Boy
2006-03-14, 02:24 AM
Perfect example that "Lawful Good" doesn't mean nice. Just like villains can be charming gentleman with all the grace and manners of victorian england, good guys can be quite nasty at times.

I don't see where alignment comes into this at all, when someone manipulates you like Eugene and Shojo did, every reasonable person I know will be extremely angry at that, and more likely than not will make their opinion to be known. I don't see why a LG character should just stand there, take it on a chin respectfully and say 'Of course, Daddy! Whatever you say, Daddy!'

dragonfly83h
2006-03-14, 03:13 AM
Good one, Giant :) you've done it again.

Though I hope you have got something really special in wait for #300.

Now who's with me?

Illsbane
2006-03-14, 03:49 AM
At this time, I feel really proud of Roy. He's a bit of a jerk in his own right, but pa Greenhilt is so much worse ... Well done, Sir Greenhilt! Good job to the Giant. ^^

Sidenote: Eugene hasn't even mentioned Julia, he's just been going on about Xykon. Either he really doesn't know his daughter is in danger, or he just doesn't care about his children beyond their usefulness for his Blood Vengeance.

tee_kay_one
2006-03-14, 03:53 AM
Man, I love Haley. She's cute. 8)

Besides, I think this comic was great -- first time a player character reacts normal. Hell, they all get tricked and influenced and driven into fishy sideplots by NPC. It was about time someone spoke up!
Hooray for Roy, I pronounce you leader of the "union of abused PC's (in construction)"

edit: it's nPc in english, right, not nSc :-/

Nikolai_II
2006-03-14, 03:55 AM
Now there's one good example how a Lawful Good character should behave!!

At least any Lawful Good characters that would prefer to be Chaotic Neutral ;)

SigilSigul
2006-03-14, 04:01 AM
Er. Reacing negatively to someone totally manipulating you and your friends to the point where you or your friends could have died and telling them how wrong they were, if rather vociferously, but /still doing the right thing and agreeing to it to save lives/ is CN?

Wow. I wouldn't want to play in your games. Do your paladins act like the Care Bears or something?

Illsbane
2006-03-14, 04:04 AM
Roy needs to chill out a little bit. Sure his dad may have had that coming, but Roy definitely tells people off too harshly and often.
Down! Down I say!

Roy's chauvinistic attitude toward Miko only got adjusted when something relatively severe happened to him. (Heh heh) What'ya wanna bet that something of similar epic scale is needed to straighten him out on the "injuring people with the truth" front?

But ... he already has a Belkar!

Illsbane
2006-03-14, 04:09 AM
Not true, everything you said is ALSO true. Roy's relationship with his father is complicated, and Roy doesn't always admit his motivations for things he does or says.

Think about what it would be like to grow up with Eugene Greenhilt as your actual father. You would learn pretty quickly that any display of genuine emotion or caring was apt to be stepped on with a sarcastic insult. You might also learn that the only way to get someone to pay attention to you is with harsh language.

... Ugh. That's ... that just sucks! I'd read Eugene hadn't planned on having kids, but that's no way to behave. If he didn't want children, he should have used some form of contraceptive. A cantrip could have done the work, darnit! -_- How'd this jackass ever get into the Upper Planes after death?

bosssmiley
2006-03-14, 05:09 AM
I know what a "phylactery" is but I sure can't pronounce it.

fi-lack-tree (the initial f is long)

Cheers. ;)

Methuselah_Amakiir
2006-03-14, 05:19 AM
Or fi-lack-tuhr-ee. You say tomato, I say tomato. Er...

My new QotD: "THBBBT!!"- Haley, to Roy's Dad

Delgarde
2006-03-14, 05:20 AM
Roy is USED TO seeing his whole belief system put into question. By his father, by most of his adventurer group.

Ah, so you see! Belkar *does* serve a useful purpose. Just as the rest of the party act as a restraining influence on Belkar, so too does he keep Roy's head from getting too big. Now who said he never contributed anything to society? :)

Delgarde
2006-03-14, 05:34 AM
Edit: Actually, I think it's about time they all got some new abilities and/or stuff. I'm talking prestige classes, powerful new items as somebody already said, and some new feats.

No, I don't think so. Certainly, they should be gaining levels, and we've seen that happen a few times. But I think paying too much attention to it would be a mistake - it focuses too much attention on the mechanics, distracting from the roleplay element. Mechanical details make good jokes from time to time (like Belkar's "Craft Disturbing Mental Image" feat), but I think it shouldn't go further that.

Delgarde
2006-03-14, 05:36 AM
By the way, why does Roy's dad, a respectable wizard on most accounts, not know what a phylactery is? He calls it a "thingymajab" or something, and isn't even certain about how it works.

I imagine he knows perfectly well what a phylactery is and how it works. I imagine he also knows perfectly well that Roy doesn't, and being his usual patronising self, explains it in the simplest terms possible.

RecurringDream
2006-03-14, 05:40 AM
I don't think words are sufficient to explain how much I would like to bed Haley, were she a real person. I am a lucky girl, considering she is *not* real, and my current harem is too ... "bulky" at the moment.

Additionally, I have to admit the caharter development over the course of the comic has been quite natural, and somewhat brilliantly everyman in my opinion.

Haley is Hothothot. Stick it to the man, my little rogue. :)

Delgarde
2006-03-14, 05:41 AM
I'd read Eugene hadn't planned on having kids, but that's no way to behave. If he didn't want children, he should have used some form of contraceptive.


He did, but the spell failed. He said that to Roy in Origins - no doubt making Roy feel even less wanted than before.

Delgarde
2006-03-14, 05:44 AM
My new QotD: "THBBBT!!"- Haley, to Roy's Dad

Yup. In the absence of speech, she's certainly mastering non-verbal communication. Watching her expression in the last few comics has been great fun, and that last panel is by far the best.

motub
2006-03-14, 07:18 AM
First, it was great to see Roy express himself; he's been (put) through a lot, and bottling up one's feelings about/after extended stress (especially when you find that it was contrived, "unnecessary" extended stress) is just not healthy for the body or mind.

Second, Haley was... stupendous in this strip.

But what's kinda confusing me about this thread is that a number of people have expressed concern/upset that Roy was "nasty".

Not quite seeing it... in the first 4 panels of his speech, Roy is sticking to fact, and factual evaluation (of his father being selfish, which I am more than willing to assume that Roy not only has enough data to judge, but is competent to judge, at least in this case). It's not until the 5th panel, when he "insults" his father, and the 6th panel, when he describes his father's "physical" makeup in the most unflattering light possible, that he could be said to be "nasty".

But everything he says is true. When did the definition of "nasty" become "revealing unpleasant truths"?

The only times that Roy actually insults his father is when he calls him a "self-absorbed, arrogant jerk"-- all of which is documentable, even in the comic-- and says he'd violently reject any further obligation by shoving it up his father's "wrinkled, incorporeal ass"-- which Eugene's ass presumably is (wrinkled, that is, we know it's incorporeal).

I mean, no one wants to be told about their negative qualities, but we all have them, and it's not "nasty" to tell a self-absorbed jerk that they're a self-absorbed jerk-- even if you're mad at them, it's still just the truth, any more than it's "nasty" to explicitly tell someone, "I don't like you". As long as that's all you do, of course.

It's classic disfunctional family-- telling the truth becomes "bad"/the greatest sin. I'm glad for Roy to be coming out of that, and I'm glad to see him untangling his responsibilities as a fighter and leader from his father's expectations. I am looking forward to everyone getting back to kicking some hobgoblin butt, though. They could all use letting off some steam, anyway.

Nikolai_II
2006-03-14, 08:08 AM
Er. Reacing negatively to someone totally manipulating you and your friends to the point where you or your friends could have died and telling them how wrong they were, if rather vociferously, but /still doing the right thing and agreeing to it to save lives/ is CN?

Wow. I wouldn't want to play in your games. Do your paladins act like the Care Bears or something?

It sure qualifies as CG just as well as it does LG, and any neutral alignment can also act like that (but might be more likely to internally equate 'the world' with 'my friends')

SigilSigul
2006-03-14, 08:41 AM
Er, what? I was referring to:


At least any Lawful Good characters that would prefer to be Chaotic Neutral

The implication being that doing what Roy did is more CN than LG--'any LG that would prefer to be CN'. If that's not what you meant, that's something, but nice moving of the goalposts after the fact.

Lasombra
2006-03-14, 09:20 AM
I wonder if his dads ass would really be wrinkled, if he's incorporeal... wouldnt it consist of ectoplasm and therefore be sticky?

:P

hehhhe

i think i've followed belkar with the "craft: Disturbing Mental Image"

Overlord Jack Chainer
2006-03-14, 09:30 AM
Sumed up...You got told old man! hahaha indeed another fantastic comic.

*whispered* heh wrinkled a** *whispered*

Sundog
2006-03-14, 10:09 AM
Is it just me, or has Haley been more eloquent while effectively mute than when she was talking? I think she's been using her vocality as much to hide her true feelings and attitudes as to express them, and now we're seeing her "unmasked".

AnimeHeretic
2006-03-14, 10:18 AM
Now there's one good example how a Lawful Good character should behave!!
I don't think any LG would tolerate Balkar's antics the way Roy does. As a humor comic, it's fine to see Balkar behave as he does. But if Roy is going to condemn his father, Shojo and Miko as he does for hypocrisy, he needs to take a good look at himself first.

I can see Roy as Chaotic Good though.

Ironfang
2006-03-14, 10:28 AM
Loved the facial expressions - awesome job.

Albion
2006-03-14, 10:39 AM
I'm not so sure I want Haley to start talking again yet, after all. :D She seems to be more and more able to carry her own weight and fill her part in the comic even without. Tee hee.

...and I see many others seem to have been thinking about the same thing.

pita
2006-03-14, 11:36 AM
Roy is becoming the official teller-offer of the group. I know someone in real life who has that actual job. It's why i learn in a "special" school! ;)
I say that he's going to kill Xykon by telling him off.
(Unspoilerised so the Giant doesn't do that, because if he did, he would be the dumbest man on earth.

Alfryd
2006-03-14, 11:46 AM
He may be doing the right thing in saving the world, but I don't think Roy has been a very nice person recently. He seems to be full of anger and apt to lash out at people. He even was kinda harsh on Hinjo.
I am also skeptical that Roy has more than a mediocre cha score.

...dragged halfway across the continent for a mock trial to get him on a job he would've accepted in the first place...
I think the arrest charges were more neccesary in order to explain the Snarl backplot, which Shojo could not otherwise reveal to him without threatening his own leadership of the Sapphire Guard.

Thing is, Roy was actually *pleased* at the thought his father might have arranged to have him dragged to Azure City in chains purely to congratulate him. But he's furious at the thought it was in order to send him after Xykon and preserve the gates- a legitimate threat to the safety of the world. And he *doesn't* actually know that his dad insisted on his arrest before hearing the Snarl backplot, so that accusation of his is unfounded. Someone is definitely being inconsistent- unlawful- and overwrought here.

I don't think any LG would tolerate Balkar's antics the way Roy does. As a humor comic, it's fine to see Balkar behave as he does. But if Roy is going to condemn his father, Shojo and Miko as he does for hypocrisy, he needs to take a good look at himself first.
Correct.

Think about what it would be like to grow up with Eugene Greenhilt as your actual father. You would learn pretty quickly that any display of genuine emotion or caring was apt to be stepped on with a sarcastic insult. You might also learn that the only way to get someone to pay attention to you is with harsh language.
I shall have to file that away somewhere.


Roy's chauvinistic attitude toward Miko only got adjusted when something relatively severe happened to him.
Unfortunately, this was then transmuted into a vindictive attitude.

Like Miko?
Exactly.

Lawful Evil bends or subverts the law. Without breaking it...
That depends on the variant of LE.

Well, I consider this. Things haven't gone well for Roy for almost 100 strips. He's been...
Of course, many of those things were at least partially his own damn fault.

Oh, lord. Wouldn't that be the perfect magic item.
Roy: +4 to dex, so he can take initiative and avoid a heavy beating at critical junctures.
Durkon: +4 to cha, so he can pursuade his team-mates and turn undead a little more reliably.
Belkar: +4 to wis, as it transforms him into a being of almost beatific grace able to cast spells.
Vaarsuvius: +4 to con, for the sake of more effective concentration, fort saves and combat longevity.
Elan: +4 to int, so that he may actually represent a greater threat to his foes than his comrades.
Haley: +4 to str, lest she find herself unexpectedly in melee combat or needing to carry heavy objects.
All in favour?


They will be back. The end to this sequence is near, and then there will be a nice dose of comedy for a good while.
That seems fair. Yet I am filled a strange trepidation...

Daavi_Tues
2006-03-14, 11:47 AM
I knew it. Yup. I told you so.

It'd turn into a soap.

eheins
2006-03-14, 12:04 PM
Sidenote: Eugene hasn't even mentioned Julia, he's just been going on about Xykon. Either he really doesn't know his daughter is in danger, or he just doesn't care about his children beyond their usefulness for his Blood Vengeance.

Eugene doesn't know about Julia's kidnapping, he's been stuck in a summoning circle since right after the gate was destroyed.

leoaxt
2006-03-14, 12:09 PM
Good one.

Illsbane
2006-03-14, 12:29 PM
He did, but the spell failed. He said that to Roy in Origins - no doubt making Roy feel even less wanted than before.

O_O ... -_-* Good grief! Eugene Greenhilt is basically Al Bundy with a tan and a spellbook! He's even a complete failure at his life's goal! - he never managed to find Xykon, whereas his supposedly stupid son did.

Illsbane
2006-03-14, 12:33 PM
Eugene doesn't know about Julia's kidnapping, he's been stuck in a summoning circle since right after the gate was destroyed.

Yeah, this occurred to me sometime after I'd posted ... Too bad. Still, I wonder whether the jerk'd care if he did know.

...

I also wonder if, when he decides to leave the circle, the Archons will just bung him down to the Lower Planes.

KaosDevice
2006-03-14, 12:43 PM
I've said it before, I like angry Roy. He's been in tell off mode for awhile now and I think it is a good thing. There's only so many indignities a person can take before they start snappin' you know? Plus Eugene always annoyed me a little.

theKOT
2006-03-14, 02:21 PM
Besides, I think this comic was great -- first time a player character reacts normal. Hell, they all get tricked and influenced and driven into fishy sideplots by NPC. It was about time someone spoke up!
Eh? Roy's been whining since 251 "Stupid railroad plot", he kept whining in 263 "Because me, I've had enough of this plotline". So really, there has been a lot of speaking up.

But what's kinda confusing me about this thread is that a number of people have expressed concern/upset that Roy was "nasty".

Not quite seeing it... in the first 4 panels of his speech, Roy is sticking to fact, and factual evaluation (of his father being selfish, which I am more than willing to assume that Roy not only has enough data to judge, but is competent to judge, at least in this case). It's not until the 5th panel, when he "insults" his father, and the 6th panel, when he describes his father's "physical" makeup in the most unflattering light possible, that he could be said to be "nasty".

But everything he says is true. When did the definition of "nasty" become "revealing unpleasant truths"?

The only times that Roy actually insults his father is when he calls him a "self-absorbed, arrogant jerk"-- all of which is documentable, even in the comic-- and says he'd violently reject any further obligation by shoving it up his father's "wrinkled, incorporeal ass"-- which Eugene's ass presumably is (wrinkled, that is, we know it's incorporeal).

I mean, no one wants to be told about their negative qualities, but we all have them, and it's not "nasty" to tell a self-absorbed jerk that they're a self-absorbed jerk-- even if you're mad at them, it's still just the truth, any more than it's "nasty" to explicitly tell someone, "I don't like you". As long as that's all you do, of course.

It's classic disfunctional family-- telling the truth becomes "bad"/the greatest sin. I'm glad for Roy to be coming out of that, and I'm glad to see him untangling his responsibilities as a fighter and leader from his father's expectations. I am looking forward to everyone getting back to kicking some hobgoblin butt, though. They could all use letting off some steam, anyway. Yes, the point is that this is a classical dysfunctional family, because they can't communicate except through hurting each other. Sometimes it is all about how you say it. Starting out with a "Screw you" isn't any way to convince someone. Continuing on to insult and humiliate someone in public really will take away from the heart of your message. All his attitude did was lessen the chance that Eugene would actually think about what he said.

Look at the Miko thing, for example. Sure, she was in the wrong and everything Roy said was true, but he threw in harsh language and insults which enraged her and simply made everything worse.

Now lets look at Belkar. Roy's seen him harvest kidney's, kill surrendering goblins, and heard him talk about slitting the throats of prisoners. But what is the worst thing Roy does to belkar? Give him a stern look or threaten him. You can trace this pattern of behavior all the way back to Origin. Roy is simply to lazy to deal with mass-murdering psycho, but if you really annoy or inconvenience Roy, well then he takes action!


However, all of this makes for one heckuva entertaining comic. Encore!!!

Vampire_Boy
2006-03-14, 03:06 PM
Yada, yada, yada, much? Can't some of you just get over the simple fact that for all his faults we like Roy far, far more than Miko? Geez, talk about sour grapes. ::)

Kish
2006-03-14, 03:23 PM
I think the arrest charges were more neccesary in order to explain the Snarl backplot, which Shojo could not otherwise reveal to him without threatening his own leadership of the Sapphire Guard.
[...]
And he *doesn't* actually know that his dad insisted on his arrest before hearing the Snarl backplot, so that accusation of his is unfounded.
I don't see how these two statements can be reconciled. If Lord Shojo could tell Eugene without putting him on trial, he could just have taken Roy somewhere private and told him, too. He could definitely have given Miko a sealed envelope, with strict orders not to open it, which contained the information that Xykon is still alive and Roy needed to come to Azure City to talk to Eugene Greenhilt. It would have been easy enough for the letter to contain information only someone in touch with Eugene would know. He chose to use coercion instead, and in the process he placed the lives of the six members of the Order and Miko in completely unnecessary jeopardy.

theKOT
2006-03-14, 03:25 PM
Yada, yada, yada, much? Can't some of you just get over the simple fact that for all his faults we like Roy far, far more than Miko? Geez, talk about sour grapes. ::)
Oh, I accept that. It really is understandable. There are no sour grapes here. I wasn't saying Miko was good or bad, just that what Roy said did nothing to improve her. I'm just saying that Roy does have faults while some people claim he has none, or rather that he was completely justified in everything he said to his dad. I like to debate with long, point by point discussions. Can't you just accept that?

Hawkeye
2006-03-14, 03:35 PM
jeez, looks like you can't say the word "miko" without someone telling you your taking a fanatical pro/anti miko statement.

edit: grammar is so overrated...

spectralphoenix
2006-03-14, 03:35 PM
He chose to use coercion instead, and in the process he placed the lives of the six members of the Order and Miko in completely unnecessary jeopardy.

Let's not forget the prison guard too. If the order hadn't been imprisoned, he wouldn't have died.

Hyrael
2006-03-14, 04:03 PM
It sure qualifies as CG just as well as it does LG, and any neutral alignment can also act like that (but might be more likely to internally equate 'the world' with 'my friends')

no, 'the world' also stands for 'me.' the thing about saving the world is that it invariably includes the bit you happen to be standing on. thats how you get alot of antiheroes (Toshiro Umezawa, for example).

so, even the most self-serving jerk will, if they have the ability to do so, try to save the world for purely selfish reasons.


Let's not forget the prison guard too. If the order hadn't been imprisoned, he wouldn't have died.
Yes, but he was a nameless mook (1st level warrior with ranks in craft [flower arranging]). he doesnt matter. adventurers go through dozens like him every day.

Steward
2006-03-14, 04:27 PM
Yes, but he was a nameless mook (1st level warrior with ranks in craft [flower arranging]). he doesnt matter. adventurers go through dozens like him every day.

Yes, but he could have reached Venerable age if they had just told Roy what was going on. He is Lawful Good; he would have taken up the quest if they had just asked him. The whole court case was a waste of innocent lives. I just hope that no one tells the lawyers what happened. Celia's first case wasn't a victory at all if it was rigged to happen that way from the start. Poor paralemental...

Freeman333
2006-03-14, 04:30 PM
Isn't it an Oath of Blood Vengeance?


Or a Vengeance of Bloody Oathiness? An Oath of Blood, Blood, Blood, Vengeance, and Blood? A Bath of Old Gan-Veenance? I could keep this up all day. (For some reason I won't, though.)

Edit: Oh, right, I actually have something of value to add. I was touched by Haley's loyalty throughout this strip. She is, obviously, pleased when Roy begins to tell his father exactly where he can shove his plot hooks, and appears supportive as Roy decries the series of events which have brought him and his party to the point at which this "job offer" is being extended. She, like Eugene, seems to be fooled into thinking that Roy is going to reject the offer categorically, and is 100% behind him on this.

Thus, her expression of shock when Roy reveals that, despite feeling misused by the entire situation, he intends to take the quest simply to eliminate the threat that Xykon poses. (Very noble of you, Roy. I applaud you.) Clearly, she wasn't expecting Roy to reverse directions like that--and unlike Eugene, who simply seems stunned by the venom of his son's outburst and surprised that, despite the venom, Roy is going to do what he asked him to do anyway, Haley seems more horrified. Understandably so--she will be put at great personal risk if she chooses to accompany Roy on this quest (a fact for which we have no guarantee, but the Law of Plot demands that, will she or nill she, Haley will probably be dragged along at some point) and, unlike Roy, she has no clear sense of personal duty towards the world (though she is, of course, occupied by an entirely different sense of personal duty (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=131)).

And yet, in the end, she sides with Roy enough to take one final, parting shot at Eugene. That raspberry speaks volumes, for all that it's a simple gesture of disrespect: "So there," Miss Starshine is saying, "even though you put him down and call him stupid, even though you act like a total jerk and basically sabotage any chance you might have had of getting him to fulfill your quest willingly, even though you've driven him to distraction with your needlessly convoluted plotting and manipulation--despite all the reasons he has to tell you to go artifically inseminate yourself, Roy--my leader--my FRIEND--is going to take the quest anyway, just to SPITE you, and thus he has proven he has more honor, valor, bravery, nobility, heroism, and grace in his upraised middle finger than you've got in your whole incorporeal ectoplasmic body. So there, jerkwad. So there."

Brava, bravo, bravissimo, Haley. That's sticking (*ahem*) it to him.

metalphil
2006-03-14, 05:13 PM
Or a Vengeance of Bloody Oathiness? An Oath of Blood, Blood, Blood, Vengeance, and Blood? A Bath of Old Gan-Veenance? I could keep this up all day. (For some reason I won't, though.)

Actually, I wasn't kidding. In the OtOotPCs it's an Oath of Blood Vegeance on page 32. ;)

[edit on the Alignment Argument]Roy: "Now, my father is nothing if not lawful and would never lie. Since you, sir, are in fact speaking to me at this time, I must naturally conclude that you are a doppleganger." OtOotPCs p. 30

It just so happened I stumbled on something useful in my re-re-re-re-re-reading of that book. ;)

Zeekar
2006-03-14, 05:38 PM
So, why does Eugene refer to Xykon's phylactery as a "thingamajobber"? Does the master Illusionist really not know what one is, or is he just trying not to confuse his poor dumb Fighter son with technical magic-speak? :)

TinSoldier
2006-03-14, 05:48 PM
Why does everyone expect Eugene and V to know about phylacteries?

Magic is supposed to be mysterious and spoooky. Even those that have studied it for as along as V has don't know every little secret. I imagine within magic-using circles (no pun intended) necromantic magics and lich-making are very closely guarded secrets.

Sure, the characters know what's in the game books for humor, but lets not take the mystery out of magic!

SteveMB
2006-03-14, 06:17 PM
I don't see how these two statements can be reconciled. If Lord Shojo could tell Eugene without putting him on trial, he could just have taken Roy somewhere private and told him, too. He could definitely have given Miko a sealed envelope, with strict orders not to open it, which contained the information that Xykon is still alive and Roy needed to come to Azure City to talk to Eugene Greenhilt. It would have been easy enough for the letter to contain information only someone in touch with Eugene would know. He chose to use coercion instead, and in the process he placed the lives of the six members of the Order and Miko in completely unnecessary jeopardy.
I get the impression that Shojo tends to think in terms of clever (sometimes too clever) misdirection, even when being straightforward might work better (e.g. he decided to play the senile fool rather than simply trying to improve security). Some people are just wired that way, I think.

SteveMB
2006-03-14, 06:20 PM
Why does everyone expect Eugene and V to know about phylacteries?

Magic is supposed to be mysterious and spoooky. Even those that have studied it for as along as V has don't know every little secret. I imagine within magic-using circles (no pun intended) necromantic magics and lich-making are very closely guarded secrets.
True, but if anybody knows it would be someone who 1)has a lich as a sworn enemy and 2)thinks that brains always trump brawn.

I'm inclined to agree with Zeekar's suggestion that he was patronizing Roy (again) by not using big fancy words that a mere fighter can't be expected to understand.

sun_tzu
2006-03-14, 06:26 PM
I agree with the sentiments some of the people here have expressed...How on Earth could Eugene have ended up in the Upper Planes? Everything we've seen of him, and everything said here by the Giant, seems to indicate he is neutral at best...

TinSoldier
2006-03-14, 06:30 PM
True, but if anybody knows it would be someone who 1)has a lich as a sworn enemy and 2)thinks that brains always trump brawn. There's an obvious possibility that I forgot to think of. ::)


I'm inclined to agree with Zeekar's suggestion that he was patronizing Roy (again) by not using big fancy words that a mere fighter can't be expected to understand.
I don't know... I think Eugene believes that fighters are dumb and that Roy is too smart to be one. (I haven't received my copy of OtOoPCs yet). I think Eugene just said it that way because that's they way Eugene is.

Soul_Selim
2006-03-14, 06:35 PM
A fact for which we have no guarantee, but the Law of Plot demands that, will she or nill she, Haley will probably be dragged along at some point.


And the Point here http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=139 Shows that she is still stuck with Roy anyway. 'Xykon is destroyed Once and For All!' Soo... Good Plot devise, Giant.

Edit: Oh, I did Edit out the rest of the Long Post for the Meat and Potatos for my reply.

humanpylon
2006-03-14, 06:37 PM
I'm trying to decided which is cuter, Haley's raspberry in this comic or when she hugs Roy after he tells off Miko.

theKOT
2006-03-14, 07:03 PM
Or a Vengeance of Bloody Oathiness? An Oath of Blood, Blood, Blood, Vengeance, and Blood? A Bath of Old Gan-Veenance? I could keep this up all day. (For some reason I won't, though.)

Edit: Oh, right, I actually have something of value to add. I was touched by Haley's loyalty throughout this strip. She is, obviously, pleased when Roy begins to tell his father exactly where he can shove his plot hooks, and appears supportive as Roy decries the series of events which have brought him and his party to the point at which this "job offer" is being extended. She, like Eugene, seems to be fooled into thinking that Roy is going to reject the offer categorically, and is 100% behind him on this.

Thus, her expression of shock when Roy reveals that, despite feeling misused by the entire situation, he intends to take the quest simply to eliminate the threat that Xykon poses. (Very noble of you, Roy. I applaud you.) Clearly, she wasn't expecting Roy to reverse directions like that--and unlike Eugene, who simply seems stunned by the venom of his son's outburst and surprised that, despite the venom, Roy is going to do what he asked him to do anyway, Haley seems more horrified. Understandably so--she will be put at great personal risk if she chooses to accompany Roy on this quest (a fact for which we have no guarantee, but the Law of Plot demands that, will she or nill she, Haley will probably be dragged along at some point) and, unlike Roy, she has no clear sense of personal duty towards the world (though she is, of course, occupied by an entirely different sense of personal duty (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=131)).

And yet, in the end, she sides with Roy enough to take one final, parting shot at Eugene. That raspberry speaks volumes, for all that it's a simple gesture of disrespect: "So there," Miss Starshine is saying, "even though you put him down and call him stupid, even though you act like a total jerk and basically sabotage any chance you might have had of getting him to fulfill your quest willingly, even though you've driven him to distraction with your needlessly convoluted plotting and manipulation--despite all the reasons he has to tell you to go artifically inseminate yourself, Roy--my leader--my FRIEND--is going to take the quest anyway, just to SPITE you, and thus he has proven he has more honor, valor, bravery, nobility, heroism, and grace in his upraised middle finger than you've got in your whole incorporeal ectoplasmic body. So there, jerkwad. So there."

Brava, bravo, bravissimo, Haley. That's sticking (*ahem*) it to him.
Wow. You do realize that is entirely your impression of what Haley meant? I took Haley to be saying "Yeah, you jerk!" More than a long complicated speech about how great Roy is.
Roy originally took the quest to spite his Father, now he is taking the quest to save the world.

Tawkis
2006-03-14, 08:28 PM
I don't know, I think it's just his being a donkey's hole.
I will happily concede that point.



I am also skeptical that Roy has more than a mediocre cha score.
I think the arrest charges were more neccesary in order to explain the Snarl backplot, which Shojo could not otherwise reveal to him without threatening his own leadership of the Sapphire Guard.

As stated before Shinjo could have used other methods. That put them at far less risk, however they also would have been far more boring.



Thing is, Roy was actually *pleased* at the thought his father might have arranged to have him dragged to Azure City in chains purely to congratulate him. But he's furious at the thought it was in order to send him after Xykon and preserve the gates- a legitimate threat to the safety of the world. And he *doesn't* actually know that his dad insisted on his arrest before hearing the Snarl backplot, so that accusation of his is unfounded. Someone is definitely being inconsistent- unlawful- and overwrought here.

This I think is unfair. Roy has by all accounts received very little in support from his father. The fact is that for one moment Roy felt that his father cared enough to show appreciation to his son for a job well done. Instead of waiting for Roy's afterlife his father moved heaven and earth to say:
"Well done son, you've saved my honor yadda yadda."
If you've had demanding parents think back to what their praise meant when you did finally earn it... Roy isn't being selfish at all, he's being astoundingly normal.
Instead Eugene is participating in this for SELFISH reasons. He moved heaven and earth to tell Roy that "you screwed up". The threat to the world means far less to him than Xykon. Eugene isn't sending him to save the gates. He's sending him after Xykon.
"This gate thing of his is the perfect way to find that miserable cretin and destroy him." Not the words of concern for the future of the world.
If Xykon was threatening to make pie without sugar and the LG was threatening the gates Eugene would tell Roy to go after Xykon.
Roy has done nothing wrong in putting dear old dad in his place.

Zeekar
2006-03-14, 09:34 PM
Magic is supposed to be mysterious and spoooky.
Sure, the characters know what's in the game books for humor, but lets not take the mystery out of magic!

I don't think that's true. We've seen time and again that in the OOTS world, magic is commonplace and even, much to V's chagrin, taken for granted. It occupies the same niche as high technology in the real world - absolutely amazing when you stop to think about it, but most of the time you don't (and thereby risk the eruption of Mount Vaarsuvius a la Origin.)

I don't expect every magic user to know every detail of every aspect of magic - obviously there are specialties and levels of knowledge. Plus, the details of lich-hood (lichery?) might be more of a topic for clerics than wizards, since clerics specialize in dealing with the undead. But I'd still expect someone as high-level as Eugene, who had past very-personal encounters with a lich, to know the proper term for a phylactery.

Nightmarenny
2006-03-14, 10:10 PM
Thing is, Roy was actually *pleased* at the thought his father might have arranged to have him dragged to Azure City in chains purely to congratulate him. But he's furious at the thought it was in order to send him after Xykon and preserve the gates- a legitimate threat to the safety of the world. And he *doesn't* actually know that his dad insisted on his arrest before hearing the Snarl backplot, so that accusation of his is unfounded. Someone is definitely being inconsistent- unlawful- and overwrought here.
Correct.
I shall have to file that away somewhere.

Cheack Roys state3ment again. He mentions that his father didn't do it for good reason but only for vengence. That is one of the things the Roy is mad about. The world is endangered and all he can think about is petty vengence.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-14, 11:12 PM
And the Point here http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=139 Shows that she is still stuck with Roy anyway. 'Xykon is destroyed Once and For All!' Soo... Good Plot devise, Giant.

You know, I'm actually kind of hoping that Roy tries to go it alone, and the others *choose* to join up with him. Durkon would def. be in, of course, and probably V. due to curiosity in the gates. But the rest? I don't expect the party to break up, but it'd be nice if Roy didn't try to strong-arm everyone.

Steward
2006-03-14, 11:16 PM
You know, I'm actually kind of hoping that Roy tries to go it alone, and the others *choose* to join up with him. Durkon would def. be in, of course, and probably V. due to curiosity in the gates. But the rest? I don't expect the party to break up, but it'd be nice if Roy didn't try to strong-arm everyone.

He doesn't strong-arm them. They go on their own volition. All three of the spellcasters are predisposed towards going with him. (One of them is honorbound, one of them is curious, and one of them is stupidly loyal.) Haley will probably go because she respects Roy. I'm worried about Mr. Bitterleaf, however. He's still in jail and has no one to represent him. He could summon Jones/Rodriguez again but somehow I don't think that they'll come back after they were humiliated like that.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-14, 11:20 PM
Yeah, this occurred to me sometime after I'd posted ... Too bad. Still, I wonder whether the jerk'd care if he did know.

I suspect he would. I really do think he genuinely cares about Roy, even if he doesn't say it (or act like it), just like Roy actually does care about his father. Otherwise, they wouldn't put the effort into hurting one another.

Brasswatchman
2006-03-14, 11:23 PM
I'm trying to decided which is cuter, Haley's raspberry in this comic or when she hugs Roy after he tells off Miko.

Hug. Def. the hug.

Delgarde
2006-03-15, 05:08 AM
I'm worried about Mr. Bitterleaf, however. He's still in jail and has no one to represent him.

Actually, I imagine that's probably the incentive you're looking for - be released into Roy's custody, or face a real trial.

Delgarde
2006-03-15, 05:19 AM
Understandably so--she will be put at great personal risk if she chooses to accompany Roy on this quest

Yes, but I don't think that concerns her too much - she deliberately chose the high-risk life of an adventurer in order to gain the rewards that go along with that risk. Taking risks for gold is the path she's chosen for herself, so she faces those risks with open eyes, more than most of the others do.

Alfryd
2006-03-15, 05:29 AM
If Lord Shojo could tell Eugene without putting him on trial, he could just have taken Roy somewhere private and told him, too.
Except that if one of the OotS were to inadvertantly mention the matter to the Snarl to one of the Paladins, they'd know someone in the SG had told Roy & Co., and Shojo would feel the heat pretty shortly. The circumstances of the trial allowed him to tell Roy and have it look legitimate. Eugene, on the other hand, is less likely to blab what he knows, as it's not in his interests.

He could definitely have given Miko a sealed envelope, with strict orders not to open it, which contained the information that Xykon is still alive and Roy needed to come to Azure City to talk to Eugene Greenhilt.
Ah, but then this might be later interpreted by Miko or other SG members as Shojo deliberately asking adventurers to seek out the other gates, whatever the pretext invoked, and thus threaten his leadership. I would agree Shojo should, on balance, have been willing to risk this much for the sake of avoiding the OotS' mistreatment.

This I think is unfair. Roy has by all accounts received very little in support from his father...
However understandable the emotional reaction, this does not justify the response.

Instead Eugene is participating in this for SELFISH reasons. He moved heaven and earth to tell Roy that "you screwed up"...

He mentions that his father didn't do it for good reason but only for vengence.
Check my statement again. Roy has no reason to suppose this was the case. There is no definite evidence that this was his sole motive.

Nikolai_II
2006-03-15, 05:56 AM
Er, what? I was referring to:


The implication being that doing what Roy did is more CN than LG--'any LG that would prefer to be CN'. If that's not what you meant, that's something, but nice moving of the goalposts after the fact.


That part was a referral to the recent alignment article in http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060210a as well as still being a rebuttal of "This is pure LG", which is what the poster said.

My implication would be that people who say that Roy's acts were pure LG would be the same kind of people who would argue that they could play egotistical, vain, bloodthirsty and greedy Paladins of Heironeous. Sure, one flaw or two doesn't preclude being LG, but somewhere along the line there is a limit, no?

Vampire_Boy
2006-03-15, 07:22 AM
However understandable the emotional reaction, this does not justify the response.

What exactly is your gripe with Roy's response, to whom must he justify himself to, anyway?

Crayon_the_Prophet
2006-03-15, 08:01 AM
I may have come in late to the conversation but...

I liked Roy's response to his dad. I thought it was a good representation of a lawful good character. My group has been playing lawful good characters like Shiko (excuse spelling). "I am LG and therefore I can be judge, jury and executioner".

Alignment has always been one of those philosophical debates in role playing.

Grandpa Crayon

Crayon_the_Prophet
2006-03-15, 08:12 AM
[quote author=Grandpa Crayon My group has been playing lawful good characters like Shiko (excuse spelling). "I am LG and therefore I can be judge, jury and executioner".


[/quote]

Sorry,

I meant Miko. You know, the girl with the thing, that does that thing. The one with the hair.

Gaming senility is a silent killer.

Grandpa Crayon

Sc00by
2006-03-15, 08:25 AM
You could've used the edit button? ::)

Anyway. I LOVED this strip, just for the final scene. Nothing says "you got pwed" like a :P ;)

Alfryd
2006-03-15, 09:13 AM
What exactly is your gripe with Roy's response, to whom must he justify himself to, anyway?
I'm uncertain both of us understands what the other is saying. My gripe was that he was inconsistent and overwrought, and the question is more whether this could be justified in the abstract sense.
Anyways.

Silverblaze
2006-03-15, 10:29 AM
I don't know whether it's been covered, but I LOVE Roy's simple "Don't" reply in the very first pic to his father's "Well technically..." *GG* Don't go down that road again, Old man ;D

Gary_Schaper
2006-03-15, 10:40 AM
He doesn't strong-arm them. They go on their own volition.
Technically speaking, the original quest to destroy Xykon was never completed, so some may decide that they are still committed for that reason.


I'm worried about Mr. Bitterleaf, however. He's still in jail and has no one to represent him. He could summon Jones/Rodriguez again but somehow I don't think that they'll come back after they were humiliated like that.
I think it would foolish of Mr. Rodriguez to defend Belkar after being assaulted by Belkar.

On the other hand, Mr. Rodriguez is, indeed, a fool.

luilupino
2006-03-15, 10:40 AM
I'm telling you guys .. Roy is going to the dark side of the force..

theKOT
2006-03-15, 11:52 AM
Does that mean there's hope for him and Miko yet?

Freeman333
2006-03-15, 01:01 PM
Wow. You do realize that is entirely your impression of what Haley meant?



Well...duh. Who else's impression could it be? No, seriously, I thought somebody else's impressions were somehow making their way into my head and being typed onto my keyboard. ::)

(Interestingly, that's one of the symptoms of some forms of Dissociative Schizophrenia--the conviction that your thoughts are actually being broadcast into your head from an outside source. That's your Psychology Fun Fact for the day, kids!)

theKOT
2006-03-15, 01:04 PM
Actually, I meant that it had no basis in fact as there is no evidence that she meant it that way. I also think common sense would say that she is just saying "so there" with er raspberry. Raspberries aren't usually deep statements about your friend.

Deuce
2006-03-15, 01:52 PM
So, why does Eugene refer to Xykon's phylactery as a "thingamajobber"? Does the master Illusionist really not know what one is, or is he just trying not to confuse his poor dumb Fighter son with technical magic-speak? :)


Maybe Necromancy is one of his prohibited schools? In fact, depending on how far back (D&D Versions wise) his adventuring days go, he may have had to have Necromancy be prohibited.

Bruendor_Cavescout
2006-03-15, 02:41 PM
I like to think it's because nobody can spell/pronounce phylcaty...phylumter...phyllisdiller...

Um...that gem thingee the black corrupted soul of a lich goes into.

Kish
2006-03-15, 02:42 PM
Phylactery. :P




Maybe Necromancy is one of his prohibited schools?
Extremely likely, since [spoiler for OtOoPCs]Roy comments that Divination is one, and by 3.0 rules it's pointless for an illusionist to bar one of Divination and Necromancy without also barring the other.

thatwolfguy
2006-03-15, 03:42 PM
I'd go easy on Roy. Diplomacy is a cross-class skill and chr is a dump stat for fighters.

well said - not only is that comment true and not only does it really explain a lot, but also made me snort.

The_Weirdo
2006-03-15, 04:00 PM
well said - not only is that comment true and not only does it really explain a lot, but also made me snort.

You see, Miko didn't go from LG to LN in my book because she's rude. She went down because she applied her own very skewed interpretation of the gods' will.

That being said, I'll say that: Being rude doesn't make you any less LG. Especially being rude to a guy that risked your life AND the lives of your friends for a shot at an old nemesis. His rudeness wasn't LG in and of itself. It was a very Neutral reaction, of someone that got messed with and, thus, reacted. Roy's decision to still go after the lich is LG, though. And LG can be Neutral, even most of the time. Or else they'd not survive long. There's more than one way to be LG, and not all of them are by becoming an Ilmater's witness and taking every sort of abuse with a cheerful grin. Lawful Good isn't Lawful Stupid, and Roy has plenty of reasons to react that way. Was Roy's reaction Lawful, or Good? No. But it wasn't even close to Evil, and LG people don't become any less LG by acting Neutral every once in a while.

Peptuck
2006-03-15, 05:27 PM
Yo. Long time reader, first-time poster. Woot. The Giant is the awesome win, the comic is awesome, yadda yadda. Same stuff that's been herd a billion times over the last fifteen plus pages, and all of its true, too.

Anyway.

I find myself very strongly sympathizing with Roy here. I find his reaction to be completely reasonable. I mean, here's his dad, who's been razzing on him even after death about his choices in life, insulting him mercilessly for not knowing obscure arcane knowledge you'd need ranks in Spellcraft to know, and then turned around and freely admitted to conspiring to have a mean bitch of a paladin come up, attack him and his party - twice - drag him south against his will in chains, put him on trial for the weaking of the universe's fabris, and then turn around again and reveal it was all a sham to get him down there to save the universe without getting some paladins rankled and bothered, and then discover that the whole shindig is all about getting revenge for his father for a man Roy never knew.

I don't know about everyone else, but if I was Roy, and I had just gone through that for my own disrespectful father's vengeance, I'd be a bit pissed off too.

So, go Roy! Whoo!

Freeman333
2006-03-15, 05:31 PM
Actually, I meant that it had no basis in fact as there is no evidence that she meant it that way. I also think common sense would say that she is just saying "so there" with er raspberry. Raspberries aren't usually deep statements about your friend.

It has basis in fact insofar as it is an opinion based upon the comic, which, factually, exists (I won't get into various theories of subjective vs. objective reality). A raspberry is an expression, and can have as much or as little meaning as you want it to mean (take the upraised middle finger in American culture, for instance).

As for common sense, it's like a communal toilet: sure, it's there if you really need it, but I'd just as soon have one all to myself.

Tawkis
2006-03-15, 06:12 PM
However understandable the emotional reaction, this does not justify the response.
There's nothing to show that Roy would not have later said "While I appreciate the effort you went through to thank me, your methods were poorly chosen." In fact Roy's character thus far leans to him pointing that fact out after awhile. There's nothing wrong with being pleased by a parent thanking you, it's not evil or chaotic. For that matter it's not good or lawful either.


Check my statement again. Roy has no reason to suppose this was the case. There is no definite evidence that this was his sole motive.
Ahem: Eugene Greenhilt "The deal I made with Shojo was if he gets you down here, I would get you to work for him. This gate thing of his is the perfect way to find that miserable cretin and destroy him."

As Roy stated Eugene didn't know about the gates until Shojo told him. Eugenes wording strongly indicates that he sees the gates as less important than the destruction of Xykon. The gates to Eugene are simply a way to find Xykon.
Also is the fact that Roy presumably knows his father quite well, and is in a fairly good position to judge his character.

Alfryd
2006-03-15, 06:39 PM
There's nothing to show that Roy would not have later said "While I appreciate the effort you went through to thank me, your methods were poorly chosen."
Which would explain why he's more upset about a non-frivolous reason how?

There's nothing wrong with being pleased by a parent thanking you...
And nothing wrong with being upset over being dragged over half a continent in chains by one. But doing both is inconsistent.

As Roy stated Eugene didn't know about the gates until Shojo told him.
As I stated, Roy doesn't know that, as we've been witness to the entire conversation thus far.

Eugene's wording strongly indicates that he sees the gates as less important than the destruction of Xykon.
Which hardly implies he would have been willing to coerce Roy on that basis alone. Beside which, the Gates themselves are harmless, Xykon is the threat to global security.

Roy presumably knows his father quite well, and is in a fairly good position to judge his character.
Circular reasoning.

Look, I can sympathise with Roy, certainly, but I'm not going to pretend he's being fair-minded, measured and reasonable about the whole business, even if and when it would be unrealistic to expect him to be.

Steward
2006-03-15, 06:51 PM
well said - not only is that comment true and not only does it really explain a lot, but also made me snort.

I agree. Durkon is generally the one who has superhuman patience for every manner of insane idiocy that the world throws at him. Remember, such is his lot in life.

arkwei
2006-03-15, 07:44 PM
Look, I can sympathise with Roy, certainly, but I'm not going to pretend he's being fair-minded, measured and reasonable about the whole business, even if and when it would be unrealistic to expect him to be.

Actually I would say he is being all three, albeit the "measured" part is not very strong.

Fair-minded means "Just and impartial; not prejudiced." Roy is not prejudiced. Manipulating others, as The Book of Vile Darkness indicates, is Evil, because it is even more evil than lying. Knowingly endangering innocents' lives is Evil, as Miko clearly indicates, to Shoujo's face, that she will kill the OOTS. Miko is not guilty b/c she doesn't know the truth, but Shoujo certainly is, and Eugene is the co-planner. Saying "SCREW YOU" to Evil deed is fair game.

About measured-- there are some times that you DON’T NEED to measure. When someone just shows off in front of you that he is being smart to manipulate you and endanger your life just to fulfill his goal, IS there anyway to make him a better person? NO! Eugene will not be actually moved by Roy if Roy said "you could use a better method blah blah blah," rather he would think that his son is easy to manipulate! Maybe he will try to do it again! There is a difference between "caring parent who used a wrong method" and "arrogant jerk who just wants his oath to be fulfilled." In the "caring parent" case, measure is necessary b/c the parent's intention is good. In the "jerk" case, well, you CANNOT do ANYTHING to make a jerk a good parent, so measuring is really unnecessary.
Also, it is probably the right thing to yell at a jerk. If you say something of suggest something to a self-important jerk, he will certainly forget it in three minutes, thinking that the result of manipulating someone is just “being suggested,” that “it is OK to do it”; however, if you yell at him, he might be able to realize that “manipulating others is wrong, and people will REALLY get hurt.”

About reasonable—hey, he almost got killed! It is not like Elan, who puts OOTS into mortal danger now and then b/c he is not smart and did the wrong thing; Roy is manipulated into all this matter by Eugene. It occurs to me that it is certainly very reasonable to yell at someone who tricks you into mortal danger, especially when he should be telling you the truth, as in the father-son relationship. Even in Bushido, in which the loyalty to the lord is the most important thing, the lord cannot use trickery and manipulation to send the samurai to death.

The Giant
2006-03-15, 08:28 PM
Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.

Cobrateen2000
2006-03-15, 08:33 PM
Hey, I had a thought. What if the :P was Haley saying, "Great, now I have to go fight Zykon again, all thanks to you". Just a thought, believe or disbelieve as you wish.

Archonic Energy
2006-03-15, 08:37 PM
Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.

then i suppose i had better go to bed rather than wait up (it's gone half past midnight where i am)

see you in the "morning" then heh heh heh.
yeah like i'm gonna get up before 11:30

Nightfall
2006-03-15, 08:46 PM
Poor Roy. Poor Dad. Two stubborn men who just can't let the barriers down. And the only way they can communicate is to hurt each other. Too much like real life.

Roy may never get that sword fixed. ;)

saraswati
2006-03-15, 08:46 PM
Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.

Trying to pronounce "sppppoky" is almost as hard as trying to pronounce phyla... phyyliaak... piealacatarry, .... uh scary lich regeneraty thingy.

I'll be superpleased to see a comic whenever you are released from your contractual duties. After all, I would hate to see you dragged away by Jones and Roderiguez, esq. If for no other reason than there's already a very hungry squid-thingy sitting in the same dungeon.

TinSoldier
2006-03-15, 08:55 PM
Poor Roy. Poor Dad. Two stubborn men who just can't let the barriers down. And the only way they can communicate is to hurt each other. Too much like real life.

Roy may never get that sword fixed. ;)
That is probably the most insightful comment that I've seen WRT this situation. Thanks for sharing it! To be fair, though, I've seen the same thing with women sometimes.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a really hard time telling people off or hurting them emotionally (Miko) like Roy does. I guess if someone beat me to within a few inches of death a few times (Miko) I wouldn't have the same problem. But I just haven't met that many real jerks in real life that I can't actually reason with. Flies, honey, vinegar and all that.


Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.I guess that means I can rest my refresh finger... ;)

theKOT
2006-03-15, 09:08 PM
Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.
Yaknow Giant, it's actions like that which cause oil prices to be so high. You could have used a candle, but nooooo, you just had to have that oil lamp. For shame, Giant, for shame.

TinSoldier
2006-03-15, 09:33 PM
Yaknow Giant, it's actions like that which cause oil prices to be so high. You could have used a candle, but nooooo, you just had to have that oil lamp. For shame, Giant, for shame.
Actually, the oil in lamps comes from endangered whales, dolphins, porpoises, and non dolphin-safe tuna ;D

(Just kidding! Just kidding!)

theKOT
2006-03-15, 09:44 PM
What other kind of oil is there? No wait, lemme guess, it's some black liquid super-fuel that bursts out of the ground right? Sure, then it flies away on a unicorn!

Zherog
2006-03-15, 09:50 PM
but I have a really hard time telling people off

really? I don't have that problem at all. ;D

geek_2049
2006-03-15, 10:05 PM
I was just checking to see if 294 was up. I reread 293 and well Haley rocked. Go Haley. Roy was cool also.

Hyrael
2006-03-15, 10:15 PM
Comic will be up pretty late today, close midnight. The Sppppoky Wizard has had me burning the midnight oil again.
Well, i for one cant wait to see what the spooky wizard has Rich working on (the Feindish Codex I? Faiths of Eberron? Something even farther in the future?).

as for the comic, All I have to do is stay up till 11:00. As i have said before, there IS a good point ot living in wisconisn.

Take that, Kevin Smith! Most-God-Forsaken-Place-In-The-Universe my ass!*

*watch Dogma. You wont regret it.

TinSoldier
2006-03-15, 10:21 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I have a really hard time telling people off
really? I don't have that problem at all. ;DThat's okay. I know lots of people like that. I'm just not one of them.

Even when one of the people I know who can tell me off really well does so, I'm still usually very diplomatic about it. Unless I've had too much to drink! ;)

ElfLad
2006-03-15, 10:48 PM
Actually, the oil in lamps comes from endangered whales, dolphins, porpoises, and non dolphin-safe tuna ;D

(Just kidding! Just kidding!)

Hey humans rule; dolphins can suck it!

arkwei
2006-03-15, 10:57 PM
...Just a quick new point:

If Eugene cared much, he could've casted a single Sending spell, in which he could demand Roy to come to the south. And I bet Roy would do that if he received the message. If Roy didn't know that he can reply to the Sending spell (Immidiately after the message), Eugenge can simply cast 2 or more. The fact is that he doesn't care.

Bilbo27
2006-03-16, 12:03 AM
as for the comic, All I have to do is stay up till 11:00. As i have said before, there IS a good point ot living in wisconisin


Where in wisconsin does a fellow OOTs follower live. I am in Milwaukee.

Glad to hear from ya.

Guess I gotta wait for the snow and the comic.

theKOT
2006-03-16, 12:13 AM
It's even better to live in Hawii then. Or Alaska. Really, being one hour ahead is not that great.