Zaq
2019-09-22, 02:01 PM
The point of this topic is to generate and discuss a list of game elements that make it a worthwhile choice to spend a standard action in a level-appropriate combat encounter making a skill check. This doesn't have to be useful 100% of the time, but the goal is for the situations to not be super-duper niche or incredibly situational.
The skill check doesn't have to be the ONLY thing you do in the round, but if you're spending your standard action on it (or a full-round action, I suppose), it's likely constituting the lion's share of your contribution that turn. The goal is not to have it just be setting you up for next round unless you've got a payoff that justifies spending two turns on it. (Feinting as a standard action and then making a vanilla sneak attack, for instance, is not especially noteworthy.)
The focus is indeed on combat! Out of combat, it usually doesn't matter how long a skill check takes unless it's measured in hours or days.
The ultimate goal is for this to turn into a resource for characters who don't have strong traditional combat options to be able to slot in some cool skill uses to fill those rounds when their class resources are disappointing. But don't limit yourself just to that mindset. It's okay to include class features and stuff in here.
Don't stress over the "less good" / "more good" designations. That's mostly for my own organizational benefit.
This list is currently fairly stream-of-consciousness. Help is appreciated getting it a bit more organized.
Less Useful Options
Disable Device can be used to sabotage an enemy or can be used ad-hoc to mess with people. This is in the "less good" bucket because it's usually GM-dependent what you can get away with, though I've seen some pretty hilarious stuff when it works.
Sleight of Hand can be used to filch something off of someone, the classic example being stealing a caster's component pouch or holy symbol and therefore curtailing which spells they can cast. Not very reliable.
Bluff can be used to feint. This is not worth a standard action even with sneak attack unless you're fighting a stupid puzzle monster.
A bard's countersong is not usually very strong but is indeed an option.
Please never spend a standard action on CAdv's "assess opponent" use of Sense Motive.
Clarion Commander (ToB) lets you use Intimidate as a standard action to potentially set someone up for a "perpetual flank."
Half-elf bards with the racial sub level in RoD can use Diplomacy to invoke a calm emotions effect.
More Useful Options
Use Magic Device is usually a great choice just out of the box with no special investment needed other than getting magical devices worth using. Same with Use Psionic Device.
Utterances require Truespeak. Many other game elements in the same chapter of ToM also require spending a standard action making a Truespeak check (consider a fiendbinder issuing a command to a fiend).
Many martial maneuvers require skill checks (notably several Diamond Mind strikes and Tiger Claw strikes).
Intimidate is a whole can of worms. Out of the box, you're spending a standard action to make an enemy shaken—on its own, that's not overwhelmingly powerful, but it combines well with other things. If they've got a long-duration shaken effect already, the fear stacking rules will bump them up to frightened and keep them there, which is powerful. Imperious Command means you're straight up trading turns (again, assuming you're spending a standard action; you obviously come out ahead if you're spending a smaller action somehow). Intimidating Strike lets you attack at the same time and drastically increases the duration. Never Outnumbered widens the range 1/enc.
Handle Animal is usually a move action, but if you've got several pets and those pets have more interesting things to do than you do, it's not automatically a bad choice to spend a standard action on it to issue a second command.
Something something Lucid Dreaming something Dreamheart assassination shenanigans something something next question please
If you've got high-octane Diplomancy nonsense on tap, you can end a fight with a standard action or a full-round action, but doing that usually requires enough BS that I personally would consider the game no longer fun.
A bard's ability to inspire awe (Dragon Magic) is a Will save opposed by a Perform check, so it's pretty likely to go in your favor and also scales (sort of) with non-bard levels if you keep up your Perform bonus.
Reactive/Defensive Options
Heal can be used to stabilize someone.
Escape Artist can be used to wriggle out of a grapple.
I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot. I haven't looked at items at all yet. I'm sure there are more feats out there that could help. What else have you got for me?
The skill check doesn't have to be the ONLY thing you do in the round, but if you're spending your standard action on it (or a full-round action, I suppose), it's likely constituting the lion's share of your contribution that turn. The goal is not to have it just be setting you up for next round unless you've got a payoff that justifies spending two turns on it. (Feinting as a standard action and then making a vanilla sneak attack, for instance, is not especially noteworthy.)
The focus is indeed on combat! Out of combat, it usually doesn't matter how long a skill check takes unless it's measured in hours or days.
The ultimate goal is for this to turn into a resource for characters who don't have strong traditional combat options to be able to slot in some cool skill uses to fill those rounds when their class resources are disappointing. But don't limit yourself just to that mindset. It's okay to include class features and stuff in here.
Don't stress over the "less good" / "more good" designations. That's mostly for my own organizational benefit.
This list is currently fairly stream-of-consciousness. Help is appreciated getting it a bit more organized.
Less Useful Options
Disable Device can be used to sabotage an enemy or can be used ad-hoc to mess with people. This is in the "less good" bucket because it's usually GM-dependent what you can get away with, though I've seen some pretty hilarious stuff when it works.
Sleight of Hand can be used to filch something off of someone, the classic example being stealing a caster's component pouch or holy symbol and therefore curtailing which spells they can cast. Not very reliable.
Bluff can be used to feint. This is not worth a standard action even with sneak attack unless you're fighting a stupid puzzle monster.
A bard's countersong is not usually very strong but is indeed an option.
Please never spend a standard action on CAdv's "assess opponent" use of Sense Motive.
Clarion Commander (ToB) lets you use Intimidate as a standard action to potentially set someone up for a "perpetual flank."
Half-elf bards with the racial sub level in RoD can use Diplomacy to invoke a calm emotions effect.
More Useful Options
Use Magic Device is usually a great choice just out of the box with no special investment needed other than getting magical devices worth using. Same with Use Psionic Device.
Utterances require Truespeak. Many other game elements in the same chapter of ToM also require spending a standard action making a Truespeak check (consider a fiendbinder issuing a command to a fiend).
Many martial maneuvers require skill checks (notably several Diamond Mind strikes and Tiger Claw strikes).
Intimidate is a whole can of worms. Out of the box, you're spending a standard action to make an enemy shaken—on its own, that's not overwhelmingly powerful, but it combines well with other things. If they've got a long-duration shaken effect already, the fear stacking rules will bump them up to frightened and keep them there, which is powerful. Imperious Command means you're straight up trading turns (again, assuming you're spending a standard action; you obviously come out ahead if you're spending a smaller action somehow). Intimidating Strike lets you attack at the same time and drastically increases the duration. Never Outnumbered widens the range 1/enc.
Handle Animal is usually a move action, but if you've got several pets and those pets have more interesting things to do than you do, it's not automatically a bad choice to spend a standard action on it to issue a second command.
Something something Lucid Dreaming something Dreamheart assassination shenanigans something something next question please
If you've got high-octane Diplomancy nonsense on tap, you can end a fight with a standard action or a full-round action, but doing that usually requires enough BS that I personally would consider the game no longer fun.
A bard's ability to inspire awe (Dragon Magic) is a Will save opposed by a Perform check, so it's pretty likely to go in your favor and also scales (sort of) with non-bard levels if you keep up your Perform bonus.
Reactive/Defensive Options
Heal can be used to stabilize someone.
Escape Artist can be used to wriggle out of a grapple.
I'm pretty sure I'm missing a lot. I haven't looked at items at all yet. I'm sure there are more feats out there that could help. What else have you got for me?