Beleaguered Spellcaster

[Elves]

This is a familiar-replacing ACF from Dragon 357, same article as Eidetic Spellcaster. Whenever you take hp damage from an attack equal to 3x your spellcaster level, the next spell you cast is maximized or extended for free.

There's got to be a fun way to use this with characters who only dip spellcasting classes. You could trigger it in any number of ways, to start with, from a reserve elemental to an Obtain Familiar familiar to an unseen servant throwing a bomb at you or whatever.

Have people already done stuff with it? Couldn't find with a quick search.


update: see below, we've found that it a) only counts your level in the granting class for the hp threshold and yet b) can be applied to spells from other classes.

[Elves]

No one has any ideas for how to use this?

[RatElemental]

Does it apply to spellcasting you have from any source or only from the class you took the ACF with? I could see a cleric getting some use out of it to maximize mass healing spells after taking a hit.

[Elves]

Yes, RAW it works with any spell.

But it also only specifies that the damage required is 3x your "spellcaster level", and I'm not sure what that means -- does it just mean your level or CL in the class that grants the ACF, or the sum of all your levels in spellcasting classes, or what?

[Silvercrys]

I guess it makes Wizard 1/Martial Classes X interesting since you can (probably) take Practiced Spellcaster and use Beleaguered Spellcaster to cast Extended Mage Armor for 10 hours at the low, low cost of... *checks notes* 15 HP?

I got nothing, sorry. Extend and Maximize aren't really things you can exploit out of combat, I don't think, at least not with such a small caster level.

[Elves]

It's 3 HP if you have 1 CL. It can be nonlethal too. It also has the benefit that you don't have to spend those feats which a martial isn't going to. But yes, uses in combat seem thin and nothing competitive with Abrupt Jaunt for a gish.

This is why the question of what "spellcaster level" means is relevant. For example is this actually true (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24155940&postcount=466)?

Because if read the favorable way, you could be another caster class who takes a 1lv wizard dip. Get any minion who has their own turn, like a familiar or reserve elemental, and you have free maximize/extend whenever you want at the cost of only 3hp.

[Thurbane]

If you want to artificially lower your CL, you can always take the Mage Slayer line of feats. Would probably be counter-productive at the end of the day, though, just to get free Extend or Maximize.

The daily uses for the feat are based on the ability score that governs your casting for the class you took the ACF in, so it's not unreasonable to assume the "spellcaster level" check for the damage would also apply to only that class. Wizard 1 dip on Cleric or Druid might be interesting.

The wording of the feat also doesn't seem to indicate a time limit between the damage, and the enhanced casting. Take the damage, heal up overnight, then go to town with your next spell. :smalltongue:

Just as an aside, take a look at the "Mastery of X" feats (PgtE, p.125-126): plenty of "free" metamagic to be there, though mostly very situational. Free maximize on Cures/Inflicts, free enlarge on Cold/Fire spells, free extend on Enchantment spells etc.

[Anthrowhale]

Something like Beleagured[Maximized] DMM[Persistent] Darkfire would be good in a low-item campaign.

I could imagine it also being handy for Beleagured[Extended] <buff> when the buff is hour/level as per Greater Magic Vestment, Greater Mighty Wallop, Greater Magic Weapon, etc....

[weckar]

I think the most obvious use is for a multiclassed Duskblade/Wizard. You are going to take damage anyway, and you don't usually have the slots for metamagic.

[Elves]

According to this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13094813&postcount=5), spellcaster level wouldn't be affected by CL boosting or depression. No source is given though.

@Thurbane -- what was your source for the answer I linked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24155940&postcount=466)? If true it would be a strong argument that Beleaguered does only mean your spellcaster level in the class that grants it.

[daremetoidareyo]

Caltrops is a good 0 level option.

[Thurbane]

According to this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13094813&postcount=5), spellcaster level wouldn't be affected by CL boosting or depression. No source is given though.

That's interesting. Lets look at a few things:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_casterlevel&alpha=C

caster level
A measure of the power with which a spellcaster casts a spell. Generally, a spell's caster level is the spellcaster's class level.
Source: PHB

Looking at examples such as Bonded Summoner (MH), Divine Agent (MotP), Halruaan Magehound (ShSo), Lunar Magic (CoSW), Sanctified Mind (LoM), Sublime Chord (CAr) etc. they all seem to treat "spellcaster level" as synonymous with "caster level".


@Thurbane -- what was your source for the answer I linked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24155940&postcount=466)? If true it would be a strong argument that Beleaguered does only mean your spellcaster level in the class that grants it.

It may require some digging to get you a specific citation, but I'll do my best.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Beleaguered Spellcaster is great for some lower power builds, such as Spellsword or Green Star Adept, where your caster level will suffer but you are likely to have a decent HP. In a pure caster build your spellcaster level will likely scale too high vs your HP for 3x damage to be anything but near doom anyways.

[RatElemental]

It might have some interesting implications for e6 too, now that I think of it.

[Thurbane]

@Thurbane -- what was your source for the answer I linked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24155940&postcount=466)? If true it would be a strong argument that Beleaguered does only mean your spellcaster level in the class that grants it.

OK, so far I have this:

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_classlevel&alpha=C

class level
A character's level in a single class. Class features generally depend on class level rather than character level.

Source: PHB

Also, somewhat on the topic of spellcaster level vs. caster level:


I have a bard multiclassing into wizard. As a wizard, I can gain a familiar. If I take the Improved Familiar feat (from the FORGOTTEN REALMS® Campaign Setting and Tome and Blood), do bard levels apply to the feat’s arcane spellcaster level prerequisite?
No, only levels in arcane spellcasting classes that include getting a familiar as a class feature (currently wizard and sorcerer) apply. If you have levels in both wizard and sorcerer, you can add them together both for purposes of determining what kind of special familiar you can get and for determining any familiar’s special abilities.

All the item creation feats have prerequisites of “x spellcaster level." Do spellcaster levels from different spellcasting classes stack? In other words, is a Wiz4/Sor4 an 8th-level or 4th-level spellcaster?
Spellcasting levels don’t stack; if a prerequisite is x spellcaster level you need x levels in a spellcasting class to meet the prerequisite.

...both of which could be taken to support the argument that only the "spellcaster level" for the class you sacrifice the familiar from counts toward damage activating the free metamagic effects.

[Elves]

Okay, the last quote is unambiguous. Beleaguered does only refer to your level in the granting class. Thanks for looking it up.

Of course, a one level dip in wiz1 just for this is a big cost, and builds who can take advantage of DMM may not see a need (with nightstick stacking they certainly don't) but it does open up more use cases. It's notable too that it's effectively providing you free metamagic feats on top of its mm-reducer effect.

[weckar]

I always thought DMM was much too big a feat investment to be worth what you get back. This seems like a much more streamlined hack, especially if it still applies to spells other than the class you took the ACF with.

[Elves]

I think the most obvious use is for a multiclassed Duskblade/Wizard.

Yeah, a wiz1 dip for this is something I would totally consider if I ever play a duskblade. Even for full casters, if there were a PrC dip that lost a CL in exchange for free Extend and Maximize at the cost of 3hp, it wouldn't be considered abominable by any means.



As for the best way to trigger it, the problem with familiar/reserve elemental/unseen servant is they can be killed without much difficulty. What ways are there to deal yourself 3 damage as a free action?

[Zombulian]

Yeah, a wiz1 dip for this is something I would totally consider if I ever play a duskblade. Even for full casters, if there were a PrC dip that lost a CL in exchange for free Extend and Maximize at the cost of 3hp, it wouldn't be considered abominable by any means.



As for the best way to trigger it, the problem with familiar/reserve elemental/unseen servant is they can be killed without much difficulty. What ways are there to deal yourself 3 damage as a free action?

Well there’s always undead minions.
Also if you do Wiz 1/Dread Necro X... does Negative Energy Burst damage you if you’re living?

Edit:Ooh! The Shocking Fist feat for Warforged!

[Elves]

Edit:Ooh! The Shocking Fist feat for Warforged!

Very nice. Though it effectively costs 2 feats since you can't take human.

[weckar]

You're thinking of out-of-combat applications, then?

[Elves]

Edit:Ooh! The Shocking Fist feat for Warforged!

Ah, realized this doesn't work since it's not from "an attack".

That clause may mean resorting to a minion is necessary since free-action attacks are hard to come by. Though I don't get the sense that "attack" is being used here in the strict sense of something that involves an attack roll; unseen servant lobbing a grenade at you or whatever would probably still count.

I just don't like the fact that your minions can be ganked so easily (or that alternately you have to spend resources buffing them).

[daremetoidareyo]

Ah, realized this doesn't work since it's not from "an attack".

That clause may mean resorting to a minion is necessary since free-action attacks are hard to come by. Though I don't get the sense that "attack" is being used here in the strict sense of something that involves an attack roll; unseen servant lobbing a grenade at you or whatever would probably still count.

I just don't like the fact that your minions can be ganked so easily (or that alternately you have to spend resources buffing them).

Quickened blade of blood?

[Zombulian]

Ah, realized this doesn't work since it's not from "an attack".

That clause may mean resorting to a minion is necessary since free-action attacks are hard to come by. Though I don't get the sense that "attack" is being used here in the strict sense of something that involves an attack roll; unseen servant lobbing a grenade at you or whatever would probably still count.

I just don't like the fact that your minions can be ganked so easily (or that alternately you have to spend resources buffing them).

Ah yeah I was realizing the same thing. At least for out of combat extending uses, self harm would work well enough.


Quickened blade of blood?

Ooh! Blade of Blood is actually already a swift action so you don’t even need to quicken! That’s a great move.
Actually with Residual Magic you could loop a bunch of BoB’s together (if you have the health to spare).

Round 1: Cast BoB from a Wand, activating Beleaguered Spellcaster
Round 2: Cast Maximized BoB from your daily spells, reactivating BS
Round 3: Cast Maximized BoB from the wand (because Enduring Potency treats the wand spell as if you had cast it yourself), BS reactivates
Round 4: rinse and repeat

[daremetoidareyo]

Ah yeah I was realizing the same thing. At least for out of combat extending uses, self harm would work well enough.



Ooh! Blade of Blood is actually already a swift action so you don’t even need to quicken! That’s a great move.
Actually with Residual Magic you could loop a bunch of BoB’s together (if you have the health to spare).

Round 1: Cast BoB from a Wand, activating Beleaguered Spellcaster
Round 2: Cast Maximized BoB from your daily spells, reactivating BS
Round 3: Cast Maximized BoB from the wand (because Enduring Potency treats the wand spell as if you had cast it yourself), BS reactivates
Round 4: rinse and repeat

mix and match with maximized vampiric touches to keep the blood blades flowin'

not a bad fit on a duskblade.

[Elves]

Can't tell if the hp sacrifice from blade of blood happens upon casting or when the attack is made. But either way it doesn't really work. If it happens at casting, that doesn't count as an attack. If it happens with the attack, then you need to spend an extra action to attack or rely on a minion anyway, in which case you should just use one to harm you directly.

[Helluin]

Nobody thinking Maximized Venomfire from a Druid (have your doggo bite you in the morning) for 30 additional damage per hit at level 7? Maximized Hammer of Righteousness (no CL damage cap!)? Maximized Summon spells (including Sanctified spells like Cry of Ysgard)? Not to mention extended Shapechange (applies to pretty much any class with that spell)...

[Elves]

Nobody thinking Maximized Venomfire from a Druid (have your doggo bite you in the morning) for 30 additional damage per hit at level 7?
For druid, however, unlike cleric, it's competing with a dip in a turn undead class for DMM persist. I could see it being preferred by druids who don't have the 3 feats to spare for extend, persist and DMM persist, since that is a hefty cost.

[Zombulian]

For druid, however, unlike cleric, it's competing with a dip in a turn undead class for DMM persist. I could see it being preferred by druids who don't have the 3 feats to spare for extend, persist and DMM persist, since that is a hefty cost.

Yeah, plus you have a pretty beefy minion for free with the Druid. I think it’s a pretty good option.

Slightly related, can you Maximize Hunter’s Eye to get maximized sneak attack dice?

[Zombulian]

Doubleposting just to bump with an addition.
The feat Master’s Will is an immediate action to have a 50% chance of taking your character level in damage. The other side of the 50% is that you get a +8 untyped bonus to a bunch of different kinds of rolls. Pretty good deal!

Requires two prereq feats (only one if you’re undead though) but since they’re Vile you can get them for free if you serve an Elder Evil.