Responding to a flat DM

[Drache64]

Have you ever had a DM that felt flat? All his characters were basically him, he kept reusing the same monsters, he seemed to lack flare for telling a story.

What was your response to this situation? For me, the guy was excited to DM and had been preparing and studying for a long time, making sure he knew the rules, understanding races etc.

I didn't have the heart to abandon him, so I stayed in as a player. But the other players grew unsettled, they began to grumble and complain which made the experience even more negative. As the groups primary DM I offered the new DM advice on the side, but the truth of the matter is that some people just lack a certain story telling flare.

Eventually the campaign fell apart due to player mutiny.

[MoiMagnus]

I did have one DM which was mostly "flat", but only for one session (it was in a convention).

It was very clear from the beginning that he was the little brother trying to emulate his big brother (the world was his brother's world), and we likely played a segment of the campaign he played years ago. That was not BAD, and he clearly could become better with experience, but I'm rather happy that I only had one session with him.

But if that was a friend, I would say that the best things to do to "improve his DMing" would be to make sure he see more diverse way of DMing, so that he can take its inspiration from more sources. The fact that he was "preparing and studying for a long time, making sure he knew the rules, understanding races etc." hint to me that he was lacking sources of influence, and trusting too much the rules to do the actual job of a DM.

[This, or going toward systems where the DM is almost irrelevant (you could play without one), and that's the interactions between the player that actually build the story.]

[Drache64]

He's also a huge Mercer Fan

[zinycor]

Assuming this GM to be your friend, I would make time to geek out over the monster manual with him, maybe take time to talk about potential dungeons.

In the end talk to this friend as a friend, and try to reward him for thinking creatively.

[Feddlefew]

You could show your friend Matt Colville's Running the Game (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlUk42GiU2guNzWBzxn7hs8MaV7ELLCP_) series. It's less about rules and more about how to design and execute a satisfying campaign.

You could also sit down with him and build a 3-4 session adventure from scratch together.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Leave. You can help a bad GM who has promise if they're making some basic mistakes that are easy to point out and fix. But you can't help someone who just isn't very good in general.

[zinycor]

Leave. You can help a bad GM who has promise if they're making some basic mistakes that are easy to point out and fix. But you can't help someone who just isn't very good in general.

What? That's ridiculous

[Mastikator]

I don't think your friend is ready to be a DM. Actually he won't make a great player but that's way less damaging for the game.

[Themrys]

Have you ever had a DM that felt flat? All his characters were basically him, he kept reusing the same monsters, he seemed to lack flare for telling a story.

What was your response to this situation? For me, the guy was excited to DM and had been preparing and studying for a long time, making sure he knew the rules, understanding races etc.

I didn't have the heart to abandon him, so I stayed in as a player. But the other players grew unsettled, they began to grumble and complain which made the experience even more negative. As the groups primary DM I offered the new DM advice on the side, but the truth of the matter is that some people just lack a certain story telling flare.

Eventually the campaign fell apart due to player mutiny.

If he is new at his, it is possible he just lacks self esteem and suffers from perfectionism, which often hinders creativity.

One way to fix it would be to use premade adventures that come with interesting monsters and NPCs that have a clear characterization. (At least for The Dark Eye, which I mainly play, there seem to be a lot of fanmade adventures that you can download for free.)

[Bjarkmundur]

I love dual DMing. My friens usually takes a "filler episode" every fourth session or so to give me a chance to prep for the next story arch. It has been a great learning experience for both of us, and having a partner-in-crime is invaluable. Swapping seats like this continously puts your experiences in a new perspective.

[Laserlight]

I've had at least one DM who can basically only work from published adventures; he doesn't seem to be able to improvise. If the text says you fight a giant but doesn't tell you anything about the setting, then you're probably on a flat road in a flat field with nothing interesting. But as long as he's got a module, he is adequate.

You might, as instruction, run a one-shot with him as a player, and make sure the party interacts with a few characters with strong traits. The manic gnome wizard, the super macho orc barbarian, the snooty elf. Ham it up. Then, after the game ends, talk about it a little. "When I make an NPC I have an Emotion Wheel and I roll on that to see what his prominent emotion is. Then I give him a trait that displays that and dial it up to 11."

[False God]

You either quit if you can't take it...or you step up and start filling in more stuff on your end. Not like taking over the role of DM mind you, just being more creative with your part. Might encourage him to be more creative with his part, and the other players might join in too.

If everyone except the DM is being really creative, it'll feel less onerous when the DM isn't.

[Tvtyrant]

Have you ever had a DM that felt flat? All his characters were basically him, he kept reusing the same monsters, he seemed to lack flare for telling a story.

What was your response to this situation? For me, the guy was excited to DM and had been preparing and studying for a long time, making sure he knew the rules, understanding races etc.

I didn't have the heart to abandon him, so I stayed in as a player. But the other players grew unsettled, they began to grumble and complain which made the experience even more negative. As the groups primary DM I offered the new DM advice on the side, but the truth of the matter is that some people just lack a certain story telling flare.

Eventually the campaign fell apart due to player mutiny.

One thing you could do is something like free word association or riddles first as a group, that helps unlimber creativity.

The real issue is probably a lack of confidence, either as a DM or with the rules. I had players who had difficulty learning the rules who would do the same thing every turn because they didn't know what else to do, and if you are the DM that might limit the player to Orcs or bandits. The lack of confidence makes it hard to concentrate on new ideas, anxiety tends to shut people down.

[Ken Murikumo]

Constructive criticism. Be mature and tell him where his weak points lie and how to fix them. It's how most of us (GMs) probably got better.

My first campaign was a train-wreck. I asked every session, "what do you guys think?" and they just smiled and said it was fun. In reality, they were not having fun but didn't know how to tell me. Don't do this because i never improved during that campaign and neither will he unless you give feedback.

[Mordar]

I like the idea of "practice games"...have the DM run some very short, one-player games and really assess them after the fact. Talk about what worked and what didn't and give opportunities to develop the skillset. After all, Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Tony Gwynn/Whoever you like wasn't great day one. Or even day one hundred and one.

- M

[Kaptin Keen]

I sometimes feel I'm the flat GM. No player ever complained, but I'm painfully aware that every PC is - quite literally - me. I try my best to differentiate, but ... well, you can't really run from yourself, can you?

[FabulousFizban]

step up and try it yourself

[Drache64]

step up and try it yourself

If that is directed at me, then you missed the part where I said I'm the main DM

[zinycor]

If that is directed at me, then you missed the part where I said I'm the main DM

Will you only answer to this person?

[Faily]

Give it time and give constructive feedback.

Not all of us were born storytellers and amazing GMs.

[Martin Greywolf]

Have you ever had a DM that felt flat? All his characters were basically him, he kept reusing the same monsters, he seemed to lack flare for telling a story.


Not really, but the times when I was starting out are a decade and a half ion the past, and we may have sucked immensely - that said, we were young then, and full of hope and enthusiasm, so...



For me, the guy was excited to DM and had been preparing and studying for a long time, making sure he knew the rules, understanding races etc.


That's a good step one, know the rules well, if not perfectly. It's not enough, though. The problem is that most DM books are absolute pants at explaining how to create a good adventure or good NPCs, roll randomly on a table is not enough. There are amny ways to fix this, but the best one is the one no one likes: put your nose to the grindstone.

You get better at a skill by doing it, so go forth and create characters and backstories for fun. If you are designing an adventure, don't try to take notes the way veteran DMs do - they have a few bullet points and that's enough for them, but you need to write down exact things. What the NPC will say when prompted on info about this, written as a direct speech text. The description of a place you'll just read.

That will allow you to devote most of your brain processing power towards playing the character or remembering things you need to remember without being overwhelmed, and as time goes on, you'll find out you can leave stuff out. At first, your dialogue will be wooden when it comes to reading those pre-made speeches, but then you'll add a bit of spice here and a little salt there, and after a while, you'll be cooking for real.

And if you have an experienced DM on hand who can go over your stuff and tell you what he thinks will or will not work and why, all the better.

[Luckmann]

He's also a huge Mercer Fan
Run.⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

[zinycor]

Run.⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

?? Is there something wrong with Mercer? I have watched him on a few podcasts but never seen his GMing. But this isn't the first time I have seen that Mercer's fans get a bad reputation.

[Dimers]

Have you ever had a DM that felt flat? All his characters were basically him, he kept reusing the same monsters, he seemed to lack flare for telling a story.

I don't recall a DM who did everything flat, but lots of people have an aspect of it. One current GM of mine is amazing at plotting and creating a living world, and then terrible at presenting it. Another keeps things vivid right up until he needs to improvise. Me, I'm not good at making plotlines seem fresh and I'm actively bad at machinations, but I can make unique personalities well even on-the-fly. Another GM had a good story but every combat was boring.


What was your response to this situation?

Acceptance. I enjoy what I can. If asked what was good or bad about a given session, I'm happy to analyze in detail, but (from long experience with humanity) I don't expect a change to result. I just try to be a good player, because:


If everyone except the DM is being really creative, it'll feel less onerous when the DM isn't.

After all, the GM isn't the only person creating fun at the table.