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Fynzmirs
2019-09-26, 03:34 PM
I post some of my ideas for new warlock invocations and I would love to know what do you guys think about them.

Voice of Authority
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast command at will, without expending a spell slot.

Eldritch Claw
Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip
Whenever you cast eldritch blast you can choose to make melee spell attacks instead od ranged spell attacks. When you do so, you can use your bonus action to make a melee weapon attack.

Font of Madness
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast dissonant whispers at will, without expending a spell slot.

Patron Spell
Prerequisite: 5th level
Choose a single spell you can cast. It becomes your Patron Spell. You gain an additional Pact Magic slot. You can expend it only to cast your Patron Spell. Whenever you gain a level in warlock class you can change your Patron Spell.

Kiss of the Marilith
Prerequisite: poison spray cantrip
As a bonus action you can imbue a weapon you hold with poison. Once before your next turn when you hit an enemy with the chosen weapon, you can affect them as though you have cast poison spray on them.

Undead Legion
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast animate dead once without expending a spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a long rest. When you gain 11th warlock level and again when you gain 17th level, you can cast animate dead using this feature two more times (up to a maximum of five times at 17th level). You regain all uses of this ability once you finish a long rest.

Blinding Beauty
As an action you can choose a single creature within 60 feet that can see you. This creature is forced to make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the beginning of your next turn.

Killing Beauty
Prerequisite: blinding beauty invocation, 9th level
Whenever you use your Blinding Beauty, you can also force your victim to take 1d6 psychic damage on a failed save, no action required. You can add you Charisma modifier to that damage.

Call Patron
Prerequisite: 11th level
You can cast commune once. You regain the ability to do so after you finish a long rest.

Shadowy Servant
You can cast unseen servant at will, without expending a spell slot. You can have no more than one such servant active on any time.

Awaken Shadow
Prerequisite: Shadowy Servant invovation, 9th level
You can use you action to empower your shadowy servant for 1 minute. It becomes a shadow (see Monster Manual) with the following exceptions: it adds your proficiency bonus to its attack and damage Rolls, its melee attacks do not reduce Strenght and it is completely under your control. Once you use this ability you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Spectral Allies
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast mirror image once, without using a spell slot. As long as you have this spell active, you can use your bonus action to sacrifice one of your images and gain advantage on a single melee attack roll. You regain the ability to cast this spell when you finish a short or long rest.

Enthralling Voice
Prerequisite: 7th level
As an action, you can sing a song of eldritch power. Choose a number of creatures who can hear you no greater than your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). Each of them is forced to make a Wisdom save or be charmed by you until the end of your next turn. While charmed in this way, a creature tries to get as close as possible to you or remains in place without moving (your choice). Either way, the creature will defend itself normally and attackers do not grant advantage versus the affected creature. You can use your action on your turn to Extend the duration of this ability. If you do so, each target can make another Wisdom save to break free from your charm. Should they fail, they remain affected until the end of your next turn. If you use your action to do anything else than sustaining your performance, you cannot use this ability until you finish a short or long rest.

Painful Lust
You can use your bonus action to deal psychic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 point of damage) to a single creature that is charmed by you. If the charmed condition would end upon taking damage, the victim is instead forced to make a Charisma save. The charmed condition ends only if they fail this saving throw.

Fury of Blades
Prerequisite: Pact of the Blade boon
You can summon or bond to a second pact weapon. As an Action you can summon both of them. Your pact weapons may function as arcane foci for your warlock spells.

Dance of the Thousand Blades
Prerequisite: Fury of Blades invocation, 9th level
When wielding a pact weapon in both hands you can use your action to cast steel wind strike without using a warlock spell slot. Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest.

Demonhide
Prerequisite: 12th level
When you aren't wearing armor, your AC is equal to 13 + your Dexterity modifier. Additionally, choose piercing, slashing or bludgeoning. You gain resistance to the chosen damage type. Magical damage overcomes your resistance.

Dance of the Marilith
Prerequisite: Fury of Blades invocation
Whenever you use your bonus action to attack with your off-hand pact weapon, you can slither up to 10 feet. This movement is in addition to any other movement modes you might posses and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

sandmote
2019-09-26, 07:16 PM
My initial responses are split between "that shouldn't be available for nearly such a low level," and "that looks cool but should probably be cleaned up."

In the initial category, 1st level spells with clear combat applications:


Voice of Authority
You can cast command at will, without expending a spell slot.

Font of Madness
You can cast dissonant whispers at will, without expending a spell slot.

Call Patron
Prerequisite: 11th level
You can cast commune once. You regain the ability to do so after you finish a long rest. Leave this for utility spells (in the vein of detect magic or silent image), preferably for ones not on the warlock spell list. Particularly don't let the player deal 3d6 psychic damage every round at 2nd level.

The commune version is a lot better.


Patron Spell
Choose a single spell you can cast. It becomes your Patron Spell. You gain an additional Pact Magic slot. You can expend it only to cast your Patron Spell. Whenever you gain a level in warlock class you can change your Patron Spell. Maybe limit this spell slot to being a particular level? Or at least a level prerequisite? 1 free 5th level Armor of Agathys is fairly strong for a single invocation, for example.


Eldritch Claw
Prerequisite: eldritch blast cantrip
Whenever you cast eldritch blast you can choose to make melee spell attacks instead od ranged spell attacks. When you do so, you can use your bonus action to make a melee weapon attack. If this is meant to make eldritch blast more useful in melee, may be take away disadvantage for making the spell attack with this cantrip under those circumstances? I'd at least limit it to attacking with a light weapon, given you won't be giving up anything more than a bonus action.


Kiss of the Marilith
Prerequisite: poison spray cantrip
As a bonus action you can imbue a weapon you hold with poison. Once before your next turn when you hit an enemy with the chosen weapon, you can affect them as though you have cast poison spray on them. This one I love. I'd steal the established structure of the Paldin's Smite spells though: "'As a bonus action on your turn, you can imbue your weapon with the poison spray cantrip. The next time you hit a creature with a weapon attack before the start of your next turn, your target must also make a saving throw against the poison spray cantrip," or something similar. Maybe also specify the cantrip's damage only includes your warlock level, so it doesn't get abused by multiclass characters.


Blinding Beauty
As an action you can choose a single creature within 60 feet that can see you. This creature has to make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the beginning of your next turn.

Killing Beauty
Prerequisite: blinding beauty invocation, 9th level
Whenever you use your Blinding Beauty, you can also deal 1d6 psychic damage to your victim, no action required. You can add you Charisma modifier to that damage. I'd maybe specify the damage is dealt on a failed save? Otherwise, I'd standardize the language: "When you use your blinding beauty invocation, your target takes additional damage on a failed save equal to 1d6 + your charisma modifer," or similar.

Pretty Flavorful though. I might take a crack at expanding the idea into a full medusa patron.


Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast animate dead a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). You regain expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Shadowy Servant
You can cast unseen servant at will, without expending a spell slot. You can have no more than one such servant active on any time.

Awaken Shadow
Prerequisite: Shadowy Servant invovation, 9th level
You can use you action to empower your shadowy servant for 1 minute. It becomes a shadow (see Monster Manual) with the following exceptions: it adds your proficiency bonus to its attack and damage Rolls, its melee attacks do not reduce Strenght and it is completely under your control. Once you use this ability you cannot do so again until you finish a long rest. Excellent Idea here; it's just a bit awkward.

I'd let Awaken Shadow refresh on a short rest, just so you can afford to regularly use it. Shadows aren't exactly super powerful.

Undead waltz would grant you around 13 undead at 3rd level (assuming a charisma of 16) and 17 later. Maybe instead grant one invocation at 7th level letting you take command of a larger group of undead, but only grant a single casting of animate dead at 5th? That way you aren't granting as large an undead army at 5th level. For comparison, a 5th level wizard can really only animate five zombies/skeletons: They can reassert control over four when they raise the fifth but don't yet have a spell slot to reassert over the fifth one and raise another.


Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast Animate Dead once using a warlock spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a long rest.

Undead Army
Prerequisite: 7th level, Undead Waltz invocation
As an action, you can reassert your control over a number of zombies and skeletons you have animated equal to your warlock level. This effect lasts for 24 hours. If you know the Create Undead spell, you can reassert control over ghouls you have animated in this manner as well; each ghoul counts as three skeletons or zombies for determining the total number of creatures you can reassert control over.

My understanding is that Mystic Arcaniums can't be upcast though, so I don't see the point of letting Undead Army reassert control over ghasts, wights or mummies. This does however scale a lot smoother; from 7 undead at 7th level to 20 at 20th. You could also justify reducing Undead Army's level prerequte to 5th as well, but you are looking at having the warlock cast 3rd level spells in addition to their 5 minions. I think it would work better to keeping such a boost for when the warlock to have fallen more clearly behind.

Fynzmirs
2019-09-27, 01:09 AM
My initial responses are split between "that shouldn't be available for nearly such a low level," and "that looks cool but should probably be cleaned up."

In the initial category, 1st level spells with clear combat applications:
Leave this for utility spells (in the vein of detect magic or silent image), preferably for ones not on the warlock spell list. Particularly don't let the player deal 3d6 psychic damage every round at 2nd level.

The commune version is a lot better.

The main idea behind those invocations was to give warlocks something else to do instead of their eldritch blast.
1. Command is one of those spells that I love to cast but would never use one of my limited warlock slots to do so. Using it every turn allows playing as a warlock controller, doing something instead of doing damage. Command is strong, but Command spam IMO is not. You are basically trading ~1d10+3 dmg (more at later levels) to do something a strong barbarian would be able to do anyway, without the need of using spell slots - tripping an enemy. It's not automatic and it's something martials should be able to do anyway. It's mostly useful for people who don't like just doing damage (like myself).

2. I admit that I had forgotten how much damage Dissonant Whispers does. How about increasing the required level to 5th? At 5th level your AB deals ~2d10+8 dmg (19) which is far less than 3d6 (10.5). Even baseline EB (which does not cost you an invocation) deals slightly more damage. So again, trading damage for utility.


Maybe limit this spell slot to being a particular level? Or at least a level prerequisite? 1 free 5th level Armor of Agathys is fairly strong for a single invocation, for example.

Required 5th level? Warlock spellcasting does not really gain a major power boost upon changing tiers.


If this is meant to make eldritch blast more useful in melee, may be take away disadvantage for making the spell attack with this cantrip under those circumstances? I'd at least limit it to attacking with a light weapon, given you won't be giving up anything more than a bonus action.

Well I thought about it as dual wielding a weapon and an eldritch blast. Because that's not really a supported playstyle. So limiting it to light weapons only seems fair.


This one I love. I'd steal the established structure of the Paldin's Smite spells though: "'As a bonus action on your turn, you can imbue your weapon with the poison spray cantrip. The next time you hit a creature with a weapon attack before the start of your next turn, your target must also make a saving throw against the poison spray cantrip," or something similar. Maybe also specify the cantrip's damage only includes your warlock level, so it doesn't get abused by multiclass characters.

I will edit it when I have access to my computer.
But limiting it to warlock levels is... weird. Most of my warlocks are multiclass ones, often taking few levels of rogue or bard. I would hate to have main source of damage limited in this way, especially as Eldritch Blast is not. Warlock will always be a good dip, and I'd argue that there are better invocations for dips :P


I'd maybe specify the damage is dealt on a failed save? Otherwise, I'd standardize the language: "When you use your blinding beauty invocation, your target takes additional damage on a failed save equal to 1d6 + your charisma modifer," or similar.

Pretty Flavorful though. I might take a crack at expanding the idea into a full medusa patron.

Yeah, I will change that later


Excellent Idea here; it's just a bit awkward.

I'd let Awaken Shadow refresh on a short rest, just so you can afford to regularly use it. Shadows aren't exactly super powerful.

In first version the shadow had its Strength draining touch which I felt was a bit too strong. 1/short rest seems okay.


Undead waltz would grant you around 13 undead at 3rd level (assuming a charisma of 16) and 17 later. Maybe instead grant one invocation at 7th level letting you take command of a larger group of undead, but only grant a single casting of animate dead at 5th? That way you aren't granting as large an undead army at 5th level. For comparison, a 5th level wizard can really only animate five zombies/skeletons: They can reassert control over four when they raise the fifth but don't yet have a spell slot to reassert over the fifth one and raise another.


Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast Animate Dead once using a warlock spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a long rest.

Undead Army
Prerequisite: 7th level, Undead Waltz invocation
As an action, you can reassert your control over a number of zombies and skeletons you have animated equal to your warlock level. This effect lasts for 24 hours. If you know the Create Undead spell, you can reassert control over ghouls you have animated in this manner as well; each ghoul counts as three skeletons or zombies for determining the total number of creatures you can reassert control over.

My understanding is that Mystic Arcaniums can't be upcast though, so I don't see the point of letting Undead Army reassert control over ghasts, wights or mummies. This does however scale a lot smoother; from 7 undead at 7th level to 20 at 20th. You could also justify reducing Undead Army's level prerequte to 5th as well, but you are looking at having the warlock cast 3rd level spells in addition to their 5 minions. I think it would work better to keeping such a boost for when the warlock to have fallen more clearly behind.

Well... What about that:

Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast Animate Dead once. You can't do so again until you finish a long rest. When you gain 11th warlock level and again when you gain 17th level, you can cast Animate Dead using this feature two more times (up to a maximum of five times at 17th level). You regain all uses of this ability once you finish a long rest.

This way it scales more and I avoid adding a completely new ability.

Segev
2019-09-27, 09:44 AM
Animate dead is already on the Warlock spell list. Any Warlock invocation that has "you may cast this spell once" and refreshes on a long rest is already a very likely "pass" for me; making it a spell I could actually have just for a spell known makes me want to pull my hair out while asking why anybody would think this was a good idea.

Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: Must know Animate Dead
When you cast animate dead, you may use it on uncontrolled skeletons and zombies as if you had created them and they were under your control. They must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or be brought under your control as if you were renewing it on already-controlled undead.

Fynzmirs
2019-09-27, 03:45 PM
Animate dead is already on the Warlock spell list. Any Warlock invocation that has "you may cast this spell once" and refreshes on a long rest is already a very likely "pass" for me; making it a spell I could actually have just for a spell known makes me want to pull my hair out while asking why anybody would think this was a good idea.

Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: Must know Animate Dead
When you cast animate dead, you may use it on uncontrolled skeletons and zombies as if you had created them and they were under your control. They must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or be brought under your control as if you were renewing it on already-controlled undead.

It's not. And for a good reason - warlocks regain their spells on short rests, and animate dead is a spell definetely balanced to be regained at long rest.

My invocation gives you a free casting of a good spell a few times per day - and it's a spell that remains in effect for 24 hours an does nor require concentration. It's something completely else than those "1/long rest" invocations from Xanathar which I also despise.

sandmote
2019-09-27, 10:29 PM
The main idea behind those invocations was to give warlocks something else to do instead of their eldritch blast.
1. Command is one of those spells that I love to cast but would never use one of my limited warlock slots to do so. Using it every turn allows playing as a warlock controller, doing something instead of doing damage. Command is strong, but Command spam IMO is not. You are basically trading ~1d10+3 dmg (more at later levels) to do something a strong barbarian would be able to do anyway, without the need of using spell slots - tripping an enemy. It's not automatic and it's something martials should be able to do anyway. It's mostly useful for people who don't like just doing damage (like myself).

2. I admit that I had forgotten how much damage Dissonant Whispers does. How about increasing the required level to 5th? At 5th level your AB deals ~2d10+8 dmg (19) which is far less than 3d6 (10.5). Even baseline EB (which does not cost you an invocation) deals slightly more damage. So again, trading damage for utility. At 5th level the damage looks fine.

Command can do more than make enemies prone. Approach and Flee can force opportunity attacks or damage from lasting areas of effect. Drop applies to weapons and shields (and your target only has one interaction per turn). Approach can also force a strong ranged enemy into your barbarian's range, and Flee can force a creature to move away from your squishy casters. And of course Halt takes away the target's actions (which means no casting or damage). Even at 1 enemy per turn, i'd still push it back to at least 12th level.


Required 5th level? Warlock spellcasting does not really gain a major power boost upon changing tiers. Agreed, but this is a bit much for one invocation. For helping the warlock's base power, I have written Invocations (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?576879-Warlock-Spell-and-Invocation-Options) that grant 1st and 2nd level spells to your pact spells specifically to address that problem. I agree a single spell you have could be grant at a higher level, but I think letting the player choose the spell and having it at the same level is noticeably stronger than most invocations.


Well I thought about it as dual wielding a weapon and an eldritch blast. Because that's not really a supported playstyle. So limiting it to light weapons only seems fair.

I will edit it when I have access to my computer.
But limiting it to warlock levels is... weird. Most of my warlocks are multiclass ones, often taking few levels of rogue or bard. I would hate to have main source of damage limited in this way, especially as Eldritch Blast is not. Warlock will always be a good dip, and I'd argue that there are better invocations for dips :P I think taking away the disadvantage against enemies within 5 feet would be clearer, but I don't think it changes how the mechanics are supposed to work. I'm assuming you meant the PC can choose between melee and ranged spell attacks for each roll?

It becomes an issue when someone else dips into warlock, and gets this damage on top of their weapon attacks. Every round. For classes that often have no other use for their bonus action.


Undead Waltz
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast Animate Dead once. You can't do so again until you finish a long rest. When you gain 11th warlock level and again when you gain 17th level, you can cast Animate Dead using this feature two more times (up to a maximum of five times at 17th level). You regain all uses of this ability once you finish a long rest.

This way it scales more and I avoid adding a completely new ability. That works. I wrote the second version to scale smoother, but for a single invocation this is probably the best option.


It's not. And for a good reason - warlocks regain their spells on short rests, and animate dead is a spell definetely balanced to be regained at long rest.

My invocation gives you a free casting of a good spell a few times per day - and it's a spell that remains in effect for 24 hours an does nor require concentration. It's something completely else than those "1/long rest" invocations from Xanathar which I also despise. I think they'd be okay if warlocks got a unique twist on them, letting the spells last longer. But yeah, the default version are pretty much useless.

On a similar note, would multiple castings of slow that only last 1 round be more usable than Mire the Mind?

Yakk
2019-09-28, 07:19 PM
Dissonant whispers isn't about the damage. I mean, half on succeeded save makes even 10.5 pretty good.

It is about provoking OAs from your entire party in melee with the target.

Fynzmirs
2019-09-29, 10:01 AM
Dissonant whispers isn't about the damage. I mean, half on succeeded save makes even 10.5 pretty good.

It is about provoking OAs from your entire party in melee with the target.


At 5th level the damage looks fine.

Command can do more than make enemies prone. Approach and Flee can force opportunity attacks or damage from lasting areas of effect. Drop applies to weapons and shields (and your target only has one interaction per turn). Approach can also force a strong ranged enemy into your barbarian's range, and Flee can force a creature to move away from your squishy casters. And of course Halt takes away the target's actions (which means no casting or damage). Even at 1 enemy per turn, i'd still push it back to at least 12th level.


I think you both are overestimating the impact of at-will spells. Warlock is already a spellcaster and those are FIRST LEVEL SPELLS. Sure, they are at will. But you won't propably be bale to use them outside of fights to solve other obstacles. This leaves us with combat use. To make the most of at-will casting you would have to use those spells every turn. Average fight at my table lasts about 4 full rounds. During the first one you won't be in a right position to cast Dissonant Whispers. That leaves us with about 3 castings per fight. And you aren't doing anything else.

Bard1/Sorcerer 4 can cast 11 Dissonant Whispers per day. That would mean that warlock with at-will spellcasting would become more effective at the end of the fourth fight every day. Except with Bard1/Sorcerer4 you can cast better things than Dissonant Whispers. For example upcasted Dissonant Whispers. Or heck, just Suggest someone to walk away and see him run for full eight hours.

I'm not trying to say that Warlock 5 with Font of Madness can't do anything except at-will Dissonant Whispers. But every turn he doesn't use his awesome at-will spellcasting, Font of Madness becomes less of an effecive investment. That's because actions in combat are more limited than spell slots.

That said, adding a requirement of 5th level for both Font of Madness and Voice of Authority is a good idea.

Fynzmirs
2019-09-30, 02:53 PM
Edited the first post and added new invocations.

Yakk
2019-09-30, 08:29 PM
The first turn, if they start "1 move" away, a failed save either the foe not be able to engage in melee on *their* first turn, or if they already have it provokes an OA.

If you have 3 fights between short rests, at 7 fights the Warlock 5 has 6 level 3 spells. If the fights last 3 rounds, they have 21 rounds; so 15 whispers and 6 level 3 spells.

The bard 1/sorcerer 4 cannot cast 3rd level spells, but can upcast 2nd and 1st level spells. They get 2 level 3 spellslots, 3 level 2 spell slots, and 4 level 1 spellslots. With 4 sorcery points they get another 2 level 1 spells.

If they cast dissonant whispers, they can cast it 11 times, and upcast it (for a few extra d6s) a few times. Supposing they have better things to do with their 2/3 slots, they have 5 above-level 1 slots, 6 casts whispers, and another 10 rounds where they use cantrips.

The bard/sorcerer is useless compared to the warlock here. I mean, if you get no short rests, the gap closes, but...

OTOH, at least it is a combat invokation better than "hey, +cha on EB".

Fynzmirs
2019-10-02, 03:28 PM
The first turn, if they start "1 move" away, a failed save either the foe not be able to engage in melee on *their* first turn, or if they already have it provokes an OA.

If you have 3 fights between short rests, at 7 fights the Warlock 5 has 6 level 3 spells. If the fights last 3 rounds, they have 21 rounds; so 15 whispers and 6 level 3 spells.

The bard 1/sorcerer 4 cannot cast 3rd level spells, but can upcast 2nd and 1st level spells. They get 2 level 3 spellslots, 3 level 2 spell slots, and 4 level 1 spellslots. With 4 sorcery points they get another 2 level 1 spells.

If they cast dissonant whispers, they can cast it 11 times, and upcast it (for a few extra d6s) a few times. Supposing they have better things to do with their 2/3 slots, they have 5 above-level 1 slots, 6 casts whispers, and another 10 rounds where they use cantrips.

The bard/sorcerer is useless compared to the warlock here. I mean, if you get no short rests, the gap closes, but...

OTOH, at least it is a combat invokation better than "hey, +cha on EB".

Yet the effectiveness of your whispers depend entirely on your group. If you have a melee-heavy party, you have the opportunity to deal some nasty damage. But you can't really assume you have a good team composition. Maybe one of your allies will be in melee. If he is, great. You have just used your action to deal less damage than you could have, trading your DPR for the better performance of your allies. Such behaviour should be encouraged, especially in a "solo" class like a warlock.

And really, if casting a 1st level spell is better for Sorcerer4/Bard1 than casting a 2nd level spell, it's the matter of spell balance, not this invocation. I dare to assume that Dissonant Whispers is such a (potentially) exceptional spell because of it's team focus. Without the help of your allies you are looking at a sub-par spell that's generally worse than casting (Agonizing) Eldritch Blast.

Also, 7 fights a day aren't really a norm, however much designers want them to be. If I am wrong, I apologize for my ignorance.

Having said that, I really want to thank you all for your comments. It's great to see you all interested in the stuff I write, even if we have yet to find a satisfactory consensus in regards to balance. :smallbiggrin:

I apologize if I sound weird, but I'm a non-native English user writing in the middle of the night :smallwink: