What feats should just be given for free?

[Blackhawk748]

I'm gonna be starting an E6 campaign soon and while I know that E6 granting buttloads of feats makes feat taxes suck less, it's still lame to take Point Blank Shot. So, what feats should I just make available to everyone and at what point?

Current list:

1st level: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Finesse, Dodge.

At +1 BaB: Power Attack

At +1 BaB and Int 13: Combat Expertise

At +1 BaB and Dex 13: Combat Reflexes

Im also gonna make the TWF line just one feat that scales, cuz duh.

[PraxisVetli]

My table doesn't give Weapon Finesse for free, but we do let it apply to hit and damage.
We also give Skill Tricks for free, though in E6, I'm not sure how many are relevant.

[The Viscount]

I'd also give out Deadeye for free. Ranged combat is so feat intensive as is, a little help won't destroy balance.

[daremetoidareyo]

Item creation feats for spontaneous casters.

A ranger should be able to brew a potion or make a fetish, a paladin should be able to make a holy sword, and sorcerers shouldn't suck as much as they do.

[Blackhawk748]

My table doesn't give Weapon Finesse for free, but we do let it apply to hit and damage.
We also give Skill Tricks for free, though in E6, I'm not sure how many are relevant.

Oh, nice. i've never found it to be an issue as those who want it usually go Shadow Blade, and they were usually going Swordsage anyway.


I'd also give out Deadeye for free. Ranged combat is so feat intensive as is, a little help won't hurt it.

Deadeye would be good, will have to think on that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

My group would make most of the garbage/tax feats half price, i.e. if you’re going to take one, you get two instead. Both need to be on the half price list, of course.

[Mike Miller]

Improved unarmed strike, combat expertise, dode, mobility, endurance

[Zaq]

Track, Research, Investigate.

[Telonius]

I've played around with the idea of making Power and Finesse properties of the weapons themselves, rather than feats that have to be taken. Never actually implemented it though. Mainly because of too much paperwork and too little knowledge of how all of the weapons would actually be used. Like, yeah, pretty obvious Greatclub ought to be Power Attack and Rapier ought to be Finesse. But I can imagine the arguments about how a Scimitar would have actually been used in combat and whether it was better modeled as a Finesse or Power weapon.

[Malphegor]

Heighten Spell for spellcasters, if only because I actually assumed that was how things worked anyway until recently.

[Celestia]

I've played around with the idea of making Power and Finesse properties of the weapons themselves, rather than feats that have to be taken. Never actually implemented it though. Mainly because of too much paperwork and too little knowledge of how all of the weapons would actually be used. Like, yeah, pretty obvious Greatclub ought to be Power Attack and Rapier ought to be Finesse. But I can imagine the arguments about how a Scimitar would have actually been used in combat and whether it was better modeled as a Finesse or Power weapon.
whynotboth.png

A quick and easy way to do it is by category: light weapons can be finessed; two-handed weapons can be power attacked; and one-handed weapons can be eithered.

[Blackhawk748]

My group would make most of the garbage/tax feats half price, i.e. if you’re going to take one, you get two instead. Both need to be on the half price list, of course.

There's an idea. Probably won't do it now, but it's something for the future.


Improved unarmed strike, combat expertise, dode, mobility, endurance

IUS I agree with, Endurance I can probably be convinced of, but Mobility is actually decent on its own.


Heighten Spell for spellcasters, if only because I actually assumed that was how things worked anyway until recently.

Hmmm, I'll have to think through the implications of this.


whynotboth.png

A quick and easy way to do it is by category: light weapons can be finessed; two-handed weapons can be power attacked; and one-handed weapons can be eithered.

That would give some interesting advantages to one handed weapons.

[denthor]

Unless you like quite a bit of book keeping on a mage/wizard/cleric or sorcerer. Eschew materials. All 1 gold piece or less spells should just be assumed you have.

Example carrots for darkvision spell. Or multicolored sand for color spray.

[Celestia]

IUS I agree with, Endurance I can probably be convinced of, but Mobility is actually decent on its own.
Have it bundled with medium/heavy armor proficiency. It limits who gets it to only the ones who would make sense to get it.


That would give some interesting advantages to one handed weapons.
They certainly could use a boost.

[Kurald Galain]

If you're going to give dex-based characters Finesse for free, you should give str-based characters some combination of Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Dodge for free. Because otherwise there's not much point in being str-primary any more; people tend to overlook that dex is a much better ability score to invest in.

[liquidformat]

here are my 'free feats': weapon finesse, Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Brutal Throw, Power Throw, Combat Expertise, Power Shot, Deadey Shot, Run, Reckless Charge, Track, Investigate, Research, Darkstalker.

Here is how I have handled Weapon Focus, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Defense:
Weapon Focus
Prerequisite: Proficiency with said weapon.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. At Bab +5 and every additional 5 you gain a cumulative +1 bonus on attack rolls. (+2 at bab 5, +3 at Bab 10, +4 at bab 15, +5 at Bab 20).

Special: A fighter who takes this feat receives +2 to damage with said weapon at fighter level 4. At fighter 8 when using any melee weapon that has the damage type you selected, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus on damage rolls (additionally +20’ range increment for ranged weapons), this bonus can only be gained once for each damage type. An additional +2 to damage with said weapon at fighter 12. When fighting with the weapon that you chose for this feat, you gain the following additional advantages at fighter 16:

You gain a +4 bonus on all checks made to resist being disarmed.

You can wield your weapon against a foe who grapples you without penalty and without first making a grapple check. In this situation, you can take a standard action or a full attack action as normal.

When you take a full attack action, you can apply a +5 bonus to any single attack after your first strike.

Once per round before making an attack roll, you can instead choose to treat your d20 result as a 10.

You gain a +1 bonus to AC when wielding said weapon.

Levels that stack with fighter in order to determine what his effective fighter level is for feat qualification also function for increasing these bonuses.

Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6 (to -4/-4). If either weapon is light the penalty reduces by 2 and 4 (to -2/-2). If you have BaB of 6 and Dex 17 you may make a second off hand attack with an additional -5 penalty to attack. If you have BaB of 11 and Dex 19 you may make a third off hand attack with an additional -10 penalty to attack. If you have BaB of 16 and Dex 21 you may make a fourth off hand attack with an additional -15 penalty to attack.
See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack for more details.

Special: If a fighter or swashbuckler takes Two-weapon fighting or a ranger chooses it as their fighting style they gain +2 Shield bonus with an additional +1 Shield bonus with each iterative gained due to fighter, ranger, swashbuckler and tempest levels.

A creature with more than two arms may use two-weapon fighting and all feats that require two-weapon fighting to use weapons in all available hands. IE, Two-weapon Fighting replaces multi-weapon fighting.

Two-Weapon Defense
Prerequisite: Two-Weapon-Fighting, Dex 15, BaB +2
Benefit: When fighting with two weapons you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC. This improves by an additional +1 for every 5 BaB you have (+3 at BaB 5, +4 at BaB 10 etc). Additionally should either of your weapons have the Defending enchantment you gain +2 AC for every -1 on the enchantment bonuses instead of the standard +1/-1.

Improved Shield Bash
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Specialization (Heavy or Light).
Benefit: When making a shield bash you retain your shield bonus to AC. If the shield is being used with another weapon to attack as part of a full attack action, you take a -2 penalty on each attack. If you have 6 BaB and Dex 17 you may make a second shield bash attack with an additional -5 penalty to attack. If you have 11 BaB and Dex 19 you may make a third shield bash attack with an additional -10 penalty to attack. If you have 16 BaB and Dex 21 you may make a fourth shield bash attack with an additional -15 penalty to attack.

Special: This feat functionally replaces two-weapon fighting and can be used in place of two-weapon fighting to qualify for prerequisites while using a shield. This feat functions while using a heavy or light shield in each hand.

[Blackhawk748]

Have it bundled with medium/heavy armor proficiency. It limits who gets it to only the ones who would make sense to get it.


They certainly could use a boost.

That makes me like it better, let the Fighty types get it for free.


If you're going to give dex-based characters Finesse for free, you should give str-based characters some combination of Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Dodge for free. Because otherwise there's not much point in being str-primary any more; people tend to overlook that dex is a much better ability score to invest in.

Well Doge is already free, and while Dex is great, it doesn't translate to straight damage like Str does, so even with free Finesse I feel that the two are roughly even.


here are my 'free feats': weapon finesse, Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Brutal Throw, Power Throw, Combat Expertise, Power Shot, Deadey Shot, Run, Reckless Charge, Track, Investigate, Research, Darkstalker.

Here is how I have handled Weapon Focus, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash and Two-Weapon Defense:
Weapon Focus
Prerequisite: Proficiency with said weapon.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. At Bab +5 and every additional 5 you gain a cumulative +1 bonus on attack rolls. (+2 at bab 5, +3 at Bab 10, +4 at bab 15, +5 at Bab 20).

Special: A fighter who takes this feat receives +2 to damage with said weapon at fighter level 4. At fighter 8 when using any melee weapon that has the damage type you selected, you gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 bonus on damage rolls (additionally +20’ range increment for ranged weapons), this bonus can only be gained once for each damage type. An additional +2 to damage with said weapon at fighter 12. When fighting with the weapon that you chose for this feat, you gain the following additional advantages at fighter 16:

You gain a +4 bonus on all checks made to resist being disarmed.

You can wield your weapon against a foe who grapples you without penalty and without first making a grapple check. In this situation, you can take a standard action or a full attack action as normal.

When you take a full attack action, you can apply a +5 bonus to any single attack after your first strike.

Once per round before making an attack roll, you can instead choose to treat your d20 result as a 10.

You gain a +1 bonus to AC when wielding said weapon.

Levels that stack with fighter in order to determine what his effective fighter level is for feat qualification also function for increasing these bonuses.

Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6 (to -4/-4). If either weapon is light the penalty reduces by 2 and 4 (to -2/-2). If you have BaB of 6 and Dex 17 you may make a second off hand attack with an additional -5 penalty to attack. If you have BaB of 11 and Dex 19 you may make a third off hand attack with an additional -10 penalty to attack. If you have BaB of 16 and Dex 21 you may make a fourth off hand attack with an additional -15 penalty to attack.
See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack for more details.

Special: If a fighter or swashbuckler takes Two-weapon fighting or a ranger chooses it as their fighting style they gain +2 Shield bonus with an additional +1 Shield bonus with each iterative gained due to fighter, ranger, swashbuckler and tempest levels.

A creature with more than two arms may use two-weapon fighting and all feats that require two-weapon fighting to use weapons in all available hands. IE, Two-weapon Fighting replaces multi-weapon fighting.

Two-Weapon Defense
Prerequisite: Two-Weapon-Fighting, Dex 15, BaB +2
Benefit: When fighting with two weapons you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC. This improves by an additional +1 for every 5 BaB you have (+3 at BaB 5, +4 at BaB 10 etc). Additionally should either of your weapons have the Defending enchantment you gain +2 AC for every -1 on the enchantment bonuses instead of the standard +1/-1.

Improved Shield Bash
Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency, Shield Specialization (Heavy or Light).
Benefit: When making a shield bash you retain your shield bonus to AC. If the shield is being used with another weapon to attack as part of a full attack action, you take a -2 penalty on each attack. If you have 6 BaB and Dex 17 you may make a second shield bash attack with an additional -5 penalty to attack. If you have 11 BaB and Dex 19 you may make a third shield bash attack with an additional -10 penalty to attack. If you have 16 BaB and Dex 21 you may make a fourth shield bash attack with an additional -15 penalty to attack.

Special: This feat functionally replaces two-weapon fighting and can be used in place of two-weapon fighting to qualify for prerequisites while using a shield. This feat functions while using a heavy or light shield in each hand.

Well thats... a lot of stuff.

[liquidformat]

I actually kept Dodge and did the following:
Dodge (combined with mobility)
Prerequisite: 13 Dex
Benefit: You gain +1 dodge AC from any one enemy of your choice. For every 2 BaB you have you may select an additional enemy or increase the dodge bonus you already have by +1. The total dodge bonus to AC you gain from this feat cannot exceed your Dexterity modifier for each enemy.
You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against all attacks of opportunity. A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
Dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most types of bonuses.

Also Spring Attack was combined with its iterative feats and did the same with shot on the run. I actually have gone through most feats and played around with the function and did stuff like pulling a lot of Epic feats down since they really didn't belong there anyways.

here is my running doc for rule and feat changes (https://docs.google.com/document/d/12dLVHpJPajteMu2dW9zJc_spUCROeuXPAyMjjwX8iuY/edit?usp=sharing) I have even gone in and messed with action economy based on bab and messed with spell casting though those are not specifically related...

[Biggus]

There was a fairly in-depth discussion of this not so long ago: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?590679-What-feats-shouldn-t-be-feats&highlight=feats+that+shouldn%27t+be+feats

[Luckmann]

I'd decide arbitrarily based on classes and characters. Rogues, for example, should get Weapon Finesse, in my opinion, and I'd also give them Craven at some point; but I'd never give either to Barbarians unless you specifically pitch me some kind of Dexterity-based concept.

About the only ones I'd give to everyone as a blanket rule would probably be Combat Expertise and Power Attack, because I think those should simply be base functions of the system, and Point-Blank Shot, because that's just how things should work.

I also agree with simply combining some feats. Dodge and Mobility, for example, is a good merge. Spring Attack and Shot on the Run, too, have no business being seperate feats. I'd also remove Weapon Proficiency as a requirement for Weapon Focus - if anything, Weapon Focus should have Weapon Proficiency attached to it.

Endurance should be combined with Improved Toughness. Regular Toughness should be removed. Track should also be removed. It should be a Skill Trick of Search and/or Survival, if even.

[BaronDoctor]

Weapon Finesse (Dexterity-based melee says thanks)
Brutal Throw (Strength-based ranged says thanks)
Power Attack
Expertise
Able Learner (enables so many more interesting concepts and gives people more things they can do outside of combat)
PBS + Precise Shot (3.5 has a real hate-on for archery so here's my reversal.)

I also made the Big Six (Weapon, Armor, Shield, Nat Armor, Deflection, Attribute, Saves) innate "heroic" bonuses. My group had finished two years of Star Wars Saga Edition with me, so the idea of getting gradually stronger and being Just Better were familiar. Also means they go for more interesting magic items and come up with more strange solutions to puzzles. (They were basically Guardians of the Galaxy working for the Rebellion in the Star Wars game, if that says anything).

Also the game I'm running is in a setting where some people are just innately more powerful (Fire Emblem Jugdral) and they tend to become PCs.