(3.5) Help making a non magical priest class.

[booliusdoolius]

Hey all, I'm trying to make a priest class for a post apocalyptic book, no magic though because its supposed to be based around the real world, my friends and I are doing. So far, it has d6 hit die, light armor proficiency, simple weapon proficiency, skills (concentration, knowledge, heal, listen, diplomacy, profession, and perform), (2+int)x4 skills at 1st, (2+int) at each level, wizard BAB and saves. I need help making abilities that would be nonmagical, and I already have a couple, but I need more abilities. Thanks.

[EisenKreutzer]

The class could have bonuses to Diplomacy and Knowledge: Religion, and some abilities focused on spreading the faith through proselytizing.
Abilities focused on bolstering allies through prayer and sermons could work, granting morale bonuses to certain rolls like Will saves for example. Blessings could also have this kind of effect.
You could also mimic the healing aspect of D&D clerics by giving the priest bonuses and abilities focused on the Heal skill.

[booliusdoolius]

The class could have bonuses to Diplomacy and Knowledge: Religion, and some abilities focused on spreading the faith through proselytizing.
Abilities focused on bolstering allies through prayer and sermons could work, granting morale bonuses to certain rolls like Will saves for example. Blessings could also have this kind of effect.
You could also mimic the healing aspect of D&D clerics by giving the priest bonuses and abilities focused on the Heal skill.

Yeah, but I kinda want it's abilities to be based around which god it worships, like an evil god will cause the priest to get intimdate as a class skill or something like that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Expert NPC class, but with class features added? Maybe use Marshal in the Miniatures Handbook (also on WotC excerpts, but I’m on mobile).

[Afghanistan]

If I've ever needed a non-magical preacher or religious figure, I would go for Expert 5 / Evangelist 1-5 (Complete Divine).

I'd imagine that a Non-Magical Priest that you're looking for would probably just be a non-magical bard (just remove the spellcasting and you're done).

[Zaq]

What do you want it to DO, from a game perspective? What would be the attraction of being such a class?

Does it do skill stuff? Support stuff? Sounds like probably not traditional combat stuff, but what DOES it do?

If it’s not meant to be on the same level as PC classes, then yeah, the NPC expert class is about right.

[booliusdoolius]

What do you want it to DO, from a game perspective? What would be the attraction of being such a class?

Does it do skill stuff? Support stuff? Sounds like probably not traditional combat stuff, but what DOES it do?

If it’s not meant to be on the same level as PC classes, then yeah, the NPC expert class is about right.

It's supposed to buff characters who have the same religion as the priest and depending on which god they choose, they get different abilities, like if they get a good god, they get negotiator, while if they choose and evil god, they get persuasive.

[Zaq]

I agree with Biffoniacus, then: start with the marshal.

Note that the marshal is a very passive class that isn’t a hell of a lot of fun to actually play as written. It doesn’t recognize that players want something to do with their standard actions every round. The marshal at least has martial weapon proficiency and medium BAB (which, mind you, still is not good): your proposed chassis will have noticeably less than that, so as written, your priest won’t even be making meaningful basic attacks. That’s a problem. You’ll need to give them something else that makes them not be boring. (Also, the idea of getting Negotiator or Persuasive as bonus feats makes for a cute ribbon, but if that’s the scale we’re talking about, it’s ultimately just a minor ribbon and is not truly meaningful.)

You might consider pilfering some stuff from Spheres of Might, which is 3PP Pathfinder content. I’m not familiar with any specifics from it (I’ve glanced at it but never dived into it myself), but my understanding is that it aims to give nonmagical characters interesting, thematic, and useful tricks, so it might be a well from which you could draw.

If the class is focused on buffing and bonuses, remember the Rule of Bonuses: a bonus (or penalty) to a d20 roll only matters if it changes an outcome, which is based on how large the bonus is, how many d20 rolls it gets usefully applied to, and how meaningful those d20 rolls are. There’s no universally correct formula for designing around this principle, but I believe that it’s important to keep it in mind.

But yeah. Give the class something meaningful to do with its actions, remember that just getting a small bonus to a small number of d20 rolls is a poor use of actions, and be aware of the distinction between minor flavor ribbons and meaningful abilities. (Minor flavor ribbons are great, but never let them serve as a substitute for or crowd out the design space of meaningful features.)

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm goinna jump in on this as well, if you don't mind, booliusdoolius. This is something I have attempted a couple of times prior, but I have never gotten anything to my satisfaction. Largely, if I'm honest, because of the problems Zaq raised, int that I never really got an idea of what it ought to DO. So this seems like an opportune time to come to the discussion myself!



So, foir the sake or arguement, let me post up my last pass at it. This was a while ago, and I have't looked at it since, though now I've started porting Pathfinder class over to my 3.Aotrs, one feels that there might be something to be said for adding in a load of features akin to rogue talents or hexes or blade skills or something might be onee approach. Maybe it'll give someone some ideas, and if so, we can can all benefit.

As it stands, I think this would make an okay NPC class, but I don't think it... DOES enough to warrent being a PCs one. Nor am I terrible happy with it, but it's better than the first try, which was... Yeah. About the only thing moderately okay was effectively giving it a reflavoured evasion on the basis of piety, but I didn't even bother keeping that here!

(New thought as I'm typing - we have Evasion, we have Mettle, maybe this is a good place to have the Will save equivilent?)

Edit: You could probably nick and repurpose some of Starfinder's envoy class freatures, now I come to think about it.




PRIEST (wip)
Not all members of the clergy are clerics. Many of who serve their deities are do not have gift of magic. The priest class cover those servants, from the simple village preacher to the lay monk in a holy monastery. While the clerics tend more to deal with magical and often martial issues, the priests have a more direct concern with their flocks, and dealing with the people, dispensing wisdom and lesser healing among other folk.
Abilities: Wisdom is as important for a priests as for a cleric, though they do not cast spells; many of the skills they require use it, and indeed their role usually requires them to be the teachers and listeners, and to perceive what others may not, plus the strength of their convictions. Charisma is also important, as it directly affects their abilities to communicate and also to Turn Undead.
Alignment: Like clerics, most priests are within one step of their deities’ alignment.

Hit Die: D8

Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Any) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perform (Cha), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points per level: 8+Int mod
Starting Gold: 4D4 x 10
Starting Age: As Cleric.


\n\n\tLevel
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Reflex SAVE
Will Save
Personal Auras
Area Auras
Special


1st
+0
+2
+0
+2
2
-
Aura, Turn or Rebuke Undead, Pious Aura, Personal Aura +1


2nd
+1
+3
+0
+3
2
-
Blessings


3rd
+2
+3
+1
+3
3
1
Area Aura +1


4th
+3
+4
+1
+4
3
1



5th
+3
+4
+1
+4
3
2
Miracle Worker (2nd level), Personal Aura +2


6th
+4
+5
+2
+5
4
2



7th
+5
+5
+2
+5
4
3
Miracle Worker (3rd level)


8th
+6/+1
+6
+2
+6
4
3



9th
+6/+1
+6
+3
+6
5
4
Miracle Worker (4th level), Area Aura +2


10th
+7/+2
+7
+3
+7
5
4
Personal Aura +3


11th
+8/+3
+7
+3
+7
5
4
Miracle Worker (5th level)


12th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
6
5



13th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
6
5
Miracle Worker (6th level)


14th
+10/+5
+9
+4
+9
6
5



15th
+11/+6/+1
+9
+5
+9
6
6
Miracle Worker (7th level), Personal Aura +4, Area Aura +3


16th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
6
6



17th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
6
6
Miracle Worker (8th level)


18th
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
6
7



19th
+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
6
7
Miracle Worker (9th level)


20th
+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
6
7
Personal Aura +5

\n[/TR]\n



Class Features
Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: Priests are proficient with all simple weapons and light armour, but not shields.

Aura (Ex): Like a cleric, a priest has an aura detectable by the appropriate spell. Those priests whose alignment is opposite to the deities on the good-evil axis halve their level for this power.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): As the cleric ability. This ability is powered by faith, not magic talent (the magic comes direct from the deity), and so even the least servants of a god can perform this task.

Pious Aura (Ex): A Priest emits an aura of holiness about himself. This aura gives him and/or his allies benefits. The priest has two types of aura, personal and area. Projecting an aura is a Swift action. The aura remains in effect until the Priest dismisses it as a free action or a second aura of the same kind (personal or area) is projected. An Area Aura is dismissed if the Priest is rendered unconscious, dazed, stunned or paralysed; a Personal Aura is dismissed if the Priest is rendered unconscious. The Priest learns two personal auras at level 1 and gains more as indicated on the table. At level 3 the Priest gains an area aura, and gains more area auras as indicated by the table.
Both types of aura grant a bonus to rolls or other abilities. For personal auras, the bonus is +1 at first level and increases to +2 at 5th level and increases by one every 5 levels thereafter. Area Aura start at +1 at level 3 and increase to +2 at 9th level and every 6 levels thereafter. The Save DC (if any) for an aura is 10+half the Priest’s class level + the Priest’s Wisdom modifier.
Allies must be able to see or hear the Priest to be able to gain the benefits of an area aura. Creature of Intelligence 2 or less cannot benefit from an Area Aura.

Personal Auras: These affect the priest only.
Sanctuary: As the spell, but only affects enemies within 5’ per point of aura. This aura can only be projected by a Priest who can turn Undead.
Fear: Enemies within 5’ per point of aura of the Priests must make a Will save or be shaken as long as they remain in the area. This aura can only be projected by a Priest who can Rebuke Undead.
Persuasion: Bonus equal to the aura bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information and Intimidate.
Guidance: Insight bonus equal to the aura bonus to Perception and Search checks.
Resilience: Insight bonus equal to the aura bonus to all saves.
Protection: Bonus equal to the aura bonus to Armour Class (including touch and flat-footed AC).
Area Auras: Area auras have a 60’ radius and affect all allies within that range.
Bolstering: +2 Turn Resistance per point of the aura bonus to allied Undead (including the Priest if he is Undead).
Tranquillity: +2 Bonus to Autohypnosis, Concentration and Linguistics per point of aura bonus.
Courage: Bonus to Will save, morale checks and rally checks.
Divine Aim: Bonus to ranged attack rolls.
Divine Arm: Bonus to melee attack rolls.
Pious Aim: Bonus to ranged damage rolls.
Pious Arm: Bonus to melee damage rolls.

Blessings (Ex): At second level, the priest gains access to a number of Blessings. A Priest can use a number of Blessings per day equal to his Priest level plus his Wisdom modifier. Except where noted, a Blessing lasts for 1 day plus 1 day per five levels of the priest or until discharged.

Applying a Blessing is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. This is interruptible in the same manner as spells or spell-like abilities (the Concentration DC is 16). They require somatic and verbal components, and require the use of the priest’s holy symbol. Just like a verbal spell component, a deaf priest has a 20% chance to fail when using a blessing. They are not language dependant effects, but the target must be aware of the blessing and willing to accept it. If a target is not willing, the blessing fails.

Miracle Worker (Ex): Starting at level 5, with prayer and dedication in his faith, the priest can replicate the effects of some cleric spells. In order to do this the priest and the target(s) of the spell must be within an area sanctified to the priest’s deity (specifically Hallowed or Unhallowed depending on deity’s alignment). The casting time is 16 hours per spell level, minus the Priest’s level in hours to a minimum of 4 hours. The priest and targets pray or conduct ceremonies for 8 hours each day. If either miss a day, the process must begin from the beginning. Any material components or XP are not expended until the final day (and are thus not lost if the process is stopped).

The miracle effects are functional identically to the spells except for the casting time, and require the same materials or XP costs. These effects can be dispelled or suppressed like the spells they replicate.

Ex-Priests
Ex-Priests follow the same rules for Ex-Clerics.