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Hario
2007-10-15, 03:41 PM
I'm thinking about making a level 5 Archivist and wondering where I should align my skill points for, I maxed search (have 2 rogues but both are lvl 1 dips) and spellcraft. Which Knowleges should I put ranks in the most of? We have a bard, so I don't want to step on his toes with diplomacy (he's actually a bard/rogue/barbarian (sigh)).

PlatinumJester
2007-10-15, 03:51 PM
I'm thinking about making a level 5 Archivist and wondering where I should align my skill points for, I maxed search (have 2 rogues but both are lvl 1 dips) and spellcraft. Which Knowleges should I put ranks in the most of? We have a bard, so I don't want to step on his toes with diplomacy (he's actually a bard/rogue/barbarian (sigh)).

Knowledge: Religion
Knowledge: Arcana
Knowledge: Nature
Knowledge: Religion
Knowledge: Dungeoneering.
Knowledge: The Planes

Knowledge is the Archivists key skills.

Get the feats that let you use Dark Knowledge on various other enemies.

Saph
2007-10-15, 03:52 PM
Depends on the campaign, but for identifying monsters and general utility, Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (nature) are probably the best, as they cover the greatest variety of types. Knowledge (religion) takes third place.

At higher levels, when interplanar stuff starts to become common, Knowledge (planes) moves up in usefulness too.

- Saph

cupkeyk
2007-10-15, 03:53 PM
the collector of stories skill trick from complete scoundrel

Hario
2007-10-15, 03:53 PM
I would really want to expand the amount of creatures I can effect but its a mostly core game, I want to see how powerful dark knowlege is first, any experiences? is it much better than turn undead for clerics or so? (minus DMM cheese)

Archpaladin Zousha
2007-10-15, 04:06 PM
This probably isn't going to help much, but I always feel naked if my character doesn't have ranks in Knowledge (history).

Kurald Galain
2007-10-15, 04:25 PM
Whichever you take, it is generally better to specialize in one of them (or two if you have the skill points to burn) than to have equal low ranks in all knowledges.

Also, try to manage this with your party members to avoid redundancy.

In my experience, arcana and nature are the two most useful ones, but this does depend rather strongly on the campaign.

Jack Mann
2007-10-15, 05:28 PM
Arcana, religion, planes, and dungeoneering are the most important. Get knowledge (nature) if you still have skill points. Knowledge (nature) is nice, but if you don't have archivist of nature, it doesn't help you as much as the other knowledges do.

Saph
2007-10-15, 05:47 PM
Arcana, religion, planes, and dungeoneering are the most important. Get knowledge (nature) if you still have skill points. Knowledge (nature) is nice, but if you don't have archivist of nature, it doesn't help you as much as the other knowledges do.

Sure about that? Have a look at the creature types you can identify with Knowledge (nature):


Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin)

That's half the entries in the Monster Manual. :P Knowledge (nature) covers six creature categories; every other knowledge skill put together covers nine.

- Saph

RTGoodman
2007-10-15, 06:15 PM
Ideally, you should max out the four (?) that you use for your Dark Knowledge, and then pick up others. As others have said, Knowledge (Nature) gives you access to info about a bunch of different creature types (and is great if you pick up the Archivist of Nature feat that lets you also use Dark Knowledge against Giants and Fey).

Also, if I've got a character with a lot of Knowledge, I like to put some points in Knowledge (Local). It gives you info on humanoids, and can be used for a lot of other non-combat things that could come in handy (info about laws, traditions, legends, etc.). Also, for flavor purposes, Knowledge (History) fits well for an Archivist.

Jack Mann
2007-10-15, 06:33 PM
Sure about that? Have a look at the creature types you can identify with Knowledge (nature):



That's half the entries in the Monster Manual. :P Knowledge (nature) covers six creature categories; every other knowledge skill put together covers nine.

- Saph

But the other four knowledges actually power dark knowledge. Don't misunderstand me, knowledge (nature) is a good knowledge to have. For a wizard, say, it moves up the list. But it's much better if the archivist can get someone else to take it, unless he wants to spend a feat on archivist of nature (which only helps with giants or fey). It's nice to be able to identify monsters, but the other four knowledges can potentially give you and your allies bonuses against your enemies, or even stun your enemies.

Saph
2007-10-15, 07:47 PM
But the other four knowledges actually power dark knowledge. Don't misunderstand me, knowledge (nature) is a good knowledge to have. For a wizard, say, it moves up the list. But it's much better if the archivist can get someone else to take it, unless he wants to spend a feat on archivist of nature (which only helps with giants or fey). It's nice to be able to identify monsters, but the other four knowledges can potentially give you and your allies bonuses against your enemies, or even stun your enemies.

Fair enough. I've never played in a party with an archivist, so I don't know what works best in practice.

- Saph

Serpentine
2007-10-15, 08:29 PM
If you can get creative with their uses, things like Knowledge(geography) can be handy for getting an advantage in battle.

BardicDuelist
2007-10-15, 08:52 PM
Luckily, an archivist should have enough skill points. I mean Spellcraft, Concetration, Decipher script (maybe), and the rest is on knowledge usually. When you are an Int based caster with 4 starting skill points, you should have plenty of room (usually at least 7) skills.

0oo0
2007-10-15, 11:03 PM
Are the feats in the same book as the archivist? if not where might they be?

Jack Mann
2007-10-15, 11:15 PM
Archivist of Nature and Draconic Archivist are both in Heroes of Horror. Pages 119 and 122 respectively.

codexgigas
2007-10-15, 11:15 PM
Personally, I think dark knowledge itself is more useful than turn undead, because turn undead typically only sees real use in undead heavy campaigns. True, it can't be used to fuel divine feats (and their cheesy goodness), but the bonuses are nice, especially since an Archivist shouldn't have problems beating the knowledge check by ten or more after a few levels, which increases the bonuses.

As far as which knowledge skills to specialize in (and apply your lore mastery ability to), that really depends on your DM. Talk to him/her about what types of monsters you'll be predominantly facing, and boost those skill ranks. Knowledge: arcana is probably the most generally useful, since taking the Draconic Archivist feat expands is use to three creature types (magical beasts, dragons, and constructs). As far as the campaign mostly sticking to core, getting your DM to allow Draconic Archivist and Archivist of Nature shouldn't be a huge problem; after all, you've already gotten approval for the archivist class, and the feats are contained in the same book.

Still, you shouldn't hurt for skill points, so don't worry too much about picking the wrong knowledges. When I ran my archivist, I had maxed ranks in decipher script, search, concentration, spellcraft, and four knowledges (history [for flavor], arcana, religion, and dungeoneering). You're an Int-based caster who gets four skill points per level.