Waterdeep Disappointments

[Bjarkmundur]

I'm now into my 5th session of Waterdeep, and I'm quite disappointed.

This is the first extensive campaign module that I run, and I've learned that there's a great deal of difference to how it plays out on paper and in an actual session.

I just want to send this out as a warning, and this may not apply to everyone, that Dragon Heist is a mess. The setting is PERFECT but the storyline is an absolute nightmare. It's only now that the Alexandrian's Remix (https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/42918/roleplaying-games/dragon-heist-remix-part-7-how-the-remix-works) has been brought to my attention, and I wish I had know of this earlier. It's probably too late for me to switch between the two versions, so I'll probably run the adventure as written. If you haven't run this module yet, I REALLY recommend it, as long as you use the remix, or are ready to do some extensive rewrites.

This is based on my own experience, and probably doesn't apply to everyone. I only realized this after my group decided to not go into Gralhund, didn't think of going to House of the Inspired Hands AND has pretty much no reason to go after the stone whatsoever. I managed to improvise some interesting bits and changes on the fly, but I really shouldn't have to. The module has a chapter regarding what happens in the players don't go into the house, and it really didn't help. We did have a lot of fun, though, it was just a little stressful on my end. Most of the session I was trying to juggle multiple aspects and trying to make the storyline happen organically and without railroading. It worked in the end, thankfully.

- Bjarki

[Wildarm]

WD can go off the rails pretty easily. If that happens, it happens. Such is the life of an adventurer herder(DM). You've got a well fleshed out city. Lots of side quests and amazing NPCs. It's pretty easy to have the Factions talk to the group about what has transpired and have them try and intervene. Let the group play around for a bit and then reel them back in when the time is right(which it sounds like you did)

[Sigreid]

WD can go off the rails pretty easily. If that happens, it happens. Such is the life of an adventurer herder(DM). You've got a well fleshed out city. Lots of side quests and amazing NPCs. It's pretty easy to have the Factions talk to the group about what has transpired and have them try and intervene. Let the group play around for a bit and then reel them back in when the time is right(which it sounds like you did)

Well Damn. I'd talked myself out of getting it and now you tell me that it's got a well planned out city I can drop in my campaign?

To the OP. I find modules work as a list of potential encounters and locations and never work out as an adventure. There's a foundation to stand on while you wing it.

[EternalPrime]

The majority of the general city info in Dragon Heist is in Chapter 9 Volo's Waterdeep Enchiridion.
This chapter can be purchased from DMs Guild as a stand-alone (PDF) product without the rest of the adventure book.

When I ran this campaign, I drew heavily from the 1e "Waterdeep and the North" and the 3e "City of Splendors" accessories.

[Adar]

I just purchaised Dragon Heist as the next campaign for my group. I'm sorry you're having this trouble, and now I'm worried we'll have it, too! I'll be sure to look at the Alexandrian modifications.

Perhaps there are some resources that would improve your situation? I've noticed that there are a number of Heist resources available on DM's Guild. Here are a couple you might want to look at?

Dragon Heist Bundle (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/268461/Waterdeep-Dragon-Heist-Complete-DMs-Bundle-Guides-Maps-Adventures-and-other-Resources)
Waterdeep City Encounters (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/251816/Waterdeep-City-Encounters)
Blue Alley (https://www.dmsguild.com/product/252855/Blue-Alley)

I suppose it's a less than ideal answer that suggests you throw more money at a losing proposition. Apologies for that.

[Bjarkmundur]

I absolutely love the city. My problem lies mostly with the timeline and the NPC's motivations. The remix fixes all of this which allows you to make the whole thing flow much more naturally. A good story happens whether the players interact with it or not. A DM only controls the world and how it reacts to the PCs actions. If the PCs don't take any actions the world should still keep spinning. This is what I don't like about Dragon Heist; if they players disengage with the story it is just set on hold. Then the book gives you some instructions on how to railroad them back on track. I don't think that's a very elegant solution at all, but I've managed to work with (around) it.

But yeah, it's just the timeline that bothers me. The rest of the module is amazing. The stat blocks, the artwork, the enchiridion is all perfect.

[MaxWilson]

I'm now into my 5th session of Waterdeep, and I'm quite disappointed.

This is the first extensive campaign module that I run, and I've learned that there's a great deal of difference to how it plays out on paper and in an actual session.

I just want to send this out as a warning, and this may not apply to everyone, that Dragon Heist is a mess. The setting is PERFECT but the storyline is an absolute nightmare. It's only now that the Alexandrian's Remix (https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/42918/roleplaying-games/dragon-heist-remix-part-7-how-the-remix-works) has been brought to my attention, and I wish I had know of this earlier. It's probably too late for me to switch between the two versions, so I'll probably run the adventure as written.

How far in are you? I recall the Alexandrian saying that you could switch as late as the Fireball. Here's the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/WaterdeepDragonHeist/comments/d9k1tb/too_late_for_alexandrian/f1layzn/?context=3

[MilkmanDanimal]

I needed a few reads of it to make sure I could understand where everything was going due to it having different villains and a branching story structure depending on season, but I'm in the opposite camp, and I think it's a pretty great module. I did think the faction stuff was largely pointless, and didn't really add much, so I dumped it. I think it's excellent, and I've been having a great time with it. Granted, I'm very comfortable with improv and my players going off the rails, and have adjusted the story a bit to make sure they're moving towards an eventual conclusion, but it's not a bog-standard dungeon crawl so I think that's kind of expected.

[EggKookoo]

To the OP. I find modules work as a list of potential encounters and locations and never work out as an adventure. There's a foundation to stand on while you wing it.

Seconded!

I've been planning a DH run with my table, but it keeps getting pushed back because I keep adding to it. At this point the final game won't flow like DH much at all, except in the broadest of strokes (the PCs are in a city with a hoard of gold hidden somewhere, and are racing against other factions to get it). The "dragon hoard" is actually the property of a dragon now. The 500,000 gp isn't the goal, but rather one special magic coin buried in among them. And even the name of the city is no longer Waterdeep.

I'm similarly gutting Mad Mage. It'll be even less like the source material than my DH game.

[Bjarkmundur]

We've just defeated Nim's creation and are headed towards city of the dead for Cassalanter's Mausoleum. My party will probably investigate the Gralhund's, since they realized the Watch's report was not accurate, and the Cassalanters themselves.

Is there any way for me to go to the remix from here? If so, can I get a step-by-step?