The "Big Six"

[quark12000]

While reading about Pathfinder 2e, I came across the term 'The Big Six' magic items that a D&D character must have. I realized that my highest level character (9th level barbarian) has only one of these, a magic weapon. Has my DM been too stingy, or have I messed up somehow?

[Buufreak]

I was not aware that a weapon of any sort was part of the big six. What else does pf2 list?

[Afghanistan]

I was not aware that a weapon of any sort was part of the big six. What else does pf2 list?

Including the Magic Weapon:


Magic Weapon
Magic Armor
Cloak of Resistance
Stat-boosting item (headbands for mental stats, belts for physical)
Ring of Protection
Amulet of Natural Armor

[BWR]

Has my DM been too stingy, or have I messed up somehow?

The Big Six is not a rule, it's an effect of game mechanics focused on combat: stuff that helps you kill other things better (weapon and stat booster) and stuff that helps you avoid damage and deleterious effects (everything but weapon) tend to be prized. Basically, these are things many players get and keep upgrading throughout their career because it helps them survive and be effective in combat. Many people feel pressured into focusing on getting and upgrading these sorts of items. Some people consider this a bad thing and feel PCs should be able to do most of the killing and surviving without magical assistance, leaving the item slots open for more interesting gear.

As for your questions, we can't answer this. Perhaps the GM is intentionally being careful doling out magic because they want a setting with limited magic items. Possibly the GM is stingy, especially if NPCs and monsters have a lot more magic items than you for no good reason.
You haven't messed up unless you have gold and opportunity to purchase B6 items/loot them from enemies, are complaining about difficult fights and can't see how B6 items would help. So you're probably fine.

The thing to take away from this is that don't listen too much to theorycrafting, advice and complaints on forums. If you and your group are enjoying your game the way it is and other people say you should be doing something different, ignore them.
If any of you are not enjoying the game, then you can consider outside advice.

[Psyren]

The concept of the "Big Six" actually began in 3.5 (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a) and naturally carried over to PF. I wasn't aware it was still a thing in PF2 as I know nothing about magic items there, particularly which ones you should have at which levels.



The thing to take away from this is that don't listen too much to theorycrafting, advice and complaints on forums. If you and your group are enjoying your game the way it is and other people say you should be doing something different, ignore them.
If any of you are not enjoying the game, then you can consider outside advice.

This is sound advice. Do you feel squishy or that your attacks aren't connecting? Then maybe you're behind item-wise and you may want to check in with your DM, especially if they (or you) are new to the system and not sure you know what you're doing. If you feel fine, don't worry about it.

[BaronDoctor]

To a degree, it's things CR calculations assume and part of what wealth-by-level allows: the continued march of numbers going up.

The reason the Big Six get highlighted is because they're the six most common things to improve, the six most "boring but practical" upgrades people get most frequently. Neglect these in favor of something fun like the Rod of Ropes and you feel like you pay for it in combat.

If you have and use a weapon, you want it to continue to be able to hit. If you use AC, improving those numbers is important (and if you regularly do melee with a lousy AC and no mitigating factors like miss chance or hypermobility or absurd amounts of damage you'll learn the importance soon). If you don't keep boosting your saves...well, you start taking a certain disliking to every Slay Living, every Dominate Person, every high-DC area blast. They tell you you should have been boosting those saves.

In short, the Big Six are what let a lot of people keep playing the game.

If you find you're okay anyway? Well, either the GM is playing a different game (and if everybody's having fun by all means keep playing!) or you've been lucky and there might come a day you stop being lucky.

[Luckmann]

By lvl 9, it's entirely possible - I'd say downright probable - that one does not have all of these, depending on how loot is distributed/determined and how you spend your own cash. It's also entirely possible to completely ignore some aspects of this list depending on what class or type of character you are. The only thing I never see neglected is probably the +Ability Score and a magic weapon, but the latter only if you're some kind of Martial.

The intentional formulization of things like this in favor of the emergent gameplay aspects of roleplaying is part of why I'm not a huge fan of SF & PF2.

[Biggus]

I don't know about 2e, but in PF1e expected wealth for a 9th-level character is 46,000GP. Assuming you're somewhere near that, getting at least a +1 item for each of the six (or +2 for the ability score item) is probably a good investment, because you're likely to get a lot of use out of them compared to what you paid.

A +1 cloak of resistance in particular, as it costs only 1,000GP and a single failed save can be a disaster. The only reason I can think of not to get one is if you desperately need the shoulders slot for something else.

As others have noted, some DMs intentionally limit wealth and/ or magic, but if that's not the case it would make sense to get them if you can.

Edited as I realised some of the things I was referring to are 3.5 and probably don't exist in PF.

[Eldariel]

I don't know about 2e, but in PF1e expected wealth for a 9th-level character is 46,000GP. Assuming you're somewhere near that, getting at least a +1 item for each of the six (or +2 for the ability score item) is probably a good investment, because you're likely to get a lot of use out of them compared to what you paid.

A +1 cloak or vest of resistance in particular, as it costs only 1,000GP and a single failed save can be a disaster. The only reasons not to get one are either if you desperately need the shoulders and torso slots for other things, or if you have a friendly caster willing to cast Greater Resistance on you daily.

As others have noted, some DMs intentionally limit wealth and/ or magic, but if that's not the case it would make sense to get them if you can.

Of course, it really depends on what you're playing too. A caster can just keep Resistance up from level 1 so they never need resistance item and they hardly care about any of the others. Martials, now, you need those but you also need flight, teleportation, vision modes, tricks, and everything else your class chassis doesn't give you so it's a balancing act.

[Biggus]

Of course, it really depends on what you're playing too. A caster can just keep Resistance up from level 1 so they never need resistance item and they hardly care about any of the others. Martials, now, you need those but you also need flight, teleportation, vision modes, tricks, and everything else your class chassis doesn't give you so it's a balancing act.

This is true. As the OP mentioned their character is a Barbarian, I was answering in relation to that. A +2 Str item and +1 in all the others only costs 12,000GP out of their 46,000GP (or 13,000GP if they use a shield) so it still leaves plenty of money for other things.

[quark12000]

I was not aware that a weapon of any sort was part of the big six. What else does pf2 list?


I don't know about 2e, but in PF1e expected wealth for a 9th-level character is 46,000GP. Assuming you're somewhere near that, getting at least a +1 item for each of the six (or +2 for the ability score item) is probably a good investment, because you're likely to get a lot of use out of them compared to what you paid.

A +1 cloak of resistance in particular, as it costs only 1,000GP and a single failed save can be a disaster. The only reason I can think of not to get one is if you desperately need the shoulders slot for something else.

As others have noted, some DMs intentionally limit wealth and/ or magic, but if that's not the case it would make sense to get them if you can.

Edited as I realised some of the things I was referring to are 3.5 and probably don't exist in PF.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the Big Six was a thing in PF2. I was reading reviews of PF2 and they referenced that the Big Six was not necessary in that game. That made me curious about what the Big Six was, so I researched to find out.

The 9th level barbarian is in a 3.5 game. I'm not sure how much money he has, but it doesn't really matter since he's been trapped in the Temple of Elemental Evil for a good while now with no way to spend any money anyhow.

[quark12000]

This is sound advice. Do you feel squishy or that your attacks aren't connecting? Then maybe you're behind item-wise and you may want to check in with your DM, especially if they (or you) are new to the system and not sure you know what you're doing. If you feel fine, don't worry about it.

Oh, he's definitely squishy. AC of 16, so he gets hit pretty much every time anything swings at him. The saving grace is that he has 91 hp, so he can absorb a good bit of damage.

[weckar]

I look at that list, and find myself disagreeing. I'd take extra movement options or senses over +es in AC and attack any day.

[tiercel]

I always read the idea of something like “the Big Six” to be less “these are things you MUST BUY” and more “these are things you are likely to accrue via loot because they are generic treasure drops, cost-effective-boosting items, and while boring, probably worth more to keep than to sell at half price.”

[Psyren]

I always read the idea of something like “the Big Six” to be less “these are things you MUST BUY” and more “these are things you are likely to accrue via loot because they are generic treasure drops, cost-effective-boosting items, and while boring, probably worth more to keep than to sell at half price.”

The basic math of the game, especially for martial classes, assumes you have a certain amount of Big Six upgrades at each level bracket. Without them you'll be disproportionately hit by avoidable attacks, disproportionately miss all but your highest iteratives, and fail a disproportionate number of saving throws, even in CR-appropriate fights. They thus have a direct impact on your long-term survival and success.

This doesn't mean that you have to max all of them out at the first available opportunity, just that missing those upgrades for a while is a risk, especially in games where you're reliant on treasure and/or can't drop anything to revamp your gear at the drop of a hat.

[quark12000]

The basic math of the game, especially for martial classes, assumes you have a certain amount of Big Six upgrades at each level bracket. Without them you'll be disproportionately hit by avoidable attacks, disproportionately miss all but your highest iteratives, and fail a disproportionate number of saving throws, even in CR-appropriate fights. They thus have a direct impact on your long-term survival and success.

This doesn't mean that you have to max all of them out at the first available opportunity, just that missing those upgrades for a while is a risk, especially in games where you're reliant on treasure and/or can't drop anything to revamp your gear at the drop of a hat.

Seems like I'm in trouble then, as there is absolutely no way to acquire, much less "upgrade" any equipment, short of item drops in the temple.

[Psyren]

Seems like I'm in trouble then, as there is absolutely no way to acquire, much less "upgrade" any equipment, short of item drops in the temple.

Your GM can run games with little to no Big Six just fine, but they have to take into account the fact that you'll be weaker than expected. (Or they can give you the bonuses for free. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression/))